Author Topic: 1965-1966 Convertible Power Top Switch Question  (Read 1908 times)

Offline NEFaurora

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1965-1966 Convertible Power Top Switch Question
« on: December 13, 2017, 07:55:26 PM »
Subject: 1965-1966 Convertible Power Top Switch Question:

I've been throwing this one around for awhile in my brain... I've been wondering for awhile and maybe someone might have a clue as to why...there is constant power going to the '65-'66 Convertible Power Top Switch.  It's always got power to it... even when the car's ignition is switched off.  One would figure that a car manufacturer such as Ford would have the Convertible Power Top Switch wired to the "Switched" Ignition Key Power or ACC Power ONLY..... and NOT be Powered or have a HOT lead going to it when the car is off and the Ignition is OFF with the Ignition key removed....

Does anyone have any insight as to why Ford would do this???  This has ALWAYS Bugged and Bothered me!!  I've even though of maybe re-wiring it for "Switched" Power Only....it bugs me so much..

Is this supposed to be this way??? It seems really strange or are both of my '65 and '66 Convertibles wired wrong at the starter solenoid somehow?!??!???

Thanks Guys....as I look forward to the responses...!!

:o)

Tony K.


« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 07:59:11 PM by NEFaurora »
Tony Kovar (NEFaurora@aol.com)
1965 Mustang Convertible 200 cid 3spd manual
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Offline jwc66k

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Re: 1965-1966 Convertible Power Top Switch Question
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2017, 08:06:00 PM »
A couple of reasons:
- The top motor draws more current than the existing wiring to the ignition switch could handle, so it would require a special harness and special ignition for convertibles.
- The decision was to run a larger cable from the positive side of the solenoid, thru a fuse/circuit breaker and then the switch so the top could go up without a key if it rained. (Only convertible owners would know this, Fastback owners didn't care.)
Jim
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Offline midlife

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Re: 1965-1966 Convertible Power Top Switch Question
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2017, 08:51:11 PM »
A couple of reasons:
- The top motor draws more current than the existing wiring to the ignition switch could handle, so it would require a special harness and special ignition for convertibles.
- The decision was to run a larger cable from the positive side of the solenoid, thru a fuse/circuit breaker and then the switch so the top could go up without a key if it rained. (Only convertible owners would know this, Fastback owners didn't care.)
Jim
The man knows his stuff.  Excellent answer.
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Offline NEFaurora

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Re: 1965-1966 Convertible Power Top Switch Question
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2017, 09:34:55 PM »

"so the top could go up without a key if it rained."


Ok... I'll buy that...

Makes sense..... and if the answer is good enough for Midlife.....It's good enough for me!

:o)

Tony K.
Tony Kovar (NEFaurora@aol.com)
1965 Mustang Convertible 200 cid 3spd manual
1966 Mustang Convertible Sprint 200 C4 Auto
2007 Mustang Convertible V6 Auto with "Pony Package".
1966 Mustang Sprint 200 Registry Owner/Moderator
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Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: 1965-1966 Convertible Power Top Switch Question
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2017, 06:49:30 AM »
Another point to consider...in the pre-1965-ish period of time, it might be safe to say that 50% or more of the U.S., (geographically speaking), people didn't always remove keys from the ignition at all.
G.M. Actually offered in many models of cars a "keyless" ignition option that the driver had to choose to lock if they wished to.

Obviously, this presented another whole problem with Baby-Boomers of the day and vehicle theft of the mid-60's and beyond brought about changes including locking columns and locking shifters beginning to become standard equipment in 1969 &1970 for passenger cars and pickups only a few years later.

Changing times, we are once again back to "keyless" ignitions but a whole lot smarter cars with technology.

All to say, a power top, being optional equipment anyways, it wouldn't be any sort of security issue in the day those cars were engineered. 
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) GTA Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Int./Ext. Decor +many options

2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline MattDoscher

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Re: 1965-1966 Convertible Power Top Switch Question
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2017, 12:21:23 PM »
My wife's '65 Comet Caliente convertible is the same way.  I like being able to raise/lower the top without having to turn the ignition switch on.

Matt
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Offline bryancobb

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Re: 1965-1966 Convertible Power Top Switch Question
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2018, 12:58:50 PM »
OK...So you latched onto his least significant item in the list.  LOL.  The real reason is to allow very-heavy-gauge wire for the LOOOONG run to the thirsty motor without requiring a $500 Ignition switch.

"so the top could go up without a key if it rained."


Ok... I'll buy that...

Makes sense..... and if the answer is good enough for Midlife.....It's good enough for me!

:o)

Tony K.


 
66 Metuch Conv
Nightmist, Std Blu Int
6T08C223904    76A       K         22       15c     21      6        6
                      BODY  COLOR   TRIM    DATE   DSO   AXLE  XMSN
   C/O  785                                   (rotation #)
   16    C14   6T08C223904        (weld bay 16, bucked MAR 14)

Offline jwc66k

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Re: 1965-1966 Convertible Power Top Switch Question
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2018, 04:36:31 PM »
OK...So you latched onto his least significant item in the list.  LOL.  The real reason is to allow very-heavy-gauge wire for the LOOOONG run to the thirsty motor without requiring a $500 Ignition switch.
"so the top could go up without a key if it rained."
Makes sense..... and if the answer is good enough for Midlife.....It's good enough for me!

That's a $500 switch for roughly 14,000 convertibles with power tops (a $7,000,000 investment).
Jim
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Offline Bossbill

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Re: 1965-1966 Convertible Power Top Switch Question
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2018, 04:39:30 PM »
It would appear that the Lincoln division bought all those new fangled things called "relays" and didn't want to share any with its lowly cousin.
Very little else explains this or why the Mustang did not have a horn relay.

Then again the wife's MGA has two fuses for the entire car.
Bill
Concours  Actual Ford Build 3/2/67 GT350 01375
Driven      6/6/70 0T02G160xxx Boss 302
Modified   5/18/65 5F09A728xxx 347 Terminator-X 8-Stack
Race        65 2+2 Coupe conversion

Offline jwc66k

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Re: 1965-1966 Convertible Power Top Switch Question
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2018, 05:42:11 PM »
It would appear that the Lincoln division bought all those new fangled things called "relays" and didn't want to share any with its lowly cousin.
Cost. Mustang was originally envisioned by Ford and sold as an inexpensive car. It was part of Lee Iacocca's sales pitch to the top.
Very little else explains this or why the Mustang did not have a horn relay.
A "horn relay" was used on 1964 Mustangs. It went away as a cost savings measure (see above).
Then again the wife's MGA has two fuses for the entire car.
A country that has "boots" and bonnets" as part of a vehicle's description cannot be taken serious. Was there a circuit breaker in the headlight switch circuit?
They were cheap too.
I prefer a Bug-Eyed Sprite.,
Jim
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Offline Bossbill

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Re: 1965-1966 Convertible Power Top Switch Question
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2018, 06:59:46 PM »
Insert Lucas joke here.
The MGA even has a mechanical starter solenoid. A Bowden cable pulls the starter solenoid contacts into play.
I'm 6' 5", so Spridgets aren't even a consideration.
Bill
Concours  Actual Ford Build 3/2/67 GT350 01375
Driven      6/6/70 0T02G160xxx Boss 302
Modified   5/18/65 5F09A728xxx 347 Terminator-X 8-Stack
Race        65 2+2 Coupe conversion

Offline 67gta289

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Re: 1965-1966 Convertible Power Top Switch Question
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2018, 09:01:28 PM »
I worked for a company that was bought by Lucas.  Making a joke about them was earths for termination.

The company is known for multiple things, chief of which is the "prince of darkness".

But they were the first ones to invent intermittent wipers...and intermittent ignition systems, intermittent headlights, and so on.
John
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Offline Bossbill

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Re: 1965-1966 Convertible Power Top Switch Question
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2018, 02:55:54 PM »
Making a joke about them was earths for termination.

Are you positive?
Bill
Concours  Actual Ford Build 3/2/67 GT350 01375
Driven      6/6/70 0T02G160xxx Boss 302
Modified   5/18/65 5F09A728xxx 347 Terminator-X 8-Stack
Race        65 2+2 Coupe conversion

Offline midlife

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Re: 1965-1966 Convertible Power Top Switch Question
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2018, 06:15:47 PM »
Are you positive?
I'm sure he meant to say that making a joke about them was grounds for termination.
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Offline Bossbill

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Re: 1965-1966 Convertible Power Top Switch Question
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2018, 08:17:22 PM »
I'm not sure which emoticon would have helped, but all British car guys know that these cars specify "Positive Earth" or ground. Yes, the positive terminal is connected to the chassis instead of the negative terminal. The coil polarity is also reversed with + going to the points.

So now you can read my reply as "Gee Bill, that was a really clever play on words" OR "Gee Bill, you really have an odd sense of humor".
Bill
Concours  Actual Ford Build 3/2/67 GT350 01375
Driven      6/6/70 0T02G160xxx Boss 302
Modified   5/18/65 5F09A728xxx 347 Terminator-X 8-Stack
Race        65 2+2 Coupe conversion