Author Topic: Re: 1964 1/2 Draft Tube Usage/Application Discussion  (Read 556 times)

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 1964 1/2 Draft Tube Usage/Application Discussion
« on: April 12, 2017, 04:44:30 PM »
Is there any rhyme or reason as to what cars came equipped with the down draft tube/ closed valve covers? My June 64' coupe has the downdraft pipe and front timing cover oil fill.

Would guess the DSO of the car makes the difference even in 64

NOTE - Split from another discussion
« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 05:12:48 PM by J_Speegle »
Jeff Speegle

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Offline Hipo giddyup

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Re: Re: 1964 1/2 Draft Tube Usage/Application Discussion
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2017, 05:27:37 PM »
My car has a DSO of 26, Washington D.C., and was sold new at King's Ford in Essex Maryland around July 4th 1964. I am the second owner and had the original title in hand when I went to get it titled in my name. It has the date correct block, heads, intake, etc.. So it is likely that the timing cover, valve covers, and downdraft tube are original to the car. I never understood why some cars during this time had the down draft tube and others didn't.  :o
1967 Springtime Yellow Coupe, 289 2v 3spd, Metuchen built, Nov. 17th 66'
1966 Sahara Beige Coupe, 289 2v 3spd, Dearborn built, July 21st 66'
1964 1/2 Pagoda Green Coupe, 260 2v 3spd, Dearborn built, June 30th 64'
1966 GT350 Fastback clone, 289 HiPo, 725cfm Holley, 4spd, SanJose built, Nov 25th 65'

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Re: 1964 1/2 Draft Tube Usage/Application Discussion
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2017, 05:34:32 PM »
My car has a DSO of 26, Washington D.C., and was sold new at King's Ford in Essex Maryland around July 4th 1964. I am the second owner and had the original title in hand when I went to get it titled in my name. It has the date correct block, heads, intake, etc.. So it is likely that the timing cover, valve covers, and downdraft tube are original to the car. I never understood why some cars during this time had the down draft tube and others didn't.  :o

Do you know the DSO of the other car your comparing yours too? There were a couple north eastern states and Calif that had higher standards even in 64 that related to emission from my understanding. That and running changes in the early part of production are likely the reason for the differences
Jeff Speegle

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Offline Hipo giddyup

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Re: Re: 1964 1/2 Draft Tube Usage/Application Discussion
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2017, 10:38:03 AM »
No other DSO's I can confirm at the moment, but the example in this thread (AOW Mustang) sounds as if it was from Philadelphia (DSO 17 I believe?) and does not have the down draft set up. Maybe other 64' members will chime in with their DSO and configurations?

With running changes I tend to wonder if down draft set-ups were being phased out and "used up" on the Mustang production line as well as others, Fairlane, etc..?
1967 Springtime Yellow Coupe, 289 2v 3spd, Metuchen built, Nov. 17th 66'
1966 Sahara Beige Coupe, 289 2v 3spd, Dearborn built, July 21st 66'
1964 1/2 Pagoda Green Coupe, 260 2v 3spd, Dearborn built, June 30th 64'
1966 GT350 Fastback clone, 289 HiPo, 725cfm Holley, 4spd, SanJose built, Nov 25th 65'

Offline DM_1964

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Re: Re: 1964 1/2 Draft Tube Usage/Application Discussion
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2017, 12:04:38 PM »
Maybe other 64' members will chime in with their DSO and configurations?
Mine is a LA (DSO 71) car that didn't have the draft tube but the manifold wasn't original to the car so not 100%, the timing over is original and doesn't have  the oil filler tube.
Would like to know if anyone else with LA D code car has a down tube?
I sourced a correct date coded manifold and there's no attachment for it at the rear of the intake.
Regards,
Dom
64 1/2 Caspian Blue Convertible - Dearborn

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Re: 1964 1/2 Draft Tube Usage/Application Discussion
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2017, 05:14:04 PM »
Mine is a LA (DSO 71) car that didn't have the draft tube but the manifold wasn't original to the car so not 100%, the timing over is original and doesn't have  the oil filler tube.
Would like to know if anyone else with LA D code car has a down tube?
I sourced a correct date coded manifold and there's no attachment for it at the rear of the intake.

When was your car projected to be built and or the engine assembly date?  Would help narrow down the search and give us more details as we discuss the details
Jeff Speegle

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Offline krelboyne

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Re: 1964 1/2 Draft Tube Usage/Application Discussion
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2017, 06:11:46 PM »
Bob Mannel states that the change took place May 25, 1964, (June 1, 1964 for Comet). He mentions that the road draft tubes (called "non-emission reduction" systems) were installed where still allowed.
Scott Behncke - Carcheaologist
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1968 Cougar XR7 Dearborn 09A

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 1964 1/2 Draft Tube Usage/Application Discussion
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2017, 07:30:40 PM »
........ He mentions that the road draft tubes (called "non-emission reduction" systems) were installed where still allowed.

Not sure what that means  ::)
Jeff Speegle

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Offline jwc66k

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Re: 1964 1/2 Draft Tube Usage/Application Discussion
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2017, 08:18:39 PM »
Not sure what that means  ::)
It means that certain DSO's, also certain states and certain areas of states, did not require a PCV system for that time frame, or had implementation dates that were further out in time.
Jim
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Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 1964 1/2 Draft Tube Usage/Application Discussion
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2017, 08:31:32 PM »
It means that certain DSO's, also certain states and certain areas of states, did not require a PCV system for that time frame, or had implementation dates that were further out in time.
Jim

Guess he should have written "were still required"
Jeff Speegle

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Offline Hipo giddyup

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Re: 1964 1/2 Draft Tube Usage/Application Discussion
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2017, 12:04:34 PM »
I'm guessing Maryland was lax on emissions at that time period?? My car's build date was supposed to be June 30th, 1964. This seems late according to the info provided from Mannel's book, then again, unless they were using the parts up on cars going to states where these parts "were still allowed".  :o

Attached are some pics such as the door data plate (I still have the original plate if you need that pic) and engine/head cast dates and assembly date to show the time frame of my car.
1967 Springtime Yellow Coupe, 289 2v 3spd, Metuchen built, Nov. 17th 66'
1966 Sahara Beige Coupe, 289 2v 3spd, Dearborn built, July 21st 66'
1964 1/2 Pagoda Green Coupe, 260 2v 3spd, Dearborn built, June 30th 64'
1966 GT350 Fastback clone, 289 HiPo, 725cfm Holley, 4spd, SanJose built, Nov 25th 65'

Offline Hipo giddyup

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Re: 1964 1/2 Draft Tube Usage/Application Discussion
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2017, 12:06:15 PM »
Having some issues posting multiple pics... here are the others.
1967 Springtime Yellow Coupe, 289 2v 3spd, Metuchen built, Nov. 17th 66'
1966 Sahara Beige Coupe, 289 2v 3spd, Dearborn built, July 21st 66'
1964 1/2 Pagoda Green Coupe, 260 2v 3spd, Dearborn built, June 30th 64'
1966 GT350 Fastback clone, 289 HiPo, 725cfm Holley, 4spd, SanJose built, Nov 25th 65'

Offline Hipo giddyup

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Re: 1964 1/2 Draft Tube Usage/Application Discussion
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2017, 12:06:50 PM »
Having some issues posting multiple pics... here are the others.
1967 Springtime Yellow Coupe, 289 2v 3spd, Metuchen built, Nov. 17th 66'
1966 Sahara Beige Coupe, 289 2v 3spd, Dearborn built, July 21st 66'
1964 1/2 Pagoda Green Coupe, 260 2v 3spd, Dearborn built, June 30th 64'
1966 GT350 Fastback clone, 289 HiPo, 725cfm Holley, 4spd, SanJose built, Nov 25th 65'

Offline DM_1964

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Re: Re: 1964 1/2 Draft Tube Usage/Application Discussion
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2017, 08:40:05 PM »
When was your car projected to be built and or the engine assembly date?  Would help narrow down the search and give us more details as we discuss the details
Jeff, projected build date was 3/24/64, engine block cast date 3/19/64 (4C19)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 08:53:30 PM by DM_1964 »
Regards,
Dom
64 1/2 Caspian Blue Convertible - Dearborn

Offline FXguy

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Re: 1964 1/2 Draft Tube Usage/Application Discussion
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2017, 03:04:25 PM »
I have San Jose built 13G D code with San Jose DSO, PCV and hose from oil fill cap to the side of the air cleaner (closed emissions).  It uses the screw-on adapter for the oil fill cap hose attachment to the air cleaner.  My understanding is that the late May 64 change back to road draft setup was not implemented in California at all.   Tough call on actual build date since I don't have the build sheet, but the car has a very low VIN.

None of the 64 1/2 K codes got road draft tubes - I established with Bob Mannell that the rear of the intake mounted road draft tube interferes with the Hipo exhaust manifolds - in fact it comes down right in the middle of where the exhaust manifold outlet is.  (Bob has since made a change to the supplemental change notes in the his small block Ford book on this subject.)  In addition, the 64 1/2 K code used the C4OF BT carb according to Ford literature, but the late Jon Enyeart of Pony Carbeurators told me back in the late 2000s that he had never seen a C4OF BT.  I am aware of some early 65 K codes (including Fairlane) that have the later K code road draft tube mounted on the RH valve cover where the PCV would otherwise go, but they have the C5 hipo carb on them.

-Scott