Author Topic: Here is a hard one to figure  (Read 490 times)

Offline dearbornshow1968

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Here is a hard one to figure
« on: July 31, 2017, 07:06:44 PM »
I took this distributor out of a 69 428 4 speed Torino 15 or so years ago.  I think it is an over the counter replacement.  look at the pictures, The head of the distributor has #121217 and say motorcraft   NO OTHER PART NUMBERS  there is a part number on the shaft  It is not the typical 121217    It is a 12131A  and  ALMC     The vacuum advance say Autolite..   no other markings
  Can anyone ID this for me   I can't find it in the Ford books

Offline jwc66k

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3655
Re: Here is a hard one to figure
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2017, 07:29:14 PM »
It looks like the housing was tumbled which is a typical rebuilder technique. Unfortunately the tumbling removes critical details like the stamping around the "12127" that is the actual original part number. The housing itself is D0ZF-12131-A.
Destiny: a standby distributor; a fishing weight; show and tell.
Jim
I promise to be politically correct in all my posts to keep the BBBB from vociferating.

Offline dearbornshow1968

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: Here is a hard one to figure
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2017, 07:53:07 PM »
Not to sure that happened. Everything is pretty crisp looking. Other stampings and features would have been compromised if the  stamped part numbers got erased thru tumbiling  .  Not a fishing weight yet   Anyone else got an idea

Offline Bob Gaines

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4323
Re: Here is a hard one to figure
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2017, 08:37:12 PM »
Not to sure that happened. Everything is pretty crisp looking. Other stampings and features would have been compromised if the  stamped part numbers got erased thru tumbiling  .  Not a fishing weight yet   Anyone else got an idea
Regardless of if the stamps are vidable or not the fact that it is Motorcraft makes it beyond a shadow of a doubt as some kind of replacement when used on a 69 production car. It is a post 1971 production distributor. Because of that it does not have much disirability beyond Jims scenarios.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline krelboyne

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 678
    • West Coast Classic Cougars
Re: Here is a hard one to figure
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2017, 09:26:18 PM »
+2 above. Needs to be an Autolite casting with a specific Ford number, to be valuable. Just a generic FE distributor with the Motorcraft logo.
Scott Behncke - Carcheaologist
West Coast Classic Cougars
503-463-1130
1968 GT/CS 302-4V San Jose 05B
1968 Cougar XR7 Dearborn 09A

Offline dearbornshow1968

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: Here is a hard one to figure
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2017, 10:39:12 AM »
I understand regardless of value   What I am saying is this distributor was purchased and installed in the 428 torino . Is it a Universal distributor for all FE motors ??  Some how it was sold to this guy  The only ID on the distributor is the DOZF-12131A 18   If it was sold by ford after 1970, what would you use for a search to order this   The 121217 distributor application which is normally used to order is blank   What is this and who sold it  If Ford did how do you order it

PS...... I understand the box number may differ from the known part number   So if you ordered a 428 4 spd distributor you may find this in the box ????  It may be so   Has anyone else ever heard or seen this 

Offline Bob Gaines

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4323
Re: Here is a hard one to figure
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2017, 11:26:30 AM »
I understand regardless of value   What I am saying is this distributor was purchased and installed in the 428 torino . Is it a Universal distributor for all FE motors ??  Some how it was sold to this guy  The only ID on the distributor is the DOZF-12131A 18   If it was sold by ford after 1970, what would you use for a search to order this   The 121217 distributor application which is normally used to order is blank   What is this and who sold it  If Ford did how do you order it

PS...... I understand the box number may differ from the known part number   So if you ordered a 428 4 spd distributor you may find this in the box ????  It may be so   Has anyone else ever heard or seen this
Yes , I have seen it before. It is a generic FE distributor . Generic in that it is design to work on numerous FE applications. It is set up with a nominal advance curve that may not be specific for any given application but will work on many . I don't believe it has ever been stamped for identification because the trademark is too crisp to indicate it has been through a tumbler IMHO. I have seen other of these types of distributors identified instead with metal tags attached on the vacuum advance pod screw. Maybe the tag was remove on this one. They have been known to get in the way and cut skin .  It wasn't too many years ago that people were still getting these generic dist for trucks etc.. Maybe you still can. I haven't checked. I wouldn't be surprised if you could.FYI engineering numbers stamped on parts are typically different then inventory part numbers. There are other replacement parts that evolved over the years Ford to be more generic and fit more applications in the pursuit of less parts on the shelves. Carburetors comes to mind.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline Bob Gaines

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4323
Re: Here is a hard one to figure
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2017, 11:37:29 AM »
I forgot to add that if you wanted to order another and the metal tag was missing you would go by the application and not by the number on the tag (engineering number). Most parts are typically indexed (or st least easiest to look up) by application and not  by engineering or even by the part number. Just try giving a mfg part number to cashier at any of the big auto part chain stores. :)
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline dearbornshow1968

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: Here is a hard one to figure
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2017, 11:45:39 AM »
Hi Bob  I totally agree   It is probably a one fits all FE distributor    But let me ask you .. All FE single point distributors are the same   Where the difference is in the Vacuum advance.  So if this did have a metal tag then would the part number indicate it was setup (vacuum advance)  for a 428 4 speed  or whatever was needed would have a different advance and different tag number
   Just so you know   I looked for a part number on the advance. none was found   

Offline Bob Gaines

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4323
Re: Here is a hard one to figure
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2017, 12:13:24 PM »
Hi Bob  I totally agree   It is probably a one fits all FE distributor    But let me ask you .. All FE single point distributors are the same   Where the difference is in the Vacuum advance.  So if this did have a metal tag then would the part number indicate it was setup (vacuum advance)  for a 428 4 speed  or whatever was needed would have a different advance and different tag number
   Just so you know   I looked for a part number on the advance. none was found   
As I mentioned before it most likely has a generic advance too. It would not be optimal for a given application but nominal enough to work in many. This is at least what I was told by a local Ford parts old school manager/racer and Ford performance interchange master  :D ( Earl Blosser many years now retired) . I took it as a informed opinion. The vac advance pod on your distributor is a modern equivalent of the 60's version(first gen at least IMO)and wouldn't  have any number the would be relavent to the application. Most likely identification was on a metal tag that has been long since removed IMHO.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 12:24:26 PM by Bob Gaines »
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline dearbornshow1968

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: Here is a hard one to figure
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2017, 01:18:42 PM »
Makes sense.  Just want to know   Not sure what I will do with it   I have the ford dealers master parts books   I tried and failed to find a listing for a one fits all application FE distributor   you can for the C9AF-U carb 
   Thanks for your help Bob  You are probably right   

 Wonder how you got access to one of these...  How would you reference it and order it ???  Maybe thru auto zone or something    JUST DON'T KNOW 

Offline Bob Gaines

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4323
Re: Here is a hard one to figure
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2017, 02:58:32 PM »
Makes sense.  Just want to know   Not sure what I will do with it   I have the ford dealers master parts books   I tried and failed to find a listing for a one fits all application FE distributor   you can for the C9AF-U carb 
   Thanks for your help Bob  You are probably right   

 Wonder how you got access to one of these... How would you reference it and order it ???  Maybe thru auto zone or something    JUST DON'T KNOW
As I said before you would order one by application (back in the day at Ford) and that generic distributor is what you got. They did duel point Hipo distributors that way too .Those used generic vacuum advance cases and put duel points in them  with a metal cover over the advance arm opening . Metal tags identified those too. Yes, auto zone is one place I have heard others say sells a replacement version. Maybe there are others.  I know of a few people who order the Autozone generic versions to rob parts off of to help restore their vintage versions. Ford probably stopped selling the generic version over the counter decades ago  (I don't know for sure )and left it up to the after market to fill the need. I never paid attention to them because they were not usable in the generic form for what my interests require. They do not have much monetary value. As far as what it is good for refer to Jims legitimate although partially tongue in cheek suggestion .
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline svo2scj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 464
  • Car Collector and home to WHEEL CITY FAIRLANE
Re: Here is a hard one to figure
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2017, 03:11:20 PM »
Ford continued to service the Dearborn Marine (FE) and the Industial motors (360/361/390/428) WELL into the time of "motorcraft" castings.   There is just as good of a chance that this is a frankenstien (housing/advance) and that the original aplications aren't even car.

1969 R Code , Sportsroof (non Mach) W Axle
AB , Standard Interior  San Jose built 4/22/1969

Offline J_Speegle

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14543
Re: Here is a hard one to figure
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2017, 05:58:38 PM »
................ It is probably a one fits all FE distributor    But let me ask you .. All FE single point distributors are the same   Where the difference is in the Vacuum advance.............

Typically there are  differences in size/weight of the weights and rating of the springs also between applications originally 
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)