Author Topic: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???  (Read 6102 times)

Offline ruppstang

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2016, 02:18:54 PM »
If the rule was made for class CDT, I to wonder why it wouldn't apply to classes ODL, ODM and ODN. I haven't heard anything about the latter three. ??????????

Richard it was discussed for the Occasionally Driven classes but was decided not to change them this year. If Concours change goes well look for them to change next year. 

Offline mmsnyr8120

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2016, 02:57:42 PM »
ALL Concours Gold Card Judges should have been allowed to vote on this.  Not just a few people deciding.  Yes, Matt can tell the difference, but are you going to have him at classification?  Also, why do the judges have to hear about it in the magazine.  Couldn't the ANHJ contacted their Gold card judges?

Offline ruppstang

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2016, 03:49:31 PM »
I am only trying to help others understand what was done. I agree with some of your points but this is not the place to discuss MCA business. It would be best to contact the MCA head judges regarding your concerns.
Marty

Offline mmsnyr8120

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2016, 05:48:24 PM »
People don't respond well to the MCA website.  Plus I would probably be edited. 
Unrestored, Thoroughbred, and Concours classes are supposed to be the cream of the crop.  Owners try to preserve a piece of history. 
When we started, we were in BS class, then bettered the car and went in BT class.  PS class came around and at first people were skeptical.  Then the classes were changed to meet software requirements. 
I am not the only person that is disappointed with the change. 
We have spent plenty of time and money just like other loyal MCA members and veteran judges.

Offline Richard P.

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2016, 06:23:25 PM »
I am only trying to help others understand what was done. I agree with some of your points but this is not the place to discuss MCA business. It would be best to contact the MCA head judges regarding your concerns.
Marty
I seem to remember some lengthy discussion about this after the last MCA GN. Their were a number of members that voiced ours concerns about this matter. v

Offline mikeljgt500kr

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2016, 06:53:07 PM »
I

(but I guess that is easy to judge objectively and a good crutch to use instead of looking at technical correctness)
Mike this is a bit of a insult to us here on the forum who give our time to judge these events.
Marty

I didn't mean it as an insult, just pointing out things I have heard several times from judges who were not aware of all the correct technical standards and thus concentrated on cleanliness, can you say that never happens?  And I spend much time judging cars, but not at MCA, so I know the time and efforts it takes, but cleanliness is not something I search out and penalize for, since that organization does not focus on it.
I don't always downshift, but when I do it is near a Prius so they can hear me hurting the environment.

Offline ruppstang

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2016, 09:55:23 PM »
I didn't mean it as an insult, just pointing out things I have heard several times from judges who were not aware of all the correct technical standards and thus concentrated on cleanliness, can you say that never happens?  And I spend much time judging cars, but not at MCA, so I know the time and efforts it takes, but cleanliness is not something I search out and penalize for, since that organization does not focus on it.
I have only judged in the MCA. Cleanliness, Condition and Workmanship are a large percentage of the total points of a Concours sheet. Even a inexperienced judge should be guided by the information in the sheet. I'll attach a sample from a Concours sheet. Hope this helps you understand how it is done in the MCA. 

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2016, 10:00:28 PM »
Just as a historical point. The management of MCA Judging has oscillated back and forth through the years on how decisions  were made. Sometimes  there is allot of input and sometimes just a couple of people get a vote.  There have even been years where no open Annual Judges Meeting (Head Judge didn't want the hassle and figured we didn't need input) was held. One such meeting was held on a Mississippi river boat with about eight people in attendance. With other Head Judges input was much greater but in general it has had a fairly large range over the decades depending on the person(s) and the agenda.

In recent years little communication IMHO took place between the Heads and the Assistance's as to votes and opinions related to where MCA Judging was going. This was one of the main reasons I stepped down from my position of Assistant Head Judge that I had held on and off (a couple vacations in there) since the early 90's. Guess what I'm trying to say (again) is that in a volunteer organization, volunteers what to have at least the appearance of input and a hand in the direction the organization (or subgroup) is going.

Unfortunately IMHO (and stated publically a number of times) the MCA site, especially the Judges area, is under unitized and undermanned since its been open. Last post in the judging only area was July 28th of 2015 - Twelve threads in approximately five years.

A bit off thread but somewhat related to a side subject brought up. Wish it was better but many of us tried. Now back the regular subjects

« Last Edit: January 03, 2016, 10:48:32 PM by J_Speegle »
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline carlite65

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2016, 10:44:54 PM »
"In recent years little communication IMHO took place between the Heads and the Assistance's as to votes and opinions related to where MCA Judging was going."

i wholeheartedly second that assesment. leadership starts at the top.

"Unfortunately IMHO (and stated publically a number of times) the MCA site, especially the Judges area, is under unitized and undermanned since its been open."

i agree with this too.
5F09C331248

Offline 67158

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2016, 10:47:29 PM »
Just as a historical point. The management of MCA Judging has oscillated back and forth through the years on how decisions  were made. Sometimes  there is allot of input and sometimes just a couple of people get a vote.  There have even been years where no open Annual Judges Meeting (Head Judge didn't want the hassle and figured we didn't need input) was held. One such meeting was held on a Mississippi river boat with about eight people in attendance. With other Head Judges input was much greater but in general it has had a fairly large range over the decades depending on the person(s) and the agenda.

In recent years little communication IMHO took place between the Heads and the Assistance's as to votes and opinions related to where MCA Judging was going. This was one of the main reasons I stepped down from my position of Assistant Head Judge that I had held on and off (a couple vacations in there) since the early 90's. Guess what I'm trying to say (again) is that in a volunteer organization, volunteers what to have at least the appearance of input and a hand in the direction the organization (or subgroup) is going.

The MCA gives prior notice to any and all judges of its annual meeting. Advanced notice. It is your responsibility to attend. Communication has gotten way better in the past 5 years between ANHJ's and there teams. Bill W and the 69-70 class including Boss is a prime example. No stones left unturned with Bill and his Judges.

Unfortunately IMHO (and stated publically a number of times) the MCA site, especially the Judges area, is under unitized and undermanned since its been open

You are correct as most come to this site for help and answers. It is hard for all of you here to police all sites. I believe this is why this site was launched. Look above to communication of all involved.

A bit off thread but somewhat related to a side subject brought up. Wish it was better but many of us tried. Now back the regular subjects

Offline 67158

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2016, 10:49:47 PM »
Was unable to change color for my response above but I think everyone will be able to inturpret it.

Offline caspian65

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2016, 11:00:07 PM »
Going back to the original topic... something else to mention regarding trailering a car that is concours driven allows the owner more time to prepare the car versus someone that actually drove their car to the show.  This was actually one of the biggest reasons we split the classes.  If judges are being consistent in judging cleanliness, it would make sense that the car that was trailered would most likely be cleaner than a car that was driven.  Not even taking into consideration the possibility of a driven car being driven through bad weather or dirty road conditions.  It does not fare well for the driven car in this scenario.

While I'm all for making our jobs as volunteers easier, I'm thinking that there might be a little backlash from this decision.  I'm optimistic that there won't be, but based on past experiences, I'd be surprised if there wasn't any fuss.

I also feel that there should be more communication and that the judges meeting should not be the only place that recommendations and decisions are being made.  That's why when I was NHJ we switched from an annual judges meeting to an annual judges training.  If the NHJ/ANHJ, Gold Card/Certified Judges are all working together, communication should be happening throughout the year so that a consensus should already be in place on recommendations.  Unfortunately, immediately after I resigned, the old round-table judges meeting was put back in place... which in my opinion was a step backwards.

Charles Turner - MCA/SAAC Judge
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Offline 67158

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2016, 11:08:48 PM »
Charles
 I do agree with your last statement. The BOD made an effort to change this and make it a working meeting. Unfortunately that was undone mid year. The NHJ's have agreed to make this work for this year.
 Everyone here has a say in what happens your voice just needs to be heard. Heard before the fact and not after. I have made the attempt and will continue to but the entire community needs to become more involved through engagement wheather  attending shows and judging or attending meetings and seminars.

Jeff Mays
President MCA
« Last Edit: January 03, 2016, 11:11:43 PM by 67158 »

Offline caspian65

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2016, 12:14:54 AM »
Thanks for the reply Jeff, your feedback here is always appreciated.
Charles Turner - MCA/SAAC Judge
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Offline PerkinsRestoration

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2016, 12:18:20 AM »
Just as a historical point. The management of MCA Judging has oscillated back and forth through the years on how decisions  were made. Sometimes  there is allot of input and sometimes just a couple of people get a vote.  There have even been years where no open Annual Judges Meeting (Head Judge didn't want the hassle and figured we didn't need input) was held. One such meeting was held on a Mississippi river boat with about eight people in attendance. With other Head Judges input was much greater but in general it has had a fairly large range over the decades depending on the person(s) and the agenda.

In recent years little communication IMHO took place between the Heads and the Assistance's as to votes and opinions related to where MCA Judging was going. This was one of the main reasons I stepped down from my position of Assistant Head Judge that I had held on and off (a couple vacations in there) since the early 90's. Guess what I'm trying to say (again) is that in a volunteer organization, volunteers what to have at least the appearance of input and a hand in the direction the organization (or subgroup) is going.

Unfortunately IMHO (and stated publically a number of times) the MCA site, especially the Judges area, is under unitized and undermanned since its been open. Last post in the judging only area was July 28th of 2015 - Twelve threads in approximately five years.

A bit off thread but somewhat related to a side subject brought up. Wish it was better but many of us tried. Now back the regular subjects

[]Jeff, I agree a bit off Topic and not historically accurate either![/color]
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 12:21:04 AM by PerkinsRestoration »