Author Topic: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???  (Read 6113 times)

Offline Richard P.

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2016, 11:39:20 AM »
I've driven three early Mustangs up and down the East Coast from 1982 to present. I truly know what it means to drive a early Mustang to shows. I can say that if it wasn't for class CDT my friends and I with three early Mustangs wouldn't have attended the MCA G/N in Disney World or the MCA G/N in Columbus, Ohio with five early Mustangs. I mentioned earlier that a discussion about this took place online shortly after the last G/N in Columbus. I voiced my concerns and opinion at that time. Perhaps I'm not reading this correctly but it appears that the decisions about the class was already made. If that's the case why ask for input?

Offline caspian65

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2016, 11:52:24 AM »
Rich, the start of this topic was asking if the CDT class had been removed and Marty confirmed it had.  Although, he also stated that trailered cars would still be allowed in Concours Driven, just that they would have to show signs of actually being a normal driven car.  Seems to be more of a consolidation of classes, although as I mentioned in a couple posts, there may be some folks not happy with this.
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Offline Richard P.

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2016, 12:11:45 PM »
Charles the first mention of eliminating the CDT class was a e-mail dated September 24, 2015. I still have that e-mail. I questioned at that time who, when and where the decision was made? It was unclear at that time if a proposal of this nature required approval of the MCA BOD. I haven't seen anything from the last meeting so I'm not sure what took place. It sounded to me like the decision was already made.   

Offline mmsnyr8120

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2016, 12:20:06 PM »
My first reaction at hearing the news was "how many early cars will show up to be judged?"  Sometimes there are only 5 early cars in concours classes.  Yes, Ohio, was a big show and so was Orlando.  But sometimes that is not the norm.  Laurie put on a fantastic show in Tucson but not many early cars.  Even though we are not showing our car anymore, we still enjoy going to the shows for Matt to judge.  And see all the wonderful people we have met over the years that we would never had met if not for MCA.

Offline caspian65

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2016, 02:23:12 PM »
Charles the first mention of eliminating the CDT class was a e-mail dated September 24, 2015. I still have that e-mail. I questioned at that time who, when and where the decision was made? It was unclear at that time if a proposal of this nature required approval of the MCA BOD. I haven't seen anything from the last meeting so I'm not sure what took place. It sounded to me like the decision was already made.

Ah, understand now, thanks.
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Offline Hawkeye

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2016, 06:32:11 PM »
Richard it was discussed for the Occasionally Driven classes but was decided not to change them this year. If Concours change goes well look for them to change next year.
This is one area that confuses me.  My car ('64 1/2) is driven, occasionally, during the good months, but for me to get it to Indy (which I'm planning and registered for), I'm planning on putting it on a trailer, mostly because I can't drive anything for more than a couple hours without cruise control because of a hip that keeps complaining to me that it needs to be replaced.  And because I'm more confident that my Jeep can make the 4.5 hour drive without a major or minor mechanical problem.  So, will this put me in the trailered class, even tho it's only for safety and convenience?  I think of the trailered class for those cars that are never driven.  And I know there's no judging in Indy next year, but since I'm not expecting a show close enough to actually drive to, I will go to future shows the same way.
To the poster who can drive 1500 miles to a show, you sir, are my hero.  Wish I could.  My car has been driven thru everything imaginable back when it was my only ride (even had to put snow chains on it one day in Cali or risk a ticket).

Offline 67gta289

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2016, 08:16:14 PM »
So, will this put me in the trailered class
I don't think that this assumption is correct.

My understanding (always subject to correction) is that a car classified as trailered is rarely, if ever, driven much more than a limited amount in very controlled conditions.  This might also even include not being started, no water in the W/S washer reservoir, etc.

A car classified as driven can be trailered a long distance to a show, but it should show signs of being driven.  There are plenty of indicators for this.

Stated another way, a car that is driven for pleasure around town, then trailered a long distance to a show, is driven, not trailered.
John
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Offline BobV

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2016, 09:47:06 PM »
So, will this put me in the trailered class, even tho it's only for safety and convenience?  I think of the trailered class for those cars that are never driven. 
I don't think that this assumption is correct.

My understanding (always subject to correction) is that a car classified as trailered is rarely, if ever, driven much more than a limited amount in very controlled conditions.  This might also even include not being started, no water in the W/S washer reservoir, etc.

A car classified as driven can be trailered a long distance to a show, but it should show signs of being driven.  There are plenty of indicators for this.

Stated another way, a car that is driven for pleasure around town, then trailered a long distance to a show, is driven, not trailered.

I agree with your assessment, based on what was said earlier:
I can confirm CDT is gone. It's not bad. All driven cars will be in Concours driven whether driven to the show or trailered. They will have to show real signs of being real driven cars at check in. In the past CDA, CDB, CDC.... and CDT were judged just the same and since the cars are judged against a standard and not head to head it will still be fair to put them in the same class. It will greatly simplify things in the tally room and for the assistant head judges. It was also a bit confusing at the awards ceremony for cars from several generations being given awards in the same class.
We would welcome you thoughts and comments on this change at mustang.org
Marty
Maybe I'm thick-headed, but I'm not seeing what the big deal is. If you were Concours Driven Trailered before, you're now just in the Concours Driven class appropriate for your car, regardless of how you got it there... Your car just needs to show signs (odometer or other) that it actually DOES get street driven.

As someone who always DRIVES his CD car (and spends hours & hours cleaning), I'd personally rather see the trailered cars go in Concours Trailered, but that's NOT what at all I'm reading this change to be. I'm fine with it anyway, as we're really just competing against ourself, not others.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2016, 09:51:58 PM by BobV »
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Offline caspian65

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2016, 12:48:18 AM »
As someone who always DRIVES his CD car (and spends hours & hours cleaning), I'd personally rather see the trailered cars go in Concours Trailered, but that's NOT what at all I'm reading this change to be. I'm fine with it anyway, as we're really just competing against ourself, not others.

Bob, it actually can affect the outcome of the judging of your car.  Say I have 4 cars to judge in concours driven, 2 are trailered to the show, 2 others driven.  One of the cars was driven through rain on the way to the show.  The 2 trailered cars, although typically driven, are prepared and cleaned days/weeks before the show and then transported in an enclosed trailer.

If the judging team starts with the trailered car, they're probably not going to find many cleanliness issues.  Next car is the one driven through the rain.  It's probably going to have surface rust showing underneath, dirty wheel wells, etc...  I really do not see how a judging team can be consistent in a class of cars like this.  It doesn't seem like a very fair playing field when considering this scenario.  Like it or not, the cleanliness of cars in a class can affect the overall scores of others in the class.
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Offline Hawkeye

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2016, 10:08:02 AM »
I don't think that this assumption is correct.

My understanding (always subject to correction) is that a car classified as trailered is rarely, if ever, driven much more than a limited amount in very controlled conditions.  This might also even include not being started, no water in the W/S washer reservoir, etc.

A car classified as driven can be trailered a long distance to a show, but it should show signs of being driven.  There are plenty of indicators for this.

Stated another way, a car that is driven for pleasure around town, then trailered a long distance to a show, is driven, not trailered.
That would be my guess as well, but I've seen it explained differently somewhere else.  I suppose this may not be an issue next year anyway, so I can worry about figuring it out then if the class still exists.
Thanks for the input, at least my thinking isn't totally off base.

Offline BobV

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2016, 11:28:47 AM »
Bob, it actually can affect the outcome of the judging of your car.  Say I have 4 cars to judge in concours driven, 2 are trailered to the show, 2 others driven.  One of the cars was driven through rain on the way to the show.  The 2 trailered cars, although typically driven, are prepared and cleaned days/weeks before the show and then transported in an enclosed trailer.

If the judging team starts with the trailered car, they're probably not going to find many cleanliness issues.  Next car is the one driven through the rain.  It's probably going to have surface rust showing underneath, dirty wheel wells, etc...  I really do not see how a judging team can be consistent in a class of cars like this.  It doesn't seem like a very fair playing field when considering this scenario.  Like it or not, the cleanliness of cars in a class can affect the overall scores of others in the class.

I agree 100% that it CAN...
However, my experience has actually been the opposite. I always make sure in the introductions that I let the judges know "We drove  this car 700 miles to be here, and 150 of that was in the rain". Of course, I bust my ass to have the car CLEAN (washed 3X at Loveland), and get the presentation "right". Yes, they may find a few things, but I think most good judges DO tend to give a you a little break if they find surface rust on a tie rod IF they know you DROVE and the rest of the car is up to snuff. 2 of my last 3 shows involved rain driving, and the other had night driving (BUGS everywhere!). And, 2 of those 3 shows, the judges have specifically stated afterwards that they were shocked the car was driven.

Wheelwells are a part of the cleaning process. I don't care if you drove or not, there's no reason they can't be clean, much like bugs in the radiator - where there's a will, there's a way. Same with wheels & tires.

I've seen many issues with trailered cars that "drive" :P me crazy. Just because it WAS clean a month ago when put back in the trailer at the last show, doesn't mean it's clean today. I'm always amazed at the dust and cobwebs I see on a car being presented. IMHO, you can't push it out of the trailer 5 minutes before judging and "be ready"... Work needs to be done there, and the fact you trailered it is no more an excuse than the fact someone else drove. ...and don't get me started on open trailers. Sometimes that's worse than driving! Maybe we should separate open vs closed trailered too. (THAT'S a JOKE!  ;D)

With the layout of the CD judging sheet, by the time they get to the undercarriage, the decision is pretty well made, anyway.  ;)
Of course, the undercarriage isn't AS BIG of an issue on mine, as how DO you see under this  ;D ?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 11:32:19 AM by BobV »
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Offline Laurie S.

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Re: MCA getting rid of Concours Driven Trailered class???
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2016, 03:26:26 PM »
Although my 68 coupe has been Conservator class for 10 years now and travels in an enclosed trailer, I still clean it as though I had driven it to the show.  I spend about 8 hours detailing the car before loading it into the trailer, and another couple hours cleaning after it is at the show.  I don't have to do any of that, because the car always is clean, but I enjoy doing it and making the car looks its best.

I remember judging trailered concours at Mustang, Oklahoma several years ago and told the owner I would give him 5 minutes to remove the cobwebs from his front suspension.   I didn't even have to get on the ground to see them, they were that bad.  He insisted the car was clean and did nothing despite my warning.  He lost a lot of cleanliness points.  The car looked great from the top of the tires up, and pretty darn bad underneath.


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