Author Topic: frustrating phospate and oil bolt and hardware  (Read 11110 times)

Offline argreenheads

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
  • 479-597-9279
Re: frustrating phospate and oil bolt and hardware
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2015, 06:01:18 PM »
Ok.. here update just incase someone needs this info. Fyi. Learn from my mistakes.  I took everyone's suggestion and re did all the bolt and hardware including my hood hinges, tower caps, and ect. This Time I used an electric cooker and distilled water.  All parts came out beautifully and perfectly coded. I really dont think the cooker made then difference but I do think using distilled water rather than tap water was the ticket.  Of coarse here in arkansas we just got running water a few years back and its probably not the purest you ve ever tasted. Lol.. I woild definitely recommend using distilled water unless u like to media blast everything twice.  Hope I prevent someone else from making this mistake.
1969 Mustang Sportsroof GT 351w, NJ built, Black Jade w/ Gold GT stripe, black standard interior..

Offline CharlesTurner

  • Charles Turner
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7614
Re: frustrating phospate and oil bolt and hardware
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2015, 07:00:35 PM »
Thanks for the follow up.
Charles Turner - MCA/SAAC Judge
Concours Mustang Forum Admin

Offline sportyworty

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 193
Re: frustrating phospate and oil bolt and hardware
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2015, 01:16:09 PM »
Stainless Steel Vessels and Distilled water are imperative, learned the hard way. I wipe with Acetone before oil as well

Offline J_Speegle

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24177
Re: frustrating phospate and oil bolt and hardware
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2015, 05:16:44 PM »
Stainless Steel Vessels and Distilled water are imperative, learned the hard way. I wipe with Acetone before oil as well

+1 Plus keep the oiling very separate from the plating process - Or you'll be starting over and making another batch for the bath

Another lesson learned the hard way :(
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline jwc66k

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7099
Re: frustrating phospate and oil bolt and hardware
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2015, 08:39:09 PM »
Stainless Steel Vessels and Distilled water are imperative, learned the hard way. I wipe with Acetone before oil as well
Yes, stainless steel "everything" is mandatory. I use Hetch Hetchy Reservoir water from the Sierras with the normal chlorine added with no problems for both cooking and rinsing for me. The PH is close to neutral. I've found air drying is the best method to dry everything. A little wind helps, nothing else. From there, everything get sprayed with WD-40. The only problem area was hood hinge joints but flushing them with WD-40 cleans them up nice.
Jim
I promise to be politically correct in all my posts to keep the BBBB from vociferating.

Offline djburton

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: frustrating phospate and oil bolt and hardware
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2015, 12:47:52 PM »
Been going over this thread and...are we talking about the same process for the hood hinges,latch, etc as we are bolts? I don't recall a whole lot of bolts that call for a zinc phosphate coating. Most are cad or zinc electro plated or black oxide. Anyway,my zinc phosphate method....A 5 gal(or bigger) plastic bucket works fine.Get one with a lid.Mix your solution with distilled water per directions and bring up to correct temp with a common bucket heater found at any farm and home type store. Bead blast the previously degreased piece and then scrub it good with hot water and a good cleaner.Krud Kutter is the best I've found. Rince thoroughly with hot water and imediately put in the solution when still wet.Watch the part and remove as soon as the desired darkness is achieved.Rince again in hot water and dry with a heat gun.Spray with WD when still hot and you're done.Do it outside as you don't want silicon all over your car,especially if it isn't painted yet.Put the lid on the bucket after it cools.The solution lasts for years.
Black oxide on bolts...Blast clean and wire wheel the blasting haze off.Mix solution as directed in a plastic or glass container with lid.Scrub bolts good and rince,place in a plastic cup and pour solution over bolts till submerged,3,4 minutes is good.Pour solution back in container and rinse bolts thoroughly.Dry with heat gun and spray with WD when still hot.

Offline J_Speegle

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24177
Re: frustrating phospate and oil bolt and hardware
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2015, 05:27:17 PM »
Been going over this thread and...are we talking about the same process for the hood hinges,latch, etc as we are bolts? I don't recall a whole lot of bolts that call for a zinc phosphate coating. Most are cad or zinc electro plated or black oxide. .........

Depends on the year your working on ;)

Restorers and platters often use different terms (often just based on the look rather than the correct name for the plating) so it can get confusing. Can't think of allot of things or bolts specifically that were "black oxide" Allot of what we do today in zinc was cad originally due to local availability and regulations as well as the legal stuff
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline OldMustangGuy

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
Re: frustrating phospate and oil bolt and hardware
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2016, 09:26:02 PM »
I've been following this thread as well as others regarding techniques for phosphating. With a lot of good information from this Forum I embarked on my own DIY phosphate journey. After a few fits and starts I've gotten pretty happy with the process....as others have said, it's best to use distilled water, absolutely clean stainless steel pots or tanks and, one thing I've started doing, is to air blast the parts dry rather than wiping or letting them dry naturally. I also think the final product looks better with a 24 hour soak in oil followed rather than spraying with WD-40...just a personal choice. Following the oil bath, I hit everything with Boe Shield.  At any rate, here's a shot of a set of hood hinges for a 68 GT350 that I'm doing. It took a couple of tries to perfect the process but I don't think they look too bad...

Offline carlite65

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2362
Re: frustrating phospate and oil bolt and hardware
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2016, 09:57:02 PM »
great start but don't forget to detail the rivet heads.
5F09C331248

Offline OldMustangGuy

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
Re: frustrating phospate and oil bolt and hardware
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2016, 10:25:09 PM »
Oh yeah...there's some clean up to do...that's easy...I was just happy to get this far!

Offline Bob Gaines

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 8956
Re: frustrating phospate and oil bolt and hardware
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2016, 12:29:30 AM »
I would suggest drying off with a towel first and finish with air gun drying . I have noticed if I use the air gun to completely dry large parts like hinges from the start to finish that they have a tendency to ever so slightly have a tinge of flash rust effect. I stopped having  that look when I changed procedure to towel drying the heavy moisture and finished with the air gun. Just my experience others may have different.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline OldMustangGuy

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
Re: frustrating phospate and oil bolt and hardware
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2016, 02:13:28 AM »
That's a good tip Bob...I probably accidentally did that by wrapping the parts in towels to carry them over to an air hose. I did find with previous experimentation that just air drying the pieces by hanging them could sometimes result in some discoloration across the piece which is why I went the other way.

Offline WT8095

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 940
  • Dave Z.
Re: frustrating phospate and oil bolt and hardware
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2016, 09:19:16 AM »
Here's a couple of techniques that we use when cleaning components for medical devices:

1) After your final water rinse, rinse the parts or immerse in isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol). The alcohol will absorb small amounts of water that remain, and in turn will evaporate more quickly during drying. You should use 90% IPA or better, as lower concentrations will not absorb as much water. This step is especially helpful for pieces or assemblies that have small gaps. Water is drawn into the gaps by capillary action and can be very difficult to dry thoroughly.

2) Heat the parts while drying. Even 100-120 is sufficient to increase the rate of evaporation - you don't have to get to the boiling point of water or alcohol. An oven can be used, or a heat gun, or a hand dryer like you see in public restrooms. A small portable heater with a fan would probably work nicely too.

For best results, use both steps. Carbon steel is still very vulnerable even when thoroughly dried, so it should be coated as quickly as possible with whatever finish you're applying. If you can't process them right away, they should be stored in a container with dessicant.
Dave Z.

'68 fastback, S-code + C6. Special Paint (Rainbow promotion), DSO 710784. Actual build date 2/7/1968, San Jose.
'69 Cougar convertible, 351W-2V + FMX, Meadowlark Yellow.

Offline J_Speegle

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24177
Re: frustrating phospate and oil bolt and hardware
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2016, 03:50:34 PM »
Congraduations  for attempting the process and making headway. Now for just a little fine tuning. You'll find that most of us continue to experiment with different process to see if we can improve, speed up or as unfortunately it happens, replace an older product that is no longer available.   
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline 1969 Cale II

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
Re: frustrating phospate and oil bolt and hardware
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2016, 10:24:37 PM »
About the flash rust problem, have you tried rinsing them in a soda ash ( baking soda ) to neutralize the acid, then dry?
When I strip parts in acid for plating or after a bath in Prep Etch ( makes really nice black bolts/screws ) I rinse in soda bath then rinse and dry. Stops my rust issues. Just rinsing in water doesn't get all the acid off. My experience the swimming pool biz helped me with this problem