ConcoursMustang Forums

Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Body, Paint & Sealers => Topic started by: J_Speegle on July 18, 2009, 02:36:34 AM

Title: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: J_Speegle on July 18, 2009, 02:36:34 AM
PROJECT: Replacement or Repair of Factory Sound Deadener and Spray-on Sealer

TIME: Depends on the amount of surface and condition

SUPPLIES:

- Assorted rags for clean up
- Paint sticks and putty knife for applying and spreading
- Paint brushes 1" -4"
- Mixing bucket
- One gallon of Spectrum Sludge and activator (amount depends on the size of the task)
- Spray can or appropriate spray gun with paintable sound dead or undercoating (3M or Wurth)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Years ago there were many good choices when it came to products for reproducing the original look and consistency of factory sound deadener and seam sealer (the sprayed on uses). Recently, choices have become limited as most products are difficult to build up as each coat dissolves the earlier ones. So many show cars have only a light coat of spray sound deadener, not very reflective of what originally was there.  During a recent restoration the shop ran across a product made for other purposes that showed promise. We purchase some and started playing with it to see if it would fit our needs.

The product is a two part water based goo (once mixed it has a consistency of peanut butter) that we could  built up to more than ¼” in thickness, dries to a fairly hard surface, but appears to remain somewhat flexible.  We quickly discovered that as usual, you need both a good product and the proper technique to produce the desired outcome.  This took a while, but once we had it down we could produce the irregular surface of the original sprayed-on product and could even get it to sag in the “curtains’ reminiscent of what we often find in the rear wheel wells of many Mustangs and Shelby’s.

NOTE: We have not tested this to see how well it holds up on a daily driven or even an occasionally driven car as of yet. Also not all plants and years used spray on seam sealer in the interior, trunk or front wheel well seams. There are other products and techniques for those applications.


Before I go further I guess I should mention the product by name. It’s referred to as “Sludge” and is produced by Spectrum.

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-110817161525-79241384.jpeg)




Doing a 69 Dearborn car we found the product useful in areas where the seams were originally sprayed – producing the look of waves, splatters and heavy applications approx 4-6” wide.  These seams (on this project) included the seams found in the trunk area, interior seams, and front wheel well, at the firewall, seams.

We also used it where the factory applied spray sound deadener, in the rear wheel wells where, originally, it was typical to find heavy applications of sound deadener and overspray onto the rear frame rails while thinning at the upper surfaces of the wheel tub. We found another excellent application was reproducing or repairing the pattern of sound deadener that was applied to the inside surface of the rear quarter panels in the trunk interior.



Step 1- Once mixed the first step is to apply the Sludge to the panel. Of course you should consider what your final look will be. “Extra heavy there, a little thinner there?”  “If it’s thick to the edge of the wheel well, then I’ll need some “overspray” on the frame rail below and behind that point.”  Basically lay out a plan in your mind before you start. Not that you cannot adjust if need be, but go at it with a plan.


The plan should be formed after researching what workers did at that car’s particular plant at that time and date. Examining original cars can tell you how many passes they took with the application wand and even where they stopped and started each pass. All important if you’re going to make this  look right.


While I think of it, I should offer that too much of the product should not be mixed at one time. It normally has a pretty decent pot life but you can add additional product if you run out and it’s not fun to have a hardened lump in your mixing bucket. NOTE: The Sludge mixes up and takes on a deep purple color which changes into a dark gray/black when dry.


The makers of the produce suggest that it can be sprayed. Figured that was going to be a mess and not provide me with the control I wanted, so I relied on a more basic technique, slap it on anyway I could find.


After a while I found that a combination of paint stick and trowel would allow me to get the Sludge out of the bucket, on to the panel and get the thickness I was looking for.

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-110817161514-79171686.jpeg)




Step 2-  So the material has been applied to the surfaces as planned. Next a texture must be produced in the surface to reproduce the sprayed on look. Originally the look of small peaks that fall over into the product is somewhat similar to butter cream frosting on a cake. I found that by using a brush dipped into the surface, then removed straight up, then towards my next dipping point (every ¼” or less) I could produce the look similar to the original. I did this over and over again in the direction that I wanted to reproduce the direction of travel the worker would have made with the spray wand. This is going to take some time.

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-110817161512-79161996.jpeg)

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-110817161521-79201466.jpeg)

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-110817161519-79191413.jpeg)

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-110817161523-79222184.jpeg)

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-110817161524-79231773.jpeg)





Step 3- Once dry, areas can be repaired, expanded, or corrected as you see fit. Since the edges are rough and very unlike a sprayed on product, the final application, once dry, must be over coated with a good spray on sound deadener or undercoating that will dry to a firm surface and is paintable when dry.

Many will have 3M or Wurth products left from prior attempts at reproducing the original sealers, these will serve our purpose well. Simply spray over the complete surface of the Sludge application, extending the edges and continuing the overspray to the logical destinations.

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-110817161528-79262169.jpeg)

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-110817161528-79262169.jpeg)

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-110817161535-79301037.jpeg)

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-110817161537-7931725.jpeg)





Step 4- After all is dry the surfaces are ready to be over coated with primers, body color and/or black out spray, depending on year and plant practices you are imitating.

Like original – only a little cleaner ;)

Redone wheelwell
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-110817161510-7915470.jpeg)


Samples of original rear wheelwells for comparison


(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/9/6-140318173447.jpeg)

Has been black out by prior owner
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/9/6-140318173504.jpeg)


(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-110817161507-79141021.jpeg)


Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: thefordshow on July 24, 2009, 04:24:48 PM
 I've been playing around with the wurth sprayable seam sealer gun and pretty happy with the results. With some practice,..distance from the surface your spraying, air pressure, volume of material setting it can look very convincing. The down side is that the gun is not cheap and you can go through alot of tubes because of the amount of material being sprayed. The up side is is paintable and won't bleed and its a lttle flexable, so if you bump it ,it won't chip off the paint. [pic's are from my 67 shelby]
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: thefordshow on July 24, 2009, 04:26:23 PM
67 shelby trunk
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: J_Speegle on July 24, 2009, 05:16:58 PM
67 shelby trunk

Interesting - the application looks more like IMHO Dearborn application rather than San Jose at the rear bumper supports but there is a range

Looks like it would work well around the base of the rear wheel tub to floor.

Did this car originally have the panel (vertical back of the interior panels) to the wheel tub covered?? Haven't seen San Jose fastbacks (65-68) sealed there that I recall 

Had some stuff we use to use, , unfortunately he stopped making it. It did bleed a bit and would even change the tone of the paint shot over it - as the original stuff did. Was a nice IMHO by produce especially on a white car (5S431) we used it on.
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: thefordshow on July 24, 2009, 09:44:29 PM
Wow, pop quiz already! um,..I'm sure I've got some photographs when I first got it back in the late 70's, but something tells me the car had black rust proofing back there?  Shipped to Canada and driven in the snow [it had 60 series snows on it when I got it].    The sound deadener seem to hold up better for not bleeding , in fact I don't recall any bleeding vs the seam sealer around the tubs.    Chris
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: J_Speegle on July 24, 2009, 10:22:01 PM
Wow, pop quiz already! um,..I'm sure I've got some photographs when I first got it back in the late 70's, but something tells me the car had black rust proofing back there?  Shipped to Canada and driven in the snow [it had 60 series snows on it when I got it].    The sound deadener seem to hold up better for not bleeding , in fact I don't recall any bleeding vs the seam sealer around the tubs.    Chris


For bleed through I should have included I was looking for it for the sound deadener especially that applied to the inside surfaces of the quarter panel and on 69-up seam sealers at those same locations.

Would agree that the seam sealer used where you illustrated on 64-68's didn't bleed through.


Good to see you here.
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: thefordshow on July 24, 2009, 11:04:04 PM
Thanks for havin' me,..and if I get a little out of control, just pop a chunk of cheese in my mouth, [from the 3 stooges for some of you younger folks].   Chris
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: buckeyeresto on August 02, 2009, 11:39:27 AM
Great Work Jeff.   to make it easier next time this is the tool to use.  It get that oem look everyone is looking for

http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/3m-sprayable-seam-sealer-applicator-gun-08400-pc-15901-513.aspx
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: J_Speegle on August 02, 2009, 03:21:02 PM
Great Work Jeff.   to make it easier next time this is the tool to use.  It get that oem look everyone is looking for

http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/3m-sprayable-seam-sealer-applicator-gun-08400-pc-15901-513.aspx


Thanks - did try it and was not happy with the results as much as the more time consuming way we edged up with. Maybe with more time and playing with it.  Of course others will have different opinions and experiences  ;)

While we're discussing the 3M product and gun. How many cartridges would it take to equal a gallon of finished product? I can see where the cost of the applicator and the product could be outside of anyone but a shop doing these sorts of restorations on a regular basis.


Unfortunately neither bleeds through like the original

Thanks for mentioning another option

Might fill a need when I need to do a set of front wheelwells - since they are much different from the other applications. Luckily this was a 69 Shelby so no need to apply sound deadener to the front wheelwells
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: Skyway65 on January 12, 2011, 10:03:40 AM
Jeff-  How did this Sludge work out for you?  Would you use it again?  Any other problems that came up later?  Other comments...
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: J_Speegle on January 12, 2011, 07:39:20 PM
Jeff-  How did this Sludge work out for you?  Would you use it again?  Any other problems that came up later?  Other comments...

Been on the car for a couple of years - no cracking, peeling or coming off. Stuff is hard but seems to flex well with the temp changes.

Others have reported that they have had success at spraying the product but I've not yet tried it.

See where others have found some products they have also had success with in other post. Though I would try other new products for my uses I would not hesitate to use the Sludge again at this point
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: Skyway65 on January 12, 2011, 09:32:00 PM
Thanks for that.  I have a small repair to make :( and this stuff seems like it might be perfect without having to spray it, making a mess of everything!
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: 69 black r code on February 15, 2011, 10:56:54 PM
I used it in my trunk & wheelwells. Was very happy with the results. Was considering using for my floor pans, with a different application method of course.
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: J_Speegle on February 15, 2011, 10:57:55 PM
I used it in my trunk & wheelwells. Was very happy with the results. Was considering using for my floor pans, with a different application method of course.

Is your car a Mach I?
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: 69 black r code on February 15, 2011, 11:42:09 PM
Is your car a Mach I? Yes, had sound deadner from just behind where floor shifter mounts back to about shock mount area covering floor pans , trans tunnel ect.
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: roddster on April 16, 2011, 04:55:39 PM
I was looking through a Harbor Freight catalog when I saw a "paint texture gun" for 19.95.  Seems to me if I could figure out what to mix in with 3M body Shutz it might be the way to go.  Any thoughts?
I'd be using this on the inside of the quarter panels on my 67 Shelby (San Jose build)
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: J_Speegle on April 16, 2011, 07:29:27 PM
I was looking through a Harbor Freight catalog when I saw a "paint texture gun" for 19.95.  Seems to me if I could figure out what to mix in with 3M body Shutz it might be the way to go.  Any thoughts?
I'd be using this on the inside of the quarter panels on my 67 Shelby (San Jose build)

IF this is the one I've seen in the stores it sort of a gravity feed hopper used to shot stuff like the popcorn ceiling texture in a house. IMHO pretty large to manipulate in a trunk area and not sure how much control (to produce the fairly crisp edges of the quarter panel sound deadener.  Should only cost you about $40-50 to try it our on a cardboard box - let us know if it works - or even if it does not ;)
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: roddster on April 17, 2011, 12:28:56 PM
What drew me to it was the price; $19.95   And it is as you described with the hopper type reservoir.  It will be a few weeks 'till I get to try it.
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: Brant on April 27, 2011, 03:56:48 PM
Check out my blog post about what we chose to use on our 65 HiPo convertible:


(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_FhFCoO_tIME/Tbbd12l3KMI/AAAAAAAAWIU/OEvQi_t1C8c/s400/DSC_0289.JPG)


http://blog.virginiaclassicmustang.com/2011/04/early-1965-mustang-289-hipo-convertible_27.html
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: roddster on July 30, 2011, 12:14:01 PM
Well, time flies.  Just bought the "body Shutz" gun last week.  Question for Jeff;  Where does one buy the "sludge" at?  Is this something sold at autobody stuff stores, or a home center like Menards/Home Depot?
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: J_Speegle on July 30, 2011, 06:07:19 PM
Well, time flies.  Just bought the "body Shutz" gun last week.  Question for Jeff;  Where does one buy the "sludge" at?  Is this something sold at autobody stuff stores, or a home center like Menards/Home Depot?

Might want to check with the maker to see who they resell through. A number of web sites resell the stuff but here is the parent company's site


http://www.secondskinaudio.com/sound-deadener/spectrum-sludge.php (http://www.secondskinaudio.com/sound-deadener/spectrum-sludge.php)
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: roddster on July 31, 2011, 12:59:32 PM
Thanks Jeff.  This is a pretty infomative website.  You can hear testmonials, see a short video on the sprayable "Spectrum".  Seems "Sludge" is not sprayable.  Both products are water based.  Easy clean up.  They say it will not crack.  And, there is a Zipcode punch so if there is a place near you, you can find out right away, or, order the stuff direct from them.
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: J_Speegle on July 31, 2011, 06:49:16 PM
Thanks Jeff.  This is a pretty infomative website.  You can hear testmonials, see a short video on the sprayable "Spectrum".  Seems "Sludge" is not sprayable.  Both products are water based.  Easy clean up.  They say it will not crack.  And, there is a Zipcode punch so if there is a place near you, you can find out right away, or, order the stuff direct from them.

Understand from others that they have sprayed it (got to water it down) but have not done that myself. Might try it in the front wheelwells for the Cougar I'm doing just to see how it turns out.
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: 1970shelbyguy on February 04, 2012, 11:28:37 PM
hey jeff-  tried the spectrum today-  you're right it's trial and error on how much activator you add. .   started out with some goop in a paint cup- then added a little bit of hardener.  mixed them up and applied to my rear tubs with a cut down paint brush.   didn't brush it on just applied it with a "stabbing" motion. .  lots of texture.  went on great
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: J_Speegle on February 05, 2012, 11:07:15 PM
hey jeff-  tried the spectrum today-  you're right it's trial and error on how much activator you add. .   started out with some goop in a paint cup- then added a little bit of hardener.  mixed them up and applied to my rear tubs with a cut down paint brush.   didn't brush it on just applied it with a "stabbing" motion. .  lots of texture.  went on great

Good to hear. Remember to top coat it with some spray on rubber undercoat so you get the fine texture and the spray on look along any edges
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: 1970shelbyguy on February 21, 2012, 01:14:11 AM
hi jeff- been studying this site again and again-    topcoated the spectrum with some paintable schutz  i liked the blackout look in the wheel wells but it isn't correct.  so i shot some blue over the blkout last nite .   used a spray gun to do the pinch weld blkout.  yes the over spray does shoot out a bit on the floor boards.  things are going great.  thanks again to the three wise men!
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: roddster on July 26, 2012, 12:34:22 AM
Just finishing up the painting.  On the inside of the quarter panels, after checking the assembly manual as to what area is supposed to be covered, I put on two coats of Spectrum Sludge a day apart.  The stuff dries in about one hour, but, so as not to mess it up I waited one day.

  You can brush it on any old way, then, "dab it" - quickly working with the brush at a 90 degree angle to get the right finish.  OK, it helped that I have an unrestored 67 GTA right there to copy from.  A day later I primed it, no primer soak in.  Two weeks or so later I painted white over it and again, no color soak in.

  So, to summarize: no paint gun necessary at at.  All you need is a nylon brush.  2-3" wide is suitable.  Remember to "dab it" at a 90 degree angle.
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: J_Speegle on July 26, 2012, 02:11:40 AM
I found using a brush did not allow me to duplicate the overspray and spray look to the edges. Did you redo the brush seam sealer (approx 1" wide) inside the quarter panel to wheelwell seam (along the inner surface not the lip) ?

Hopefully you used the original car as an example rather than the assembly manuals - since they are WAY WAY off from what the assembly lines did ;)
Had one owner do that (copy the assembly manual) that took his car to SAAC for Concours this year - unfortunately :(
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: roddster on August 02, 2012, 03:36:38 PM
I really didn't undress the wheelhouse area, just took off the quarter panel main exposed part.
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: tomtri66 on February 09, 2013, 09:56:54 PM
Jeff,
Just wanted to say thanks, I used the Spectrum Sludge today to do my passenger side wheel well and was very happy with the results.  I used the cut down brush and was able to replicate the factory application very well.  As a matter of fact, I repaired a small hole in the wheel well and removed only about a quarter of the original sound deadener and I was able to blend the factory and the spectrum to the point where you cannot tell where the factory stopped and the spectrum began.  Tomorrow I plan on doing the driver side and then inside the driver quarter panel that I replaced. 
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: J_Speegle on February 09, 2013, 11:06:10 PM
Jeff,
Just wanted to say thanks, I used the Spectrum Sludge today to do my passenger side wheel well and was very happy with the results. .......

Great   to hear - yes works real well filling in and repairing the thick heavy parts of the original sound deadener. Unfortunately, in the past, when we find something that works well - the formula gets changed (regulations) or something else takes it off the market. Lets hope the stuff is around for a while longer

Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: dieseldave on February 26, 2013, 12:01:10 AM
In the March 2013 Mustang Monthly, Bob Perkins states in his Resto Roundup column  that he uses "Lord Fusor 805" as a seam sealer (brushed on) and also sprayed on as a sound deadener. Anybody else used this product?  Link...http://www.lord.com/products-and-solutions/adhesives/automotive-repair-adhesives/product.xml/346
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: J_Speegle on February 26, 2013, 12:19:39 AM
In the March 2013 Mustang Monthly, Bob Perkins states in his Resto Roundup column  that he uses "Lord Fusor 805" as a seam sealer (brushed on) and also sprayed on as a sound deadener. Anybody else used this product?  Link...http://www.lord.com/products-and-solutions/adhesives/automotive-repair-adhesives/product.xml/346

If you use the SEARCH feature you'll find a number of references to other members use of that product. Just a personal choice ;)
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: MyRed66GT on April 18, 2013, 11:43:19 PM
Jeff- The UPS man delivered my Spectrum Sludge today. Car is at the body shop. I'm going back Monday to do the wheelwells and inside the trunk on the quarter panels. Two questions. 1. How long did you wait after applying the Sludge to spray the paintable undercoating on? 2. What kind of spray on undercoating do you suggest? Thanks!
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: J_Speegle on April 18, 2013, 11:47:19 PM
Jeff- The UPS man delivered my Spectrum Sludge today. Car is at the body shop. I'm going back Monday to do the wheelwells and inside the trunk on the quarter panels. Two questions. 1. How long did you wait after applying the Sludge to spray the paintable undercoating on? 2. What kind of spray on undercoating do you suggest? Thanks!

1- Stuff has to set up so I think it was 24 hrs

2- Any paintable rattle can undercoating will work. Allot depends on how thick you can get the stuff to spray ( I refrigerate it first) and the pattern the cheap nozzles will produce for you.  For the Shelby think I used Bondo brand

Hope this helps
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: MyRed66GT on April 22, 2013, 08:57:48 PM
Jeff- Went to the body shop today to apply the Sludge on the wheel wells and inside the trunk on the quarters. Just wanted to let you know this stuff works great and I was able to reproduce how these areas looked prior to dipping and e-coat. If I think of it I'll take some pictures of the finished product when I get back there next.
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: J_Speegle on April 23, 2013, 03:22:11 PM
Glad it worked for you

Thanks for sharing
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: Skyway65 on June 25, 2014, 12:40:18 PM
Just to add an update--I had some left over Spectrum Sludge and tried to duplicate the inside of the trunk quarter panel sound deadener on a January '65 Dearborn car on a piece of wood. Yeah, I know I must have been pretty bored to come up with this idea... :P
This stuff is pretty adaptable.  With some practice and time it will do what you need it to do.  Thanks again Jeff for the idea.   :)
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: J_Speegle on June 25, 2014, 01:53:18 PM
Did a similar thing with some small sheets of cardboard then cut it into smaller sections so that I could take it to shows and to seminars as an example of the product and what could be done.

Agreed - with a little playign with the product and some different techniques it seems to do the job
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: 67gtasanjose on August 30, 2017, 09:24:16 AM
Great thread to supplement info found in the Library article. I have read so far only the first page & will go back to read more perhaps this evening when I have more time.

Question I have along the lines of "Seam Sealers" is what is best for the brushable, something already BLACK in color. Areas of usage would be along the rocker panels/floorboards under the car & places like around the seatbelt plates. Maybe other threads I could locate n the subject, I am sure but for now I want to make up a list of materials & application tools so I can buy everything needed for my 67.
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: J_Speegle on August 30, 2017, 04:37:12 PM
Question I have along the lines of "Seam Sealers" is what is best for the brushable, something already BLACK in color. Areas of usage would be along the rocker panels/floorboards under the car & places like around the seatbelt plates. .............

Maybe not the best but what has worked well for me for years is a DAP product that I purchase at places like Home Depot. It can be purchased in black, is smooth (no grit like some of the roofing repair stuff) and is IMHO a good match.  Have only a draft of the 67 San Jose undercarriage (paint and sealer details) article done. Its like the 70 Dearborn one that was published and posted earlier this year in the library. These have been a 20 year project. Always correcting, adding too and tweeking so they never seem to get as done as I would like for publishing to the general public.  Have mostly worked on the years that I get more requests to since these have saved me allot of time rather than answering related questions over and over as the years pass :)
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: 67gtasanjose on August 30, 2017, 08:15:02 PM
Maybe not the best but what has worked well for me for years is a DAP product that I purchase at places like Home Depot. It can be purchased in black, is smooth (no grit like some of the roofing repair stuff) and is IMHO a good match.  Have only a draft of the 67 San Jose undercarriage (paint and sealer details) article done. Its like the 70 Dearborn one that was published and posted earlier this year in the library. These have been a 20 year project. Always correcting, adding too and tweeking so they never seem to get as done as I would like for publishing to the general public.  Have mostly worked on the years that I get more requests to since these have saved me allot of time rather than answering related questions over and over as the years pass :)

Thanks for the reply. Before I had read this, I went by the paint store and asked what they had on hand for sealers & sound deadeners plus I talked a little with them about these discussions within this thread and left there with only a caulking tube of black seam sealer & some acid brushes to try out. The salesman said the black seam sealer should spread OK with the brushes. I think I'll try some off the car first for practice.

Fortunately, my 67's underbody had not been molested enough to remove details of "where" to do the varying tasks and when I media-blasted, I left the underside alone for the most part. I also layed-light on the media-blasting over any seam sealing around the cowl and apron areas(mostly only removing paint so I have a good chance of putting things back close to original if I use the right products. I also ordered some Spectrum Sludge today and some Self-leveling sealer. There went a decent chunk of the bank account!
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: J_Speegle on August 30, 2017, 10:24:02 PM
Thanks for the reply. Before I had read this, I went by the paint store and asked what they had on hand for sealers & sound deadeners plus I talked a little with them about these discussions within this thread and left there with only a caulking tube of black seam sealer & some acid brushes to try out. The salesman said the black seam sealer should spread OK with the brushes. I think I'll try some off the car first for practice.

You might find that wetting the brushes in water or reducer will help it spread and not just clump on the brush.  For most things a 1/2" wide brush will produce better results (so that it looks like it was done in a single wipe one time from end to end) than a thinner brush



Fortunately, my 67's underbody had not been molested enough to remove details of "where" to do the varying tasks and when I media-blasted, I left the underside alone for the most part. I also layed-light on the media-blasting over any seam sealing around the cowl and apron areas(mostly only removing paint so I have a good chance of putting things back close to original if I use the right products. I also ordered some Spectrum Sludge today and some Self-leveling sealer. There went a decent chunk of the bank account!

Still cheaper than using Lord Fusion :)

Good luck
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: Bossbill on October 10, 2017, 01:32:06 PM
I've looked at every picture I can find of 67 SJ March seam sealers.
I think I've viewed every attempt at producing a factory seam sealer and sound deadening application.

While I commend all the efforts, I still wonder why when we think nothing of multi-thousand dollar paint jobs we still think Lord Fusor is expensive?
I can find the gun for around $165. While the tubes are $15 each or so, even with 10 of them the cost is around $300 including gun. That's chicken feed in the whole process.

And then you get results like this (youtube video):
https://youtu.be/kFt4PZoqa3k?t=2m9s

You can fiddle with the pressures and do overspray and fiddle to your hearts content in order to replicate almost any pattern on the car.
This example is a screen shot of a one pass. Look at the video to see how to produce various depths and patterns.

What am I missing? Why the disdain for this process?

[on edit -- I should add that the video uses a Transtar gun and Transtar 4182 seam sealer. The sealer comes in 4 different colors. The Lord gun is identical to the Transtar and half of the price of that gun on Amazon]
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: CharlesTurner on October 10, 2017, 02:03:07 PM
Agreed regarding Fusor, I have gotten excellent results also.  I've been lucky and found the tubes cheaper online from time to time.
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: Bossbill on October 10, 2017, 04:03:26 PM
There is also a slight cost saving in that the gun can lay out a seam that closely replicates the seam sealer used on the front aprons. Smooth and somewhat runny, without any overspray at all. One product does it all (I think).
You can also lay it on and then brush it out, like at the rocker seam, seat belt reinforcement and other underbody areas.
It does look like you almost need one tube each to glop it on at the rear bumper reinforcements!

I have a query into Lord to ask if their product allows multiple coats and what the dry time would be between coats. It is a urethane product.
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: J_Speegle on October 14, 2017, 05:32:36 PM
While I commend all the efforts, I still wonder why when we think nothing of multi-thousand dollar paint jobs we still think Lord Fusor is expensive?
I can find the gun for around $165. While the tubes are $15 each or so, even with 10 of them the cost is around $300 including gun. That's chicken feed in the whole process.

What am I missing? Why the disdain for this process?

As always or often does it comes down to choice and what you find that works best for you in your situation. The bottom line is the finished product - not always how you got there when its all said and done. Saving dollars can be a negative if the final product doesn't look the part but when it does some/many will wee the benefit of the savings.  I've used the product and worked with a number of shops that did/do also. Not disdain jut prefer one over the other for a number of reasons. 
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: Bossbill on October 15, 2017, 02:34:56 PM
I did exchange emails with Transtar, who make the product in the above video.
They say their product is as moisture proof as any epoxy sealer and can go straight over metal.
If the car is bare metal you can use their sealers right over the metal and then apply the DP74LF (or whatever epoxy primer you prefer).
This saves a bunch of effort in that you aren't priming, sealing and then priming again to get the correct color over the sealer so as to emulate factory processes.
Doesn't help me as the car is already DP74LFed.

And the product can be re-coated if done within their re-coat time (within 48 hrs).
I've seen many laments that re-coats are not possible with other products.

I'm not married to the product, but it solves a number of issues.
I'll buy the gun and try it out the Transtar product and post some results here.

Meanwhile, I'm building a spreadsheet of how to paint the car in the correct order.
With help from other threads here I'm getting a great idea of order and processes.
Silly?
I have over 40 line items (and growing!) of areas to prime, sealer, re-prime, special paints, etc and it was getting hard to keep track of all of this without screwing up. I have columns devoted to prime, seal, prime again, bare steel areas, interior and so on. Paint work extends over days and days (weeks?) and having a checklist keeps the screw-ups at a minimum.
[on edit: clear up a clumsy sentence]
Title: Re: Seam Sealers and Sound Deadeners - What worked for me
Post by: J_Speegle on October 15, 2017, 05:57:50 PM
Meanwhile, I'm building a spreadsheet of how to paint the car in the correct order.
With help from other threads here I'm getting a great idea of order and processes.
Silly?


Be aware that there are maybe a dozen of others working on similar products plus I'l be publishing at least the 67 San Jose undercarriage article (like the 69-70 Dearborn ones on the site currently). I broke the process into areas since few tackle the whole job as a single task plus they becomes  too large with supporting illustration plus overlap from one section of the car to another can create other challenges.  Nice release is planned to be 66 San Jose but many of these have taken 20 years to get this far.