ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Body, Paint & Sealers => Topic started by: ruger on August 16, 2017, 07:59:30 AM
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Now that I have fresh Silver Jade paint applied I have a question about how much orange peel is good. It's pretty uniform across the entire car. A little less on the roof. Does anyone have a photo of correct orange peel? I guess that would be the term.
By the way Jeff. Thanks for the proper painting techniques. I painted it just as described in your outlines. Hood hanging etc...
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Now that I have fresh Silver Jade paint applied I have a question about how much orange peel is good. It's pretty uniform across the entire car. A little less on the roof.
If (a big if) the painter know how to create orange peel, the surfaces facing up should not have any. That would be the roof, trunk lid and the rear fenders. The hood and front fenders were hung to paint in a different area along with the front valence and lower grill bar. That leaves the "C" pillars (the vent areas on a fastback, the same areas on a hardtop) to "allow" orange peel - for judging purposes. I like the look of a good finish on the roof, hood and sides - no orange peel (personal preference). The "C" pillar orange peel covers the need. Obviously a convertible will have different spots, I would recommend the rear fenders where the folding top is located. Remember, too much is bad, none is bad.
Jim
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Thanks Jim, I have been searching out cars in my area to look at with none done to concours standards. I am gonna leave some peel on the lower parts of the car, rockers etc... I hope this will work out for me but I really cannot find any standards for peel. Thanks for your info.
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I hope this will work out for me but I really cannot find any standards for peel.
It's a quandary, a "standard" for a desired flaw.
Jim
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The MCA judging sheets note that orange peel should be found throughout the car. In the past the judges would look for orange peel and if they found it anywhere, that was generally acceptable. I believe they are getting tighter on that standard.
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Thanks Jim, I have been searching out cars in my area to look at with none done to concours standards. I am gonna leave some peel on the lower parts of the car, rockers etc... I hope this will work out for me but I really cannot find any standards for peel. Thanks for your info.
Some things are difficult to put into words so it falls back on training for the judges and the like. So many cars have been sanded and buffed that it easy easy to note that there is no orange peel. The degree of orange peel on a car that has it is the subjective and difficult to describe part. I typically use the clip board to messure the amount since it provides a reflection of a sharp edge that I can tilt and move as we move around the car. In a pinch, pant legs can provide a edge to compare also
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It's a quandary, a "standard" for a desired flaw.
Jim
Jim, Orange peel is a result of the paint drying process as much as application of the paint. There is no such thing as no orange peel unless the paint is sanded and buffed. Sanding and buffing is used to correct the flaws in a poor paint job. I think you are confused?
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Jim, Orange peel is a result of the paint drying process as much as application of the paint. There is no such thing as no orange peel unless the paint is sanded and buffed. Sanding and buffing is used to correct the flaws in a poor paint job. I think you are confused?
Bob,
I painted my first car in 1968 in a carport in Sunnyvale, CA, on a weekend. It was a buddy's 60 Triumph TR3. He wanted it metal flake silver. It came out pretty good. A good guess is I've painted a couple dozen since then, in between designing and building USAF tracking stations, and other trivial projects. Oh, I got my painting experience in the Navy painting ships (Tin Cans) and electronic equipment (mostly radar). That was applied to Mustangs. I got a few awards, and sold a few completed projects, with an appropriate amount of "orange peel". Confused? No.
Jim
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Thanks for the info guys. I know that trying to explain a desired amount of orange peel is a tough job. I simply had areas that looked a little heavier with peel than others. I have worked the sail panel area to where it is at a low visibility from a straight ahead view but from an angle it is more pronounced. I will proceed to do the entire car to that level. I just thought maybe there would be some pictures to help me with this. I will get some pics of mine and post them. Thanks
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There are variables that go into the appearance of orange peel. Remember that these cars were painted with acrylic enamel and then baked to cure, so the paint would flow out and have a more 'coarse' appearance, the orange peel looks 'bigger', for a better term. Most painting done in professional shops these days would not be baked like done at the factory. This ends up requiring the perfect combination of paint mixture, spray method, exterior temperature, humidity... to replicate the original orange peel appearance. I'm by no means a professional painter, but have discussed this at length in the past with my paint guy, who has been running production body shops for 35+ years.
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It sounds like orange peel has a variance from person to person. I'm not building a Thoroughbred car so I should be ok.
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It sounds like orange peel has a variance from person to person. I'm not building a Thoroughbred car so I should be ok.
IF your showing the car be aware that this is a concours car expected characteristic
A picture provided in another thread will illustrate one example
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-120615174649-40931348.jpeg)
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It sounds like orange peel has a variance from person to person. I'm not building a Thoroughbred car so I should be ok.
There should be no difference in the paint application between concours and Thoroughbred. It's a right or wrong thing.
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It sounds like orange peel has a variance from person to person. I'm not building a Thoroughbred car so I should be ok.
There should be no difference in the paint application between concours and Thoroughbred. It's a right or wrong thing.
To phrase slightly different, both Concours Trailered and Thoroughbred have the same paint expectations. If you are not building the car to show in ether class you will be OK (no deduction) . If you are building it to show expect a possible deduction depending on how the paint looks.
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IF your showing the car be aware that this is a concours car expected characteristic
A picture provided in another thread will illustrate one example
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-120615174649-40931348.jpeg)
How do you judge the amount of orange peel? To much, to little or spot on?
Thanks
John
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How do you judge the amount of orange peel? To much, to little or spot on?
It's a range one looks for like paint overspray, sound deadener application or the amount of gloss or flatness in some of the semi-gloss finishes .
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Thanks everyone. My problem is that when my car was painted the orange peel was heavier in some areas and in others the paint was pretty slick. Possibly due to my smaller air compressor. Overall I am happy with the paint but am in a situation due to the slicker part of the painted areas. I sanded down the heavy peel to a more reasonable appearance. I do have orange peel but just not over the entire car. For instance, somehow the side scoops look pretty slick. I just can't justify going back and respraying these areas again.
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If you are over restoring your car spend many hours aligning/fitting body body panels, block sanding primer and sanding your paint finish smooth and buffing to a high luster. Early Mustangs are very easy cars to do a correct restoration on as the body panel finish and alignment was mediocre and all panels have orange peel. The majority of cars I see today are nice but over restored. BTW, I have 33 years in the Auto Body business.
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If you are over restoring your car spend many hours aligning/fitting body body panels, block sanding primer and sanding your paint finish smooth and buffing to a high luster. Early Mustangs are very easy cars to do a correct restoration on as the body panel finish and alignment was mediocre........
Have to respectfully disagree as a general comment as far as panel alignment and fit. Allot of unrestored cars after 50 years fit good today. And we've posted some examples of this in prior threads. Cars don't fall back into prefect or close to it alignment after all these years use as daily drivers. Sure a few might have slipped through with visible issues that could be seen standing onside the car but believe this was not the general practice or something that would have been ignored by the inspectors of which there were a ton (Ford estimated 1 for every 10 workers). Inspectors carried gauges to measure the fit of panels though with experience I doubt they needed them very often
As far as over restored we can agree - unfortunately the things we see on original and unrestored cars are considered by many as flaws and not up to Pebble Beach standards :)
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the trunk lid fit on many 65/66 fastbacks was less then desireable on fasstbacks. just my observation.
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I have an unrestored 65 Fastback and I'd say the fit is just "good"
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Jeff have you ever seen any cars where the paint doesn't have orange peel from the factory-well after dealer prep? Without getting into a long story an OO and retired Ford worker bought a black 69 Mach1 and said it had no peel on it. He wanted maroon but that wasn't going to happen as his maroon ordered car was damaged off of the hauler in the summer of 69. The dealer couldn't find a maroon and asked him to come see an identical black car and when he saw the paint he bought the car. Gary
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Jeff have you ever seen any cars where the paint doesn't have orange peel from the factory-well after dealer prep?
No orange peel any place? Well no can't recall seeing one like that. Remember that dealer prep did not normally include buffing the paint or anything close to that. After 50 years of a high mileage original paint many cars have paint that has been waxed and cleaned so many times it can be difficult to find it on major panels but would not consider those great examples reflective of cars at the dealership nor the assembly plant.
Who knows on this particular car and if the owner really looked at the inside of the head light buckets and other areas or if the car had received special attention since the car was black or it had sat around the dealership as a show car for the product line. Hard to take one example (especially one we can look at our self) and draw any conclusion IMHO. We often gloss some details over, over time. Have hand plenty of original owners explain how their cars had nothing but the original paint only to be shown where touch ups and repairs had been made
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Doing paint jobs for others on their toy cars they want glass smooth. Look how much orange peel is on a brand new car, some worse than others, and they accept it from the factory. Back in the early 80's I used to hunt with my uncle and his friends, rode up in a Chevy truck that it was so bad you could see the primer through the paint.
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Jeff have you ever seen any cars where the paint doesn't have orange peel from the factory-well after dealer prep? Without getting into a long story an OO and retired Ford worker bought a black 69 Mach1 and said it had no peel on it. He wanted maroon but that wasn't going to happen as his maroon ordered car was damaged off of the hauler in the summer of 69. The dealer couldn't find a maroon and asked him to come see an identical black car and when he saw the paint he bought the car. Gary
There was not enough paint (3 mil or less) on a original paint 69 Mustang to remove the orange peel without exposing the gray primer.
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Here's a photo I took at the NPD musuem.
(https://s9.postimg.org/ugooki3fz/IMG_5327.jpg)
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Thanks, the last picture shows me what I needed to know. My paint is not that drastic but is showing peel at least. Thanks
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Walking through the museum, and seeing them side by side, it was obvious which cars had clear coat and which ones had original (or original style) paint. The custom "hot rod" look is cool, but for my own taste I really like the way the single stage paint reacts to light. You see the car and its outline, not the reflections of a polished surface.
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Keep in mind that the hood and fenders were painted off the car at the assembly plant and were hanging on hooks. Orange peel appearance could vary panel to panel depending on how it was painted.