Author Topic: First time Concourse Trailer (CTE) Class - Cleaning questions  (Read 2343 times)

Offline nham3407

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First time Concourse Trailer (CTE) Class - Cleaning questions
« on: January 26, 2016, 11:04:25 AM »
I did a search in this section and could not find anything specific.  I will be taking my 72 Mach 1 to St. Augustine in April for its first MCA judged show.  A bit nervous after the lengthy time spent restoring and refinishing prior to Charlotte 2014.  I have driven it a fair amount since then and work to keep it clean all the time.

I was hoping I could get some feedback on specific areas to pay attention to in pre-show cleaning.  I appreciate that opinions can very on this subject, but would appreciate any feedback that can help me get prepared.  With it be 11 hours from my home to St. Augustine it will be trailered so once cleaned it will hopefully stay that way for the trip.

Thank you,
Brian
67 GT S-Code, San Jose, 06/67
72 Mach 1, Dearborn, 01/72
68 Merc. Cyclone, Lorain, 06/68

Offline 67gta289

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Re: First time Concourse Trailer (CTE) Class - Cleaning questions
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2016, 12:26:12 PM »
As a certified 67-68 judge in MCA I've assisted several different gold card judges at 6 different shows over the last 3 years.  With that background, I can share my experience, which may or may not be in line with MCA concours judging at large, but I suspect it does, realizing that there are always exceptions.

1. We don't go out looking for dirt.  We don't wear white gloves and wipe across the back side of the pinch weld, for example.

2. We take the surroundings, weather, and near term historic weather into consideration.  For example, if it has been raining for two weeks straight, and there is parking on the grass, if you are next to a mud puddle...we might look the other way at a blade of grass on the driver's side front carpet.  But if the weather has been dry and warm for days, and you are in a parking lot, if there is a large dirty foot print with small pebbles on the carpet, that will be a hit.   The bottom line here is common sense.

3. If there is a small cob web between two bolts on an exhaust hanger clamp at the center of the car, you'll probably get a pass.  But cob webs between the stabilizer bar bushing and the lower control arm (have seen it) will probably result in a loss of points.

Again, for the events where I was able to participate first hand, the focus was always first on the "correctness" of the pieces of the puzzle.  While looking at the various pieces as we go through the list, if someone sees a cleanliness problem, it is discussed.  If there is nothing said, there are no points lost due to cleanliness.

I would suggest that once you have the car parked in position, you look it over well.  This includes laying on your back and looking at the rocker area.  Have a Swiffer on an extension that you can use to brush things off underneath.  Make sure that the floor mats are out of the car, the trunk is clear, etc.  Check the wheels and tires, those are often an area that have cleanliness issues.

Hope this makes sense.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 12:29:04 PM by 67gta289 »
John
67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose
MCA 74660

Offline caspian65

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Re: First time Concourse Trailer (CTE) Class - Cleaning questions
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2016, 12:27:27 PM »
If this is a car that you drive regularly, you may want to consider putting it in the Concours Driven class as they do allow trailer cars there also.  The car has to look like it is driven, if it's absolutely spotless with no signs of wear or use, then it will most likely be put in the trailer class.

Now, there is nothing to stop you from entering the regular trailer class, it's just a bit more challenging as it requires 97% of the points for gold.

Getting back to your question, if you enter in the normal trailer class, you'll need to car to be extremely clean throughout.  Your goal is as close to perfection as possible.  Some judges are more tough than others on cleanliness.  It's something that you have total control over, it's either clean or it's not.  Probably be good to have someone else look over your work just as a safeguard.

50% of the points in MCA are workmanship, condition and cleanliness, the other 50% are authenticity.
Charles Turner - MCA/SAAC Judge
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Offline nham3407

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Re: First time Concourse Trailer (CTE) Class - Cleaning questions
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2016, 12:34:14 PM »
Thank you. I guess I am unsure of what regularly driven means.  I do like to take it out on nice weekends and go for a couple hour drive.  It does not sit in a warehouse or showroom.  I would say during the months of May-Sept. here in West TN area it goes out at least 4-5 times a month weather permitting. I drive it to local shows and it even paced the Southern 500 Nascar race this past Labor Day. So it gets used.  How would you advise I get additional feedback on the proper class? 

I was under the impression Concourse Driven means it was driven to the show.
67 GT S-Code, San Jose, 06/67
72 Mach 1, Dearborn, 01/72
68 Merc. Cyclone, Lorain, 06/68

Offline caspian65

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Re: First time Concourse Trailer (CTE) Class - Cleaning questions
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2016, 12:52:55 PM »
Thank you. I guess I am unsure of what regularly driven means.  I do like to take it out on nice weekends and go for a couple hour drive.  It does not sit in a warehouse or showroom.  I would say during the months of May-Sept. here in West TN area it goes out at least 4-5 times a month weather permitting. I drive it to local shows and it even paced the Southern 500 Nascar race this past Labor Day. So it gets used.  How would you advise I get additional feedback on the proper class? 

I was under the impression Concourse Driven means it was driven to the show.

Sounds like a car that is driven.  There used to be a separate class labeled CDT which is concours driven cars that are trailered to the shows.  MCA has decided to merge those cars back into regular concours driven.  The way I understand it, when you register, register as concours driven and then during classification at the show, explain to them that you did trailer the car to the show but you normally drive it.  They will determine what class the car goes in, but shouldn't be an issue.

You may want to contact the MCA head judge for clarification on the matter.
Charles Turner - MCA/SAAC Judge
Concours Mustang Forum Admin

Offline nham3407

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Re: First time Concourse Trailer (CTE) Class - Cleaning questions
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2016, 12:59:42 PM »
Thank you again for very good advice.  I will follow-up with the Head Judge.
67 GT S-Code, San Jose, 06/67
72 Mach 1, Dearborn, 01/72
68 Merc. Cyclone, Lorain, 06/68

Offline BobV

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Re: First time Concourse Trailer (CTE) Class - Cleaning questions
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2016, 01:58:04 PM »
I like to print out the rule sheet for my class, then go over the car section-by-section as kind of a checklist...

Too easy to stand back and say"the engine compartment looks good" vs. using the checklist and finding problems in specific area (dirty master cylinder cap, for instance). Also, if you have you old judging sheets from previous shows, re-inspect any areas that previously lost points.
1986 Saleen Mustang
46k miles 98% original

Offline 67gta289

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Re: First time Concourse Trailer (CTE) Class - Cleaning questions
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2016, 02:01:27 PM »
Bob, excellent idea.
John
67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose
MCA 74660

Offline nham3407

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Re: First time Concourse Trailer (CTE) Class - Cleaning questions
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2016, 03:14:05 PM »
I like to print out the rule sheet for my class, then go over the car section-by-section as kind of a checklist...

Thank you. These were adhered to during the restoration. All finishes were verified against the 71-73 rules prior to assembly. I also consulted with Mr. Perkins on a couple of things before and during.  I am sure much like anyone else on this forum I want the car to be as presentable as possible and obtain a respectable score at its first MCA showing.  I am also appreciative of the judging feedback to improve upon the car wherever needed.  I know this is not a one and done deal.
67 GT S-Code, San Jose, 06/67
72 Mach 1, Dearborn, 01/72
68 Merc. Cyclone, Lorain, 06/68

Offline BobV

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Re: First time Concourse Trailer (CTE) Class - Cleaning questions
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2016, 04:47:56 PM »
The rule sheet works as a good cleaning checklist... Just take it one line at a time.
IMHO, it's VERY important to go line by line, ESPECIALLY in the interior.
If you start off with a good impression there, it's human nature not to look as hard the further down the list they go.  ;)
1986 Saleen Mustang
46k miles 98% original

Offline nham3407

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Re: First time Concourse Trailer (CTE) Class - Cleaning questions
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2016, 05:46:07 PM »
Again thank you. I do have a couple of interior things to take care of that would make me feel better.  I do agree first impressions can help the judging process along.  Beauty is more than skin deep though in judging.  That is why I went t the extent of finding an original 1972 muffler.  Don't think they will have a lift again, but just in case I will be ready.  I have sent Mr. Stewart an email and also spoke with Mrs. Brown regarding my current classification.  Perseverance will get me in the right classification.

Everyone's continued feedback will hopefully get me closer to the mark.  My sincere appreciation.
67 GT S-Code, San Jose, 06/67
72 Mach 1, Dearborn, 01/72
68 Merc. Cyclone, Lorain, 06/68

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: First time Concourse Trailer (CTE) Class - Cleaning questions
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2016, 08:52:46 PM »
You would be surprise how far a judge can crawl or see under the cars if they choose to bend a knee. But yes you want that level of comfort know that if its checked your prepared.

Keep up the effort - you will be rewarded.  :)
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline mikeljgt500kr

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Re: First time Concourse Trailer (CTE) Class - Cleaning questions
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2016, 08:24:54 AM »
In my experience, it can never be too clean, and since some people who know their cars really well, tend to overlook small things like water spots, cobwebs, and dust/dirt in places it is hard to see, assume the judges have magnifying bionic eyes and can see anything and everything.  If you have access to a lift, use it and wipe everything, and I mean everything, down and ask yourself at ever turn, does it look spotless and even sterile?  The Mustang/Shelby world of judging is focused on cleanliness to a large extent.
I don't always downshift, but when I do it is near a Prius so they can hear me hurting the environment.

Offline caspian65

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Re: First time Concourse Trailer (CTE) Class - Cleaning questions
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2016, 11:21:53 AM »
In my experience, it can never be too clean, and since some people who know their cars really well, tend to overlook small things like water spots, cobwebs, and dust/dirt in places it is hard to see, assume the judges have magnifying bionic eyes and can see anything and everything.  If you have access to a lift, use it and wipe everything, and I mean everything, down and ask yourself at ever turn, does it look spotless and even sterile?  The Mustang/Shelby world of judging is focused on cleanliness to a large extent.

+1, also consider that MCA judges are allowed to use flashlights throughout the car!
Charles Turner - MCA/SAAC Judge
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Offline KevinK

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Re: First time Concourse Trailer (CTE) Class - Cleaning questions
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2016, 04:09:33 PM »
For the restored car, the parts and pieces will already be in place and hopefully done well. That just leaves cleaning.  While many judges may overlook a few things here and there as stated, many seem to have a personal favorite area to check. Whether a door hinge, pulley or other area we may not think about cleaning, it becomes glaringly obvious once pointed out. All the more reason to check past judging sheets. Ignoring the past deficiencies is good way to earn even more close scrunity.

When I clean my car, I try to imagine doing it with my eyes closed so I don't miss any crevasses or spots.  It just takes time to learn how your car gets dirty. Also, have someone else look it over even if it is just the wife. Get down on your knees and look up too.

Sometimes if I find one thing that jumps out at me, I will ask the owner to remove it.