Author Topic: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery  (Read 11491 times)

Offline carlite65

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2015, 09:55:55 PM »
the caps on the e-bay battery are different than the current offering.
5F09C331248

Offline Richard P.

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2015, 10:03:29 PM »
 I have a January 1965 Ford parts manual that list 5 batteries for a 1965 Mustang and a January 1966 Ford parts manual that lists 5 batteries for 1966 Mustang . Some of the parts numbers are like the ones that Jeff posted and some aren't. I think we should be careful dictating what size battery came in the1965/66 Mustangs (group22 versus group 24) except for maybe unrestored and thoroughbred because Marti reports aren't available for these Mustangs. We're not able to determine what  batteries came in these cars. My 02

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2015, 10:26:05 PM »
The NOS battery listed on e-bay appears exactly like the one being reproduced now except it's a group 22 red cap. What did the group 24 battery of that time period look like?

Yes that is the 68-71 version

The 65-67 version I believe is the one with the cast in information on the top of the batter as shown above


I have a January 1965 Ford parts manual that list 5 batteries for a 1965 Mustang and a January 1966 Ford parts manual that lists 5 batteries for 1966 Mustang . Some of the parts numbers are like the ones that Jeff posted and some aren't. I think we should be careful dictating what size battery came in the1965/66 Mustangs (group22 versus group 24) except for maybe unrestored and thoroughbred because Marti reports aren't available for these Mustangs. We're not able to determine what  batteries came in these cars. My 02

The parts manual only lists the suggested  replacement - since its likely going to lead some down the wrong path I'll pull the picture rather than adding unassociated information to the thread.

No one said that the correct battery and application had not been determined.

IMHO if a certain battery is correct (original) for a thoroughbred or unrestored car would it also be the original/correct one for a concours car?  That's the point.
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline carlite65

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2015, 10:30:08 PM »
I have a January 1965 Ford parts manual that list 5 batteries for a 1965 Mustang and a January 1966 Ford parts manual that lists 5 batteries for 1966 Mustang . Some of the parts numbers are like the ones that Jeff posted and some aren't. I think we should be careful dictating what size battery came in the1965/66 Mustangs (group22 versus group 24) except for maybe unrestored and thoroughbred because Marti reports aren't available for these Mustangs. We're not able to determine what  batteries came in these cars. My 02

my point is the appearance of the repro vs. assembly line style. not the group number. we can accept either group number as long as it is the correct appearance.
5F09C331248

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2015, 10:32:41 PM »
my point is the appearance of the repro vs. assembly line style. not the group number. we can accept either group number as long as it is the correct appearance.

That's a positive point. If it were the case that we could not determine if a car came with one instead of the other (sort of like tires) MCA Judges would have to accept either as we do on other parts.
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline PerkinsRestoration

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2015, 11:04:47 PM »
The general rule on Autolite batteries used in the Mustang era was the red letter battery was the OEM Sta-Ful replacement 3 year battery. The green letter was a 2 year Autolite replacement battery and Gold letters were the 5 year Extra Capacity Sta Ful replacement Battery. All 3 versions have unique cases so changing caps and repainting the letters will not be concours correct.


As far as MCA approving or promoting certain reproduction parts this will probably not happen for several reasons. MCA used to approve reproduction parts. During one of my stints as MCA National head judge I had the responsibility of this MCA approval. I would get hundreds of items to look at. Some good, some not so good. Then Ford got involved with their program. It did not take the MCA board long to figure out we don't need the liability issues that could arise putting the clubs name on reproduction parts.

I believe the early style group 22 series battery would be very useful to the hobby. The 68 style 22 is another unique case and the 69-70 is a group 21. Should MCA change concours rules to require a 22 or 21 series battery to encourage someone to reproduce one? Not in my opinion. I really doubt anyone could sell enough 68-70 group 21 or 22 series Sta Ful batteries to make it profitable? The 65-66 22 would be a winner in my opinion.


Offline ruppstang

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2015, 11:56:56 PM »
At last years MCA national show at Springfield Il. there was a unrestored 67 fastback being shown by the original owner. It had a group 22 battery with the yellow caps. He said it was the battery in the car when it was delivered to him. I think a good number of 67's used this battery. Our 67 C code GTA Marti report calls out a optional heavy duty battery that I presume would be a 24F with yellow caps?

I am very happy to see the support for change at this site. Hopefully it will translate to a better choice in reproduction batteries and improved MCA rules. 

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2015, 12:04:56 AM »
FYI there's an NOS one on ebay right now - buy-it-now for $2,500.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1965-71-Autolite-Group-22-Series-Red-Lettered-Battery-Ford-Mustang-/201005786916?hash=item2ecce0e724&vxp=mtr

Not my auction. Seller is from Juneau, WI. Sounds familiar...  ::)
That is not the same battery we are discussing. That is a service replacement battery for 68 on. It is a group 22 version comparable to the group 24 repro battery. Compare the top to one of the other pictures that instead of a sticker there is a raised lettering in yellow.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2015, 12:13:54 AM »
At last years MCA national show at Springfield Il. there was a unrestored 67 fastback being shown by the original owner. It had a group 22 battery with the yellow caps. He said it was the battery in the car when it was delivered to him. I think a good number of 67's used this battery. Our 67 C code GTA Marti report calls out a optional heavy duty battery that I presume would be a 24F with yellow caps?

I am very happy to see the support for change at this site. Hopefully it will translate to a better choice in reproduction batteries and improved MCA rules.
From what I have seen 65-67 small block that did not have A/C got the base battery which was a group 22 yellow cap battery. If it was ordered with the heavy duty battery it got a group 24 red cap . In 67 the 390 cars got the group 24 yellow cap and if A/C or maybe thermactor it got the group 24 with red caps. I have only studied V8's but can conclude that the 6cyl got the 22 also. So the vast majority of 65-67 Mustangs got the group 22 from the factory.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 12:15:58 AM by Bob Gaines »
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2015, 12:28:42 AM »
The general rule on Autolite batteries used in the Mustang era was the red letter battery was the OEM Sta-Ful replacement 3 year battery. The green letter was a 2 year Autolite replacement battery and Gold letters were the 5 year Extra Capacity Sta Ful replacement Battery. All 3 versions have unique cases so changing caps and repainting the letters will not be concours correct.


As far as MCA approving or promoting certain reproduction parts this will probably not happen for several reasons. MCA used to approve reproduction parts. During one of my stints as MCA National head judge I had the responsibility of this MCA approval. I would get hundreds of items to look at. Some good, some not so good. Then Ford got involved with their program. It did not take the MCA board long to figure out we don't need the liability issues that could arise putting the clubs name on reproduction parts.

I believe the early style group 22 series battery would be very useful to the hobby. The 68 style 22 is another unique case and the 69-70 is a group 21. Should MCA change concours rules to require a 22 or 21 series battery to encourage someone to reproduce one? Not in my opinion. I really doubt anyone could sell enough 68-70 group 21 or 22 series Sta Ful batteries to make it profitable? The 65-66 22 would be a winner in my opinion.
Bob ,it is my understanding that Drake wasn't looking for approval like in the old MCA approved parts program but rather confirmation that the different style battery was used . The fact that the MCA powers to be said that it "was not needed" when asked about it's relevance was what discouraged Scott Drake from investing the 50- 100,000.00 needed for the 22 and 24 case molds. I too think the 65-67 group 22 would be a welcome alternative as well as having a good chance of making money for the after market.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2015, 12:37:30 AM »
I have a January 1965 Ford parts manual that list 5 batteries for a 1965 Mustang and a January 1966 Ford parts manual that lists 5 batteries for 1966 Mustang . Some of the parts numbers are like the ones that Jeff posted and some aren't. I think we should be careful dictating what size battery came in the1965/66 Mustangs (group22 versus group 24) except for maybe unrestored and thoroughbred because Marti reports aren't available for these Mustangs. We're not able to determine what  batteries came in these cars. My 02
If the car did not have battery load options like A/C and possibly smog it got the base battery (22 yellow cap) unless special ordered. If it had those options it got another . There are not many choices IMO.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline ruppstang

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2015, 09:25:04 AM »
From what I have seen 65-67 small block that did not have A/C got the base battery which was a group 22 yellow cap battery. If it was ordered with the heavy duty battery it got a group 24 red cap . In 67 the 390 cars got the group 24 yellow cap and if A/C or maybe thermactor it got the group 24 with red caps. I have only studied V8's but can conclude that the 6cyl got the 22 also. So the vast majority of 65-67 Mustangs got the group 22 from the factory.


Most of the near twenty 67 -68 six cylinders that I have restored or parted had a group 22 tray.

Offline Richard P.

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2015, 09:35:53 AM »
I have a January 1965 Ford parts manual that list 5 batteries for a 1965 Mustang and a January 1966 Ford parts manual that lists 5 batteries for 1966 Mustang . Some of the parts numbers are like the ones that Jeff posted and some aren't. I think we should be careful dictating what size battery came in the1965/66 Mustangs (group22 versus group 24) except for maybe unrestored and thoroughbred because Marti reports aren't available for these Mustangs. We're not able to determine what  batteries came in these cars. My 02
Yes that is the 68-71 version

The 65-67 version I believe is the one with the cast in information on the top of the batter as shown above


The parts manual only lists the suggested  replacement - since its likely going to lead some down the wrong path I'll pull the picture rather than adding unassociated information to the thread.

No one said that the correct battery and application had not been determined.

IMHO if a certain battery is correct (original) for a thoroughbred or unrestored car would it also be the original/correct one for a concours car?  That's the point.
I thought that there was a significant point deduction for unrestored and  thoroughbred use of reproduction parts. If that is the case then the reproduction battery wouldn't help those cars. It would only be correct for Mustangs that can use reproduction parts. That's why I made the statement about those two classes.

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2015, 10:05:24 AM »
Anybody taking Stats, here is one that seems contrary:
(11/66) '67 Mustang with a 289, factory equipped WITH SelectAire and Thermactor that was delivered to the Majave Desert area (Barstow) and came with a group 22F (date code on tray confirms) and no call out for a HD battery on the Marti report.

Yes, I am interested in a correct 22F yellow cap StaFul for my '67 if anybody is keeping track of "who would buy one" (statement based on current understanding ~possibly a group 22F RED cap was used because of the A/C option and Thermactor)

...another "contrary fact"...it was ordered with standard 20" radiator (for the Majave Desert?~ pindejos)
...but hey!, they had a white vinyl roof put on it so they'd at least be comfortable inside of the car in the desert while the AC was running!
« Last Edit: September 14, 2015, 06:35:14 AM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline caspian65

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2015, 11:22:34 AM »
Bob ,it is my understanding that Drake wasn't looking for approval like in the old MCA approved parts program but rather confirmation that the different style battery was used . The fact that the MCA powers to be said that it "was not needed" when asked about it's relevance was what discouraged Scott Drake from investing the 50- 100,000.00 needed for the 22 and 24 case molds. I too think the 65-67 group 22 would be a welcome alternative as well as having a good chance of making money for the after market.

That's how I read it also, I don't believe there was ever a question about MCA approving the battery.  Guess I'm a little surprised, though, that the decision for go or no-go hinged directly on one person's opinion.  Seems that a market analysis would be more in line for a business decision to produce and sell a product.  Would make better sense to be talking to the current manufacturer's of the '68-up style battery to get an idea of what their previous and present volume are.  Even if the 65-67 style top was made and fit to the current repro, would still be a huge improvement.
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