Author Topic: Battery Heat Shields  (Read 2326 times)

Offline pagoda69

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Battery Heat Shields
« on: September 08, 2015, 11:15:42 AM »
Excellent information compiled on this site regarding battery heat shields, 67 through 73. I am in the process of correcting some engine compartment details on my (previous Concours Gold Trailered) 67 San Jose S-code GTA, thermactor, No A/C, Oct, 66 build. The only documentation I can find regarding the battery heat shields shows the shields required on S-code cars with A/C. No mention of thermactor cars. Will I get deducted in Concours for no shield?

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: Battery Heat Shields
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2015, 01:38:48 PM »
Excellent information compiled on this site regarding battery heat shields, 67 through 73. I am in the process of correcting some engine compartment details on my (previous Concours Gold Trailered) 67 San Jose S-code GTA, thermactor, No A/C, Oct, 66 build. The only documentation I can find regarding the battery heat shields shows the shields required on S-code cars with A/C. No mention of thermactor cars. Will I get deducted in Concours for no shield?
Only if you have a knowledgable judge that knows that they came standard on BB  thermactor equipped cars regardless if A/C or not.  ;)
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline pagoda69

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Re: Battery Heat Shields
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2015, 04:38:35 PM »
Is there a deduction for a repro heat shield?

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: Battery Heat Shields
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2015, 05:00:30 PM »
Is there a deduction for a repro heat shield?
There can be a slight deduction so that the guy who goes to the trouble to use a original one is rewarded. It depends again on the judge if he can tell the difference or misses it.  It would be a very slight deduction for a good repro IMO (trailer concours) and most likely would be part of cumulative deductions accessed in the catch all area at the back of the engine compartment section.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline 67gta289

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Re: Battery Heat Shields
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2015, 06:53:41 PM »
Bob, as you stated it depends on the judge. But my experiences over the last three years (6 shows IIRC, supporting 4 or 5 different gold card judges) is that generally speaking no points are deducted in Concours trailered or driven for a reproduction part, if installed correctly and is "clean".  Along the lines of the incorrect repro Autolite batteries, some original stuff is "unobtanium".  It has been explained to me that concern over reproduction parts is for the Thoroughbred class. 

Unfortunately there is no practical way to give someone "credit" for having original equipment, compared to others with repro parts, in these classes that I can see.  There are two primary reasons for this:

1. We have different teams judging from event to event. and in the same event as well, especially where there is a large number of cars.  Different teams equate to different knowledge bases, and different results.  The human problem.
2. If I'm part of a team that has to judge three cars, we judge one completely, turn in the form post haste (as instructed), then move to vehicle two.  Trying to remember what the previous vehicle(s) had is another human issue (memory).  Also if we did not remove points on the first vehicle, then on vehicle two see something done "better", we can't go back and change the form that was turned in.  When you factor in multiple teams, this difficult proposition turns impossible to manage.

As for knowing whether something was provided for originally, compared to what is in the printed rules, I agree with your comment that it is primarily based on the collective knowledge of the judging team.  If there is no consensus, it would probably be noted with no loss in points.  If there was no knowledge at all, it would move forward with no point loss and no notes.  I suppose that at the next show (or previous show?) if the results were different that would not look good.

I'm not saying that your comments are incorrect at all - just expressing my real boots on the ground experience and "training".   Where you say "there can be a slight deduction", I would technically agree, but in reality say that it would most likely not happen, in the Concours classifications.

Of course we are straying pretty far into topics that might be best discussed on the MCA web site.  It would be interesting to discuss being provided with a history of recent point losses when judging a car.  I suppose there would be pros and cons with that.
John
67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose
MCA 74660

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Battery Heat Shields
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2015, 08:00:29 PM »
Is there a deduction for a repro heat shield?

As mentioned there could be if there was some feature found on the reproduction (different from the originals) what could be identified to support the deduction. Without that it gets a pass IMHO. Don't recall ever deducting for the current reproduction unless it was installed on a 70


As far as application The 67 MPC list all Mustangs with AC not just 390's.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 08:06:15 PM by J_Speegle »
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: Battery Heat Shields
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2015, 10:31:28 PM »
Bob, as you stated it depends on the judge. But my experiences over the last three years (6 shows IIRC, supporting 4 or 5 different gold card judges) is that generally speaking no points are deducted in Concours trailered or driven for a reproduction part, if installed correctly and is "clean".  Along the lines of the incorrect repro Autolite batteries, some original stuff is "unobtanium".  It has been explained to me that concern over reproduction parts is for the Thoroughbred class. 

Unfortunately there is no practical way to give someone "credit" for having original equipment, compared to others with repro parts, in these classes that I can see.  There are two primary reasons for this:

1. We have different teams judging from event to event. and in the same event as well, especially where there is a large number of cars.  Different teams equate to different knowledge bases, and different results.  The human problem.
2. If I'm part of a team that has to judge three cars, we judge one completely, turn in the form post haste (as instructed), then move to vehicle two.  Trying to remember what the previous vehicle(s) had is another human issue (memory).  Also if we did not remove points on the first vehicle, then on vehicle two see something done "better", we can't go back and change the form that was turned in.  When you factor in multiple teams, this difficult proposition turns impossible to manage.

As for knowing whether something was provided for originally, compared to what is in the printed rules, I agree with your comment that it is primarily based on the collective knowledge of the judging team.  If there is no consensus, it would probably be noted with no loss in points.  If there was no knowledge at all, it would move forward with no point loss and no notes.  I suppose that at the next show (or previous show?) if the results were different that would not look good.

I'm not saying that your comments are incorrect at all - just expressing my real boots on the ground experience and "training".   Where you say "there can be a slight deduction", I would technically agree, but in reality say that it would most likely not happen, in the Concours classifications.

Of course we are straying pretty far into topics that might be best discussed on the MCA web site.  It would be interesting to discuss being provided with a history of recent point losses when judging a car.  I suppose there would be pros and cons with that.
With all of that said. There are the good repros and then there are bad ones . The good ones look like the original in all but a few minor details. The bad ones are the later 70's versions for other applications that are similar but have differences from original and also the good repro. Boots on the ground or not If you don't know the difference between the good and the bad then you would not know when to give a pass and when not to.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: Battery Heat Shields
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2015, 05:18:55 AM »
With all of that said. There are the good repros and then there are bad ones . The good ones look like the original in all but a few minor details. The bad ones are the later 70's versions for other applications that are similar but have differences from original and also the good repro. Boots on the ground or not If you don't know the difference between the good and the bad then you would not know when to give a pass and when not to.

I believe the article covers the differences, but it wouldn't hurt if somebody attached a few photographs here.
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Battery Heat Shields
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2015, 06:58:46 PM »
I believe the article covers the differences, but it wouldn't hurt if somebody attached a few photographs here.

Ok


C7 - in grey




C7 - in black Reproduction. Uncut - long version




D0 version




D0 (left) verses D4 (right) version

Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline pagoda69

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Re: Battery Heat Shields
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2015, 11:20:56 PM »
Thanks again for the info. I appreciate the extensive research that you have done.
John
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 11:29:28 PM by pagoda69 »

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Battery Heat Shields
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2015, 11:39:46 PM »
Thanks again for the info. I appreciate the extensive research that you have done.

Thanks - did speak to the restorer of your car this last weekend. He was at the MCA show in Ohio. Mentioned that you had found the site and we taking good care of the car :)
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)