Author Topic: (11/66) 1967 289 Engine Gaskets Discussion  (Read 227 times)

Offline 67gtasanjose

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(11/66) 1967 289 Engine Gaskets Discussion
« on: January 11, 2018, 04:56:05 PM »
I recently purchased an old stock 289 engine overhaul gasket set service number C3AZ-6008-D and wondered how similar (or not) these were for an assemblyline 289 engines of November '66. ***EDIT***I suppose further discussion could develop within the thread for the benefit of anyone seeking to duplicate other build dates. If things turn away from 67-68 only discussion, perhaps topic should be moved as needed.

First picture of the valve cover gaskets & Intake manifold.

I've always thought originals were cork valve cover gaskets (these are not typical cork)
Intakes look about like what I remember

Next image is the C3AE-6051-G head gasket. (note the McCord maker mark "Mc")

I will post more pictures after discussing these (3).
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 08:55:30 AM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: (11/66) 1967 289 Engine Gaskets Discussion
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2018, 05:33:54 PM »
Recently purchased some old stock 289 engine overhaul gasket set service number C3AZ-6008-D and wondered how similar (or not) these were for an assemblyline 289 engines of November '66.

First picture of the valve cover gaskets & Intake manifold.

I've always thought originals were cork valve cover gaskets (these are not typical cork)
Intakes look about like what I remember

Next image is the C3AE-6051-G head gasket. (note the McCord maker mark "Mc")

I will post more pictures after discussing these (3).
Many of the 60 era Ford SB valve cover gasket were cork with a black sealer on the top and bottom surface with bare cork seen on the sides  . Also the Ford gaskets would have 6 triangle shaped tabs that were to be secured in the cut outs made into the sheet metal valve covers . 2 on the top side and 2 across the bottom and 2 on each end. The picture of the intake gasket is very similar in shape and material to the 60's Ford design.   
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 06:03:38 PM by Bob Gaines »
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: (11/66) 1967 289 Engine Gaskets Discussion
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2018, 07:37:03 PM »
Like many things some line and often service replacements were farmed out to other sub contractors. As for how close the head gaskets are - do they have the small punched holes in the lower (both and as installed) corners?
Jeff Speegle

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Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: (11/66) 1967 289 Engine Gaskets Discussion
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2018, 05:25:54 AM »
Many of the 60 era Ford SB valve cover gasket were cork with a black sealer on the top and bottom surface with bare cork seen on the sides  . Also the Ford gaskets would have 5 triangle shaped tabs that were to be secured in the cut outs made into the sheet metal valve covers . 3 on the top side and 2 across the bottom. The picture of the intake gasket is very similar in shape and material to the 60's Ford design.

Clearly, these Valve Cover Gaskets do not have triangular shapes and one along the top-center is missing. They do seem to have a rubber-like dense cork material, same as the oil pan side gaskets in this set. This rubber-like dense cork could be easily mistaken (at a glance) as rubber gaskets. The view of the material from the side has a definate particle pattern to it and the face surfaces of the gasket have a grain pattern visible.
Regarding the the "triangle tabs", maybe a picture of assemblyline tabs could help me make a better choice for the valve cover gaskets. I did look at several of the other threads on unrestored 67's and did NOT see this detail. Only one that I saw was not focussed in on the detail.

FWIW: The packaging is the blue/white 1966-newer type (see attachment) and I imagine there is a beginning & end-date of usage of the C3AZ-6008-D part number. Perhaps some old Ford MPC research could assist in narrowing that window of time. Perhaps also, that knowledge may be an indicator of the evolution of 'parts usage' (contents of the packaged gaskets), at least what was available in the Ford service end of the spectrum.

Like many things some line and often service replacements were farmed out to other sub contractors. As for how close the head gaskets are - do they have the small punched holes in the lower (both and as installed) corners?

Jeff, I believe the holes you refer to are there. See attachment photo. Later Ford service do not look to have the hole, nor do ones marked as McCord for the auto parts store version of the head gaskets.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 09:04:38 AM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Online caspian65

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Re: (11/66) 1967 289 Engine Gaskets Discussion
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2018, 12:13:33 PM »
The valve cover gaskets are a typical later service replacement style that is different than the Ford engine assembly plant used.  They wouldn't be correct to use for 65-68 and I would guess at least a few years later.
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Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: (11/66) 1967 289 Engine Gaskets Discussion
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2018, 06:19:15 PM »
I amended my post above to include 6 tabs on the SB valve cover gaskets,2 on the top side, 2 across the bottom and 2 on each end. Here is a picture from a vintage catalog. Many times I have to make the cork triangles and glue them to the valve cover gasket to give the look of the vintage gasket. You can also give the same black sealer look on the top and bottom face by painting the top and bottom with a flat black spray paint. NPD used to sell gaskets with all of the tabs and blacked like the vintage gaskets were but discontinued them for some reason. Strangely the big block valve cover gaskets of the same era had a silver sealer all over. You can distinguish the different color on the BB gaskets in the picture also.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: (11/66) 1967 289 Engine Gaskets Discussion
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2018, 08:45:04 AM »
... Here is a picture from a vintage catalog. Many times I have to make the cork triangles and glue them to the valve cover gasket to give the look of the vintage gasket. ...

The picture helps only slightly, I still cannot make out what the "triangles" look like. (I enlarged the image)
If somebody wishes to duplicate the non-available "assemblyline type" look, (by gluing in the tabs) it would be extremely helpful to know what we are trying to find or create.

Maybe some pictures of "installed" examples would help. Non-Shelby examples would be a bonus for my needs. Either that or seeing a close-up shot of just a gasket (if anyone has) would be great also.
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: (11/66) 1967 289 Engine Gaskets Discussion
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2018, 07:13:20 PM »
The picture helps only slightly, I still cannot make out what the "triangles" look like. (I enlarged the image)
If somebody wishes to duplicate the non-available "assemblyline type" look, (by gluing in the tabs) it would be extremely helpful to know what we are trying to find or create.

Maybe some pictures of "installed" examples would help. Non-Shelby examples would be a bonus for my needs. Either that or seeing a close-up shot of just a gasket (if anyone has) would be great also.
Sorry I thought it was more common knowledge what the triangles looked like and it was just the position that was in question. The placement would coincide with the notches made into the sheet metal valve cover in case you are not sure. I took a closer picture of one of the triangle tabs for better understanding. The written word is easy to misinterpret  . For instance your comment about only helping slightly came off as a little condescending. I hope it wasn't meant that way since after I spend my time trying to help looking for pics etc. I would feel better appreciated without that type of sentiment.  I hope this helps "more" then just slightly .  ::)   
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Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: (11/66) 1967 289 Engine Gaskets Discussion
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2018, 08:00:40 PM »
Sorry I thought it was more common knowledge what the triangles looked like and it was just the position that was in question. The placement would coincide with the notches made into the sheet metal valve cover in case you are not sure. I took a closer picture of one of the triangle tabs for better understanding. The written word is easy to misinterpret  . For instance your comment about only helping slightly came off as a little condescending. I hope it wasn't meant that way since after I spend my time trying to help looking for pics etc. I would feel better appreciated without that type of sentiment.  I hope this helps "more" then just slightly .  ::)

I apologize for any misunderstanding but 'condescending' wasn't how I wish to have been understood. I have seen so many variations of gaskets over the last 50 years that much of that is a blur. I am a mechanic by trade, not a restorer so I was simply trying to get a closer look at what would be found on original cars since I rarely see any original cars, only restored cars. For me, it wasn't 'common knowledge', what the triangles looked like.

Thank you much for your responses (everyone).

Next post, I will move on to other gaskets I found in this sets. It may be Monday before I get back to this.

Yes, this last picture is exactly what I was trying to see closer-up than anything else I had seen so far in my searches.
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline jwc66k

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Re: (11/66) 1967 289 Engine Gaskets Discussion
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2018, 08:17:29 PM »
I've always called them "notched tabs" which was the term that was used in the mid-60's by speed shops.
Jim
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Offline 196667Bob

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Re: (11/66) 1967 289 Engine Gaskets Discussion
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2018, 03:08:40 AM »
FWIW: The packaging is the blue/white 1966-newer type (see attachment) and I imagine there is a beginning & end-date of usage of the C3AZ-6008-D part number. Perhaps some old Ford MPC research could assist in narrowing that window of time. Perhaps also, that knowledge may be an indicator of the evolution of 'parts usage' (contents of the packaged gaskets), at least what was available in the Ford service end of the spectrum.

Richard : Ask and thou shall receive. Hope this helps in some "slight" manner.

What started out I thought would be, and was initially, an easy "trace", turned out to be one convoluted mess. In order to develop this "essay" on the history of the 289 Engine Overhaul Gasket Set, I ended up using no less than the following : 1960-64 MPC (printed 1969), 1960-68 MPC (printed in 1967 and 1968), 1965-72 MPC (printed 1975), individual year Parts and Accessories Catalogs (individual year MPC's if you will) of 1962-1967 (printed in January of each year), and OSI (Obsolete-Superseded-Interchange) books from 1963-1990 (every year except 1973, 75, 78, 1980, 82, 85 88 and 89, which I don't have) printed in January and/or July of each year

Starting at the beginning with what I call the "Generic" multi-year MPC's, this is what I found :

1960-64 - shows Complete Engine Overhaul Gasket Kit (CEOGK) as C3AZ-6008-B

1960-68 - shows CEOGK as C3AZ-6008-D for 1965-66 ; C6AZ-6008-D for 1966-67 ;
                 C7AZ-6008-B for 1967-68 ; C8ZZ-6008-A for 1968.

1965-72 -  shows the same as the 1960-68 MPC, except that for 1968, for those engines
                  with MT, shows C7AZ-6008-B, And for 68's with AT, shows D1AZ-6008-B.

Now that the multi-year MPC's are "out of the way", let's look at he individual year MPC's :

1963 - Since the first 289 appeared in December of 1962, we'll start with the 1963 MPC.
           Right from the start, there is something strange. The only CEOGK's listed are for 2 
           different 6 cylinder engines ? Even if the 289 came out after the 1963 MPC was
           printed, where are the CEOGK's for the 292, 352 and 390 V8's that were available
           in 1963 ? I decided to check my 1962 MPC. The only CEOGK shown in it is for the
           292 ? Where are the 6 cylinders and the 352 and 390 CEOGK's ? On to 1964.

1964 - Finally, the CEOGK for the 289 is listed; C3AZ-6008-B.

1965 - shows the same as 1964 - C3AZ-6008-B.

1966 -  shows the same as 1964 and 1965 - C3AZ-6008-B. What is interesting about
            1966 is that it is the first year that the individual MPC's took the Engine Section,
            Section 6000, and broke it into "Parts Lists", each list containing all of the Engine
            Parts associated with that particular "Group" of engines. The lists were "Part 1",
            170 and 200 cid 6 cylinder, "Part 2", 240 cid 6 cylinder, "Part 3", 289 and 289
            Special, "Part 4", 352, 390 and 390 Special, "Part 5", 427, and "Part 6", 428. This
            Listing by "Engine Groupings" continued 1n 1967, and possibly further (1967 is
            the last single year MPC that I have).

1967 - shows the CEOGK for 1967 289 as C6AZ-6008-D.
Now on to the OSI catalogs to see when the changes in Part Numbers might have occurred. As Ford did not issue the OSI catalogs monthly, but at frequencies that varied anywhere from once a year, to quarterly (and I have basically only one from every year from 1961 through 1972, plus sporadic others from 1974 through 1990), I can only provide a range of when parts were "Replaced By" (R/B), "Not Replaced" (NR, ie Obsolete) or "Mixed/Matched With" (MW).

July 1967 - C3AZ-6008-B was R/B C3AZ-6008-D (thus somewhere between July 1966 and July 1967).

July 1968 - C7AZ-6008-A was R/B C7AZ-6008-B

1969 -  January 1972 - No changes.

July 1974 - C8ZZ-6008-A was R/B D1AZ-6008-B (thus sometime between January 1972 and July 1974).

July 1976 -  C3AZ-6008-D was R/B D5PZ-6E078-E which was then R/B D1AZ-6079-B ;
C6AZ-6008-D was R/B D1AZ-6079-B, which was R/B D5PZ-6E078-E ; C8ZZ-6008-A was
R/B D1AZ-6008-B, R/B D5PZ-6E078-E, R/B D1AZ-6079-B.

January 1977 - In addition to what is shown in July 1976, now it is shown that C3AZ-6008-D was also R/B D60Z-6079-A ; for the C6AZ-6008-D, it was R/B D1AZ-6079-B, R/B D60Z-6079-A, and R/B D5PZ-6E078-E ; for the C7AZ-6008-B, it was R/B D1AZ-6079-B, which was R/B D60Z-6079-A, which was R/B D5PZ-6E078-E ; the C8ZZ-6008-A was R/B D1AZ-6008-B, R/B D5PZ-6E078-E, R/B D1AZ-6079-B, and R/B D60Z-6079-A.

July 1979 - shows that C3AZ-6008-D was R/B D70Z-6E078-A. In addition to what is shown in the January 1977 OSI for the C6AZ-6008-D, it is also shown as R/B D70Z-6078-A ; in addition to that shown in the 1977 OSI for C7AZ-6008-B, it is also shown as R/B D70Z-6078-A.

July 1981 - shows that D60Z-6079-A was R/B D1AZ-6079-B.

January 1983 - shows that D70Z-6078-A was R/B D9AZ-6E078-A.

January 1987 - shows that D70Z-6078-A was R/B D9AZ-6E078-A ; R/B D9AZ-6E078-C ; R/B D9AZ-6E078-E.

January 1990 - shows same as January 1987.

As you can see, from somewhere between July of 1974 and July of 1976, things become somewhat confusing with Part Numbers jumping back and forth, several revisions made during the same year, Basic Part Numbers changing from 6008 to 6078, 6079, etc.

An interesting observation in this "mess" is that of the C6AZ, C7AZ and C8ZZ - 6008's that appear in the 1960-68 MPC, and in the 1965-72 MPC ; only the C6AZ appears in the individual year MPC's (1967).

Another interesting observation is, at least based on the last OSI that I have (1990), none of the "original issue Part Numbers (C3AZ-6008-B, C6AZ-6008-D, C7AZ-6008-B, C8ZZ-6008-A) were ever designated "NR", nor were any of these four ever shown as being "Replaced By" one of the other four Part Numbers. In order to present some kind of "organized confusion" from this "mess", I have attached a spreadsheet using these four Part Numbers, and showing the different Part Numbers that replaced each. By doing this, hopefully and "end game" will be realized.

So, there it is, for what it's worth, a history of the 289 Complete Engine Overhaul Gasket Kit Part Numbers from 1964 through 1990.

Hope this helps ??

Bob
1966 Coupe, C Code, 3 Sp MT, 6T07C154XXX, Build Date 11/22/65
1967 Conv, C Code, C4, 7F03C154XXX, Actual Build Date 01/31/67