Author Topic: Carter CARBURETER X Fuel Pump number identification  (Read 3004 times)

Offline mustang matt

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Carter CARBURETER X Fuel Pump number identification
« on: December 09, 2020, 09:19:17 PM »
Good Evening one of my friends recently received a 64 K Code Fastback from his father that passed.  I am helping him go through a bunch of parts and helping him Identify parts that are original to the car.  I have a Carter CARBURETER X fuel pump with filter that is attached and am having a difficult time finding solid information on how to figure out what year the fuel pump is and what is original vs aftermarket period correct.  There is more info on 428 and boss 302 cars, but everything is a little bit vague and I can find no official literature for part numbers.  Some guidance would be appreciated. 

Numbers:

0-1648  (Casted on side)

D4 (Stamped on collar by pivot arm)

3716SA or 3116SA stamped on other side of collar by pivot arm (Second digit is difficult to see)


Thank you,

-Matt

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: Carter CARBURETER X Fuel Pump number identification
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2020, 11:21:56 PM »
Good Evening one of my friends recently received a 64 K Code Fastback from his father that passed.  I am helping him go through a bunch of parts and helping him Identify parts that are original to the car.  I have a Carter CARBURETER X fuel pump with filter that is attached and am having a difficult time finding solid information on how to figure out what year the fuel pump is and what is original vs aftermarket period correct.  There is more info on 428 and boss 302 cars, but everything is a little bit vague and I can find no official literature for part numbers.  Some guidance would be appreciated. 

Numbers:

0-1648  (Casted on side)

D4 (Stamped on collar by pivot arm)

3716SA or 3116SA stamped on other side of collar by pivot arm (Second digit is difficult to see)


Thank you,

-Matt
The clamshell screw together upper and lower half style pump with the integral fuel filter was used on the 64.5 K code. Because they were commonly rebuilt and may be a combination of parts from different fuel pump applications you can't always go by the flange number. To confirm what it works on you have to go by the pump arm contour . Big block engines of the same time period used a identical pump but with the different shaped big block pump arm. It may be helpful to post a picture to confirm that it has the small block pump arm.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline mustang matt

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Re: Carter CARBURETER X Fuel Pump number identification
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2020, 02:47:17 AM »
Here are some photos I hope this helps


Offline RoyceP

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Re: Carter CARBURETER X Fuel Pump number identification
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2020, 10:17:43 AM »
Looks like a 289 arm from here.
1968 W code 427 Cougar XR-7 GTE Feb 23 Dearborn C6 / 3.50 open
1968 R code 428CJ Cougar XR-7 May 13 Dearborn C6 / 3.91 T - Lock

Offline Dan Case

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Re: Carter CARBURETER X Fuel Pump number identification
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2020, 01:58:37 PM »
X = revised lower noise level assembly that Ford Motor Company requested (lower noise level assemblies than Carter(R) had been providing)

0-1648 = mold number for the main housing

8 = cavity number 8 of that mold

D4 = most likely means assembled originally April 1964

3716SA = was the original manufacturing number. A quick look found ones for sale for FE engines. As has been stated rebuilders usually mixed parts up back in the day. Mixed model parts is a very common problem in the old car hobby.  I have purchased as many as four "remanufactured" pumps to come up will all the good and correct parts to make one for a specific O.E. application.

Ford small block 260/289 c.i.d. wise the fuel pumps in this brand and design included in my database include manufacturing dates (dates pumps were made) ranges:

3568S followed by 3568SA = 1963 model year through Nov. 1962

3623S = Dec. 1962 through Aug. 1963*

3732S and a slightly different 3734S = Jul./Aug.  1963 through Jul. 1964

* 3623S pumps. Carter Carburetor Company(R) made two production runs for Shelby American's Cobras after August 1963. If you find one dated after August 1963 I would like to hear from you.

I don't have a comparison image of the 3568S/3568SA pumps but I do have a side by side for the 3623S and the 3732S/3734S designs.


« Last Edit: August 13, 2021, 01:19:28 PM by Dan Case »
Dan
1964 Cobra owner since 1983, Cobra crazy since I saw my first one in the mid 1960s in Huntsville, AL.

Offline jwc66k

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Re: Carter CARBURETER X Fuel Pump number identification
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2020, 04:11:34 PM »
X = revised lower noise level assembly that Ford Motor Company requested (lower noise level assemblies than Carter® had been providing)

0-1648 = mold number for the main housing

8 = cavity number 8 of that mold

D4 = most likely means assembled originally April 1964

3716SA = was the original manufacturing number. A quick look found ones for sale for FE engines. As has been stated rebuilders usually mixed parts up back in the day. Mixed model parts is a very common problem in the old car hobby.  I have purchased as many as four “remanufactured” pumps to come up will all the good and correct parts to make one for a specific O.E. application.

Ford small block 260/289 c.i.d. wise the fuel pumps in this brand and design included in my database include manufacturing dates (dates pumps were made) ranges:

3568S followed by 3568SA = 1963 model year through Nov. 1962

3623S = Dec. 1962 – Aug. 1963*

3732S and a slightly different 3734S = Jul./Aug.  1963 through Jul. 1964

* 3623S pumps. Carter Carburetor Company® made two production runs for Shelby American's Cobras after August 1963. If you find one dated after August 1963 I would like to hear from you.

I don't have a comparison image of the 3568S/3568SA pumps but I do have a side by side for the 3623S and the 3732S/3734S designs.


A very good educational piece on the evolution fuel pumps. I can see that Carter did incorporate a few tricks in their designs to keep individual tops and bottoms from getting mixed up in a rebuild, maybe in the original manufacturing process as well.
Jim
I promise to be politically correct in all my posts to keep the BBBB from vociferating.

Offline preaction

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Re: Carter CARBURETER X Fuel Pump number identification
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2020, 08:59:07 PM »
Dan, would other later year Carter fuel pumps similarly "X" marked signify a revised pump for noise reasons ?
8F02R218047-  July 18 1968   Dearborn

Offline Dan Case

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Re: Carter CARBURETER X Fuel Pump number identification
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2020, 11:01:39 PM »
Dan, would other later year Carter fuel pumps similarly "X" marked signify a revised pump for noise reasons ?

Good question. I just know the origin I found when researching fuel pumps and collecting data for Cobras 1962-1965.

1962 221 V8 used a General Motors(R) AC(R) division made fuel pump.

1962.5 introduced 260 V8 used a copy of the AC brand pump made by Holley Carburetor Company(R) (Cobras street and most race CSX2001-CSX2125 used this pump also with XHP-260, HP260, and 1963.5 HP 289 engines.)

1963 260 engines used the Carter Carburetor Company(R) 3568S pump until replaced by the 3623S model as 289 engines were introduced. (Cobras street and race CSX2126 onward used the 3623S pump.)

The GM(R), Holley(R), and Carter 3623S pumps all had the same ratings for fuel pressure and flow rate. I did not specially look up the 3568S/3568SA, 3732S, and 3734S pumps since none of them were Cobra parts.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2021, 01:18:07 PM by Dan Case »
Dan
1964 Cobra owner since 1983, Cobra crazy since I saw my first one in the mid 1960s in Huntsville, AL.

Offline mustang matt

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Re: Carter CARBURETER X Fuel Pump number identification
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2020, 05:34:52 PM »
Dan,

One of the biggest questions I have had is with manufacturing number. Does it have a specific date code embedded in it, is it just a number that was used for a few years until they produced a new batch/number, or does the number signify a specific motor when originally produced?  I see that some numbers were used during a few year period.  Does carter have a master sheet anywhere of manufacturing numbers?  Thank you for the help.

- Matt

Offline Dan Case

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Re: Carter CARBURETER X Fuel Pump number identification
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2020, 12:34:50 PM »
Dan,
One of the biggest questions I have had is with manufacturing number. Does it have a specific date code embedded in it, is it just a number that was used for a few years until they produced a new batch/number, or does the number signify a specific motor when originally produced?  I see that some numbers were used during a few year period.  Does carter have a master sheet anywhere of manufacturing numbers?  Thank you for the help.
- Matt

You are welcome, does not feel like I helped much.

It was not a "batch" situation.  It was some functional design change situation. Every engine and vehicle application would have its own model created if something was functionally different from a previous version for any reason. If the diameter of an exhaust port was changed, that would require a new identification. If the angle of a port changed, a new model would be required.  A 1964 260/289 pump is very similar to a pump for FE engines EXCEPT for the rocker arm design. Similar pumps for two different engine families required different identifications.  Hypothetical, imagine two pumps that look alike for the same engine and vehicle except one has runs at 5 psig and one runs at 12 psig would have meant a different model number.

If a master list existed it probably only exists in some literature collectors stuff somewhere now. When I was researching the pumps used on Cobras circa 2006-2010 the original company was already long gone. The brand name was owned by another company and they made nothing fuel related. All the "Carter"pumps being sold in the aftermarket were being made by a subcontractor of the day. A manager got me a contact name and information for the company that was actually making pumps  at the time under the brand name. I talked with one of the contractor's engineers for a while. He told me flat out they had none of the engineering files from the 1960s. I wanted to know the specifications for diaphragm springs. They would have made some ethanol resistant spring and diaphragm assemblies for me if I could have found the original pump drawings. No joy.

The model numbers got larger over time as the designs changed.  If you every leaf through a Ford MPC slowly you will see all kinds of "before" and "after" notations. Ford changed many parts frequently. In Fairlane engine parts there were often multiple parts revised, added, or superseded completely around the beginning of February and the middle of April every model year.  In working with Cobra owners and restorers I have to know the original HP289 engine serial number for the car, engine assembly date, induction system option level ordered for the car if applicable, and which location installed the drive train to be able to even have clue which version of carburetor was in use at the time.

As illustrated in my Fairlane 260/289 related post above Ford did not always use a model of pump and entire model year. The 3568S model was used August 1962 until about mid December 1962. It was replaced by the 3623S which was used the second half of the 1963 Ford model year.   In the case of 1962 Fairlane Ford used GM(R) made pumps for the whole 1962 model year for 221 V8s and used Holley(R) brand pumps for 260 V8s from their 1962.5 model year introduction through the end of 1962 model year production.


There is one real good example of Ford and Carter reusing a model number twice and that was the 3623S pump. Designed for Fairlanes they were also used in Cobras CSX2126 onward. The pump went obsolete for main stream Fords when the 1963 model year ended in the summer of 1963. Unfortunately for Shelby American the 3732S and 3734S models that replaced the 3623S model would not work in a Cobra because of a physical interference problem with fuel lines.  Carter made two manufacturing runs of 1963 model year 3623S pumps months past the start of the 1964 model year run for new Cobras. Fords dropped the 3623S in summer 1963. Shelby installed 1963 model year 3623S pumps in new Cobras all the way into what they called 1965 model year Cobras in year 1965 when the last ones were completed. The actual supply chain was Shelby American had to create a purchase order to Ford Motor Company for pumps. Ford had to issue an purchase order to Carter for manufacture and delivery to Shelby American.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2021, 01:16:38 PM by Dan Case »
Dan
1964 Cobra owner since 1983, Cobra crazy since I saw my first one in the mid 1960s in Huntsville, AL.