Topic: 1970 Dearborn Mach I Sound Deadener

[sbted95]

Hi guys.  I am in the process of restoring the underside of my 1970 Mach 1.  I am looking to spray undercoating tomorrow.  If my searches were correct, I should be spraying the rear wheel wells and transmission tunnel, correct?  Approximately, where did the transmission tunnel undercoating typically start and end on a Dearborn car?  Also, did the undecoating in the tunnel go all the way up the tunnel sides?  I know the wheel well undercoating will be shot with body color.  Will the tunnel get sprayed with red oxide after the undercoating dries?  Thanks in advance!

[J_Speegle]

First welcome to the site - hope you find the site useful

First (just to keep things clean and easy to understand

The factory didn't apply undercoating the dealer did. Ford applied sound deadener. Yes they are similar products but we try and keep people/owners from confusing the two so we use different terms.

With that out of the way you'll have two applications of sound deadener

One before the exterior paint is applied (like the trunk, interior  & rear wheelwells)

And a second application after the car is partially assembled (front wheelwells and floor if you have a Mach I or Grande)

This would be over the paint

If your R code was not a Mach I (body code 5) then it likely didn't get the floor application


While on the subject you mention red oxide on the tunnel and I would guess floor. Is there a reason your applying/using red oxide on a 70 Dearborn car?


Will find some pictures to illustrate the sound deadener application on the floor of other cars like yours

[sbted95]

Thanks for the response Jeff.  I have been using this site for a while and GREATLY value your input.  You are a wealth of knowledge.  I have read a ton of your posts to try to learn as much as possible.  Heck, to make my car right, I am half tempted to fly you out to Oregon to consult so I don't jack anything up! 

My car is a 1970 Candy Apple red R code Mach 1 with 49k original miles.  The original black interior is in excellent shape.  So, I kept it that way.  Maybe 20-25 years ago, someone tried to update the underside of the car.  So, I am redoing it.  All the major mechanical components are out of the car and have been rebuilt.

Back to the topic....I apologize for the undercoating vs. sound deadener.  I am mainly looking at the application of sound deadener to the belly of the car.  While I feel like I have done and redone a few things multiple times, I just want to get it right...or close to it.  I stripped down the belly of the car down to metal.  After a few steps, the product that I currently have now is the belly of the car painted red oxide with candy apple red paint sprayed in from the sides (covering the first rough foot of the floor pans from the side).  I have also applied deadener to the rear wheel wells.  My next steps (advise otherwise) were to:

(1) Paint candy apple paint over the rear wheel wells, side of the frame from the wheel well, and on the sides by the fuel tank (the tank is out)
(2) Apply deadener to the transmission tunnel (I was told this is a must) although I like the clean look it has without it...
(3) I have the rear end, shocks, springs, etc. ready for install.  But, I want to get any painting done before install.  I have the shocks semi gloss black, springs charcoal, rear end gloss black, red oxide, natural with the brake lines all cleaned or new.

With all of this said, here are a few questions:
(1) Is red oxide the wrong finished color for the belly of a Dearborn car?  Sorry if that sounds ignorant.  But, this truly is the color I though mine and the majority of Dearborn cars were! 
(2) As the painter shot the underside as it rolled down the  line, what underside parts should be body color?  I assume the floor pan sides, rear wheel wells, side of the gas tank, etc.?
(3) What color should the floor of the car be (my interior is completely out)?

Sorry to ask a ton of questions.  I cannot thank you enough for your time.  I will owe you lunch.  Thanks.

Steve

[J_Speegle]

Thanks for the response Jeff.  I have been using this site for a while and GREATLY value............  Heck, to make my car right, I am half tempted to fly you out to Oregon to consult so I don't jack anything up! 

Thanks for the kind works but that is what we're here for.

Wouldn't be the first nor 50th time I've done a prepaint visit   Heck Oregon is close - its the locations on the east side of the US - especially this time of year with the weather- that are a pain to get to at time

Back to the topic....I apologize for the undercoating vs. sound deadener.  I am mainly looking at the application of sound deadener to the belly of the car.  ............After a few steps, the product that I currently have now is the belly of the car painted red oxide with candy apple red paint sprayed in from the sides (covering the first rough foot of the floor pans from the side).  I have also applied deadener to the rear wheel wells. 

I guess we should stop here and ask when was the car built at Dearborn in 70's so we can focus on a specific period (hopefully)

My next steps (advise otherwise) were to:

(1) Paint candy apple paint over the rear wheel wells, side of the frame from the wheel well, and on the sides by the fuel tank (the tank is out)
(2) Apply deadener to the transmission tunnel (I was told this is a must) although I like the clean look it has without it...
(3) I have the rear end, shocks, springs, etc. ready for install.  But, I want to get any painting done before install.  I have the shocks semi gloss black, springs charcoal, rear end gloss black, red oxide, natural with the brake lines all cleaned or new.

Looks as if (like 69) the sound deadener for the Mach and Grande was three passes - one down the center then one down each side of the floor - while the worker walked down the center of the car. This helps understand the typical shadows produced by such an application

(1) Is red oxide the wrong finished color for the belly of a Dearborn car?  Sorry if that sounds ignorant.  But, this truly is the color I though mine and the majority of Dearborn cars were! 

I've not seen/found a red oxide 70 Dearborn car yet. Not that I see as many examples (70 was a fairly low production year and I see less Dearborn originals than San Jose but more than NJ) So I'm thinking a batch color (too bad you didn't take some pictures of what originally was there) This includes the front frame rails, inner fender panels and exterior surface of the shock towers before body color was applied

(2) As the painter shot the underside as it rolled down the  line, what underside parts should be body color? I assume the floor pan sides, rear wheel wells, side of the gas tank, etc.?

We normally see body color overspray (also dependent on how tall the painter was, how old and how much they bent over that day) on the floor, rear spring support pan, front frame rails ( basically anything that hung down) and on the floor pan - fading as we get closer to the center of the car

In the rear wheel wells think like a painter. They shot the wheel lip so the paint went directly on the wheelwell around the lip - leaving a little shadow from the lip. Then passing the gun across the wheel well opening  (they didn't stop the flow of the gun nor went around the opening typically) everything you can see from the outside of the wheel well got paint along with some overspray and paint float inside the frame rail

(3) What color should the floor of the car be (my interior is completely out)?

Floor inside would have been red oxide with some light gray overspray and allot of body color overspray

Get back to me on a date (when the car was built)

From there we can look to see what other cars from that time period had for undercarriage colors and get some floor sound deadener pictures posted from that plant and year


PS - Modified your threads title to better reflect the discussion - for those that follow

[sbted95]

Thanks again Jeff!  The car was built December 19th, 1969 and was sold new in Indiana.  As I stripped the inside of the car, it definitely looked like old red oxide or a shade of red.  I thought the floor was red oxide.  So, I have shot it that color.  At least I got that one right...for the most part! 

The underside original color was a tad more difficult since it has been stripped once.  In some of the more "hidden" spots they may have overlooked, it looked like a gray/pink.  I guess I just went with red oxide since it seems like the most common color.  This will now be changed.

Thank you yet again.  Heck, as this car comes together, I may hit you up to venture north!    Have an excellent weekend.

Steve

[J_Speegle]

Thanks again Jeff!  The car was built December 19th, 1969 ............

Thanks Steve


First floor color. Looking at what I've got currently here is at least a sample of shat they were using during that period. Pretty typical of 69 batch colors (a bit lighter)  but many different versions of batch or slop paint was used in 70. Though again this is what I found for your period. Same color/paint appears to have been applied by hand from the firewall forward also which would show up on the bottom of the front frame rails and some into the front wheelwells





As for sound deadener - again it appears three passes with the wand while the worker stood/walked down the car under the driveline tunnel. This produced shadows where the front frame rails blocked the application on the side and began (in the center pass) from the end of the trans to almost the rear end snubber. Side sound deadener application typically stopped about the same spot (before the floor bent upward towards and over the rear end - just above the rear inner seat belt anchors.

Because of the angle the rear floor pan bend upward to form the rear seat platform created a shadow also in most examples

First couple of pictures show the sound deadener though with the low contrast between dirt, grime and the sound deadener








So I high lighted the areas where it appears on the example the sound deadener was applied. Though not shown clearly in one of these pictures the E brake cable was in place when they sprayed this sound deadener so it left a thin shadow on the floors - difficult at times to reproduce since we often apply the product in multiple passes where originally it was done in one








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Hope you didn't forget the dolly marks the first time you painted the floor pan/undercarriage. I guess if your going to correct it you can catch that detail on the second attempt

[sbted95]

Wow!  You gave me a ton of detail.  Thanks!  The first floor color almost looks like a dark green in the top picture.  I assume the factory would use what ever color they had left, regardless of the color of the car, correct?  I have heard some slop colors are more gray or even pink.  Do you see a fairly common slop color used...with red cars?  Thanks again!  BTW, I was looking at the parts that came off of my rig.  It looks like the shocks I have are from the factory.  I started lightly sanding on the rear shocks.  They are black on the outside and seem to be a red primer underneath.  Does this match with your information.  I can give you the part numbers if you would like.

[J_Speegle]

Wow!  You gave me a ton of detail.  Thanks!  The first floor color almost looks like a dark green in the top picture.  I assume the factory would use what ever color they had left, regardless of the color of the car, correct? 

Didn't matter what color the exterior was going to be - all cars that shift/period got the paint out of the same vat/barrel   Normally/often the batch was a dark grey with a slight blue or green tint - what ever they painted more of when the left over exterior color barrels were emptied

I have heard some slop colors are more gray or even pink.   

Base was still an epoxy primer - likely a light gray in 70 at Dearborn. Never seen a pink in 70 at Dearborn. Others may be mixing plants and years - its common

In 70-73 we can find a few more with a stronger green or even an orangish tint but didn't find that in the period your car was built

Do you see a fairly common slop color used...with red cars?  Thanks again!

Read your first question in this post "  I assume the factory would use what ever color they had left, regardless of the color of the car, correct? "

NO connection between the under carriage color (slop or batch) and the exterior or interior color - except for the overspray paint

BTW, I was looking at the parts that came off of my rig.  It looks like the shocks I have are from the factory.  I started lightly sanding on the rear shocks.  They are black on the outside and seem to be a red primer underneath.

Would guess the red primer was from the last owner/builder that took your car apart. Never seen an original shock where they didn't just paint it with the semi-gloss black (no primer)

[sbted95]

Thanks!  No more questions for now.  I cannot thank you enough!  You have taught me a TON of information.  This will definitely keep me busy for a while now that I have a solid direction to head in...thanks to you.  Have an excellent rest of the weekend.

[carm]

Hi Jeff,

I also want to thank you for all this much appreciated information. You know that we are greatfull for the passion that you and others on this forum demonstrate every day.

And again, I have a question. : The diagram showing the locations of the dolly marks is really great, thanks. The locations are highlighted by yellow arrows, but there seems to be 2 extra bare metal marks beside the ones on the rear frame rails at the back. These two are not highlighted with yellow arrows, but do we replicate them also? Carm.

[J_Speegle]

And again, I have a question. : The diagram showing the locations of the dolly marks is really great, thanks. The locations are highlighted by yellow arrows, but there seems to be 2 extra bare metal marks beside the ones on the rear frame rails at the back. These two are not highlighted with yellow arrows, but do we replicate them also? Carm.

Thanks for mentioning those and providing me an opportunity to expound on them

Those "extra" dolly marks are two additional round shadows produced on the rear frame rails of Mustangs during the paint process. They were mounting points on the dolly for Cougars which were built on the same line at Dearborn that year. So yes they should be reproduced on a 69 or 70 Mustang built at Dearborn

Thanks for the kind words. Only trying to keep others from making the same mistakes I have in the past and building a base/foundation from which others can build from.

[Crgjohnson]

Great information. Thanks Jeff. This answered many questions that I had on correct sound deadner locations

[J_Speegle]

That's what we strive for