Topic: Correct brake MC for 68' power discs - Metuchen

[mungus]

I have the correct Midland booster / servo for my 68' S code FB, but I now have an idea my MC may have been replaced at some stage.

It came with an old looking, seized up, USA made, Wagner Lockheed 1";  casting IDPFF-78228, with hand stamps XEK12 and 71248 (small).
It was semi-gloss black (inc cap), which I have been told is factory correct finish. So my hopes were high, however some googling has revealed a few folk saying they have this MC on their power disc cars as a replacement unit...

I have a probable FORD PN; C7OZ-2140-J for V8's of my date range in (March 1968).
However I can't seem to find a manufacturer, etc. Anybody know? Brand (Fomoco?), model number?

[Bob Gaines]

I have the correct Midland booster / servo for my 68' S code FB, but I now have an idea my MC may have been replaced at some stage.

It came with an old looking, seized up, USA made, Wagner Lockheed 1";  casting IDPFF-78228, with hand stamps XEK12 and 71248 (small).
It was semi-gloss black (inc cap), which I have been told is factory correct finish. So my hopes were high, however some googling has revealed a few folk saying they have this MC on their power disc cars as a replacement unit...

I have a probable FORD PN; C7OZ-2140-J for V8's of my date range in (March 1968).
However I can't seem to find a manufacturer, etc. Anybody know? Brand (Fomoco?), model number?

The MC is a Bendix unit from the factory. It has a casting number of 2227161 . There are other smaller details that are the difference between assemblyline and replacement but that is the main hurdle to get past. .

[mungus]

Thanks Bob, much appreciated. It's something to start my search with anyway.

[mungus]

This one I guess... this is a restored one on eBay right now.
Sorry about the file size! I'll try to reduce it later (on the iPad now).
Funny thing is CJ's are selling a replica of these but say it's only for 1969-1972 mustangs.
I'm thinking about running one of the copies for daily driving but having a restored original on the shelf for posterity. (My car won't be a trailer queen)

http://www.cjponyparts.com/brake-master-cylinder-power-disc-drum-with-oe-style-cap-and-lettering-1969-1972/p/BMC73/

So are CJ's right (they are not always IME), or is this type of MC correct for 1967-68 too?
I've compared the photos of this original vs. the CJ's copy and apart from the missing date code and Bendix logo underneath, they look the same... I've read about the Boss 429 versions with a smaller bore and bigger ports, however they supposedly wear a different casting number.

To my mind if it's a faithfully copied 2227161 casting and the cap and wire etc, is correct then what's the problem running it on a 68' S code? Did they change something in 69? There is a brake parts restorer on eBay who claims his restored 2227161 units fit mustangs from 1967-1970.

[krelboyne]

Does that say INDIA? That cap is pretty sucky.

[Bob Gaines]

This one I guess... this is a restored one on eBay right now.
Sorry about the file size! I'll try to reduce it later (on the iPad now).
Funny thing is CJ's are selling a replica of these but say it's only for 1969-1972 mustangs.
I'm thinking about running one of the copies for daily driving but having a restored original on the shelf for posterity. (My car won't be a trailer queen)

http://www.cjponyparts.com/brake-master-cylinder-power-disc-drum-with-oe-style-cap-and-lettering-1969-1972/p/BMC73/

So are CJ's right (they are not always IME), or is this type of MC correct for 1967-68 too?
I've compared the photos of this original vs. the CJ's copy and apart from the missing date code and Bendix logo underneath, they look the same... I've read about the Boss 429 versions with a smaller bore and bigger ports, however they supposedly wear a different casting number.

To my mind if it's a faithfully copied 2227161 casting and the cap and wire etc, is correct then what's the problem running it on a 68' S code? Did they change something in 69? There is a brake parts restorer on eBay who claims his restored 2227161 units fit mustangs from 1967-1970.

I would not hazard  to try and explain why CJ does the things or sells the things they do. The same master can be used on 67-70 you can believe me or CJ . You choose. The repro master is a excellent alternative for a driver car. There are a few distinct differences that you overlooked. The main one is the mounting flange is a different shape . It becomes more apparent when you compare the two.  The stop bolt although similar to the 67 style is a different shape for 68-70. Of course it does not have a Bendix casting mark or Julian date code format. It is more then "supposedly" that  Boss 429 master is different . They have different internals besides a different casting and casting number.

[Bob Gaines]

Of course you know that there is a difference in master cylinder caps between 67 68 and 69/70  also. There have been other threads about that subject done before.

[mungus]

Of course you know that there is a difference in master cylinder caps between 67 68 and 69/70  also. There have been other threads about that subject done before.

Thanks for pointing out the differences Bob, I'll have another look and decide. I have no doubt of your knowledge over CJ's. I've had several chats with their sales staff and more than once the person who picked up had no clue.
I've also been dissatisfied with a couple of their so called "concours" products upon receipt, claiming to be correct and being far from it. (ill fitting Chinese junk, brass brake junctions made of bright zinc steel etc, etc)

I've chased up the caps comment and read the PDF by Marcus Anghel, so have just ordered a couple of these...
One for my daily driver reproduction and one for the posterity original. I can see why CJ's may have said 69 onwards now too. The cap on theirs is the the deeply embossed one used after early 69'. Luckily I have one that isn't so I can paint it all semi gloss black and apply the decal. Even on the reproduction I think only a trained eye such as yours would likely spot it! :-)

[mungus]

I would not hazard  to try and explain why CJ does the things or sells the things they do. The same master can be used on 67-70 you can believe me or CJ . You choose. The repro master is a excellent alternative for a driver car. There are a few distinct differences that you overlooked. The main one is the mounting flange is a different shape . It becomes more apparent when you compare the two.  The stop bolt although similar to the 67 style is a different shape for 68-70. Of course it does not have a Bendix casting mark or Julian date code format. It is more then "supposedly" that  Boss 429 master is different . They have different internals besides a different casting and casting number.

Yes I saw it's a hex headed stop bolt in the repro vs. a button head Allen key. So the chief difference would be the mounting flange shape. Attached. So perhaps it's worth a go. CJ's even have them on special at present. I was going to run the Scott Drake offering I have in a box in my barn, but that looks nothing like as 68' correct as these reproductions (if I can call it that).

Then I can restore an OEM core at my leisure.

[jwc66k]

- -  knowledge over CJ's. I've had several chats with their sales staff and more than once the person who picked up had no clue.
I've also been dissatisfied with a couple products upon receipt, claiming to be correct and being far from it.

Many others have determined this as well. It's part of the "let the buyer beware" syndrome.
Jim

[Bob Gaines]

Thanks for pointing out the differences Bob, I'll have another look and decide. I have no doubt of your knowledge over CJ's. I've had several chats with their sales staff and more than once the person who picked up had no clue.
I've also been dissatisfied with a couple products upon receipt, claiming to be correct and being far from it.

I can't count how many times i have had to inform someone about problems with items purchased from CJ. I am tired of it especially when the buyer wants to shot the messenger with some snaky remark after given the bad news. Satisfaction level will go up tremendously with ether Virginia or NPD. they are not perfect ether but night and day better odds of getting a better experience in regards to quality and descriptions.  It might have something tho do with both being members of this forum and expertise in concours judging. As I said before that particular recently available  repo master (different then others available ) is a excellent low price alternative to the assemblyline type.

[jwc66k]

Satisfaction level will go up tremendously with ether Virginia or NPD.

Here, here! I've been communicating with them successfully for a long time (but with restraint and on a friendly basis).
Jim

[mungus]

I've only bought a couple of things from NPD and they were just fine. I've also found they carry some small parts that other suppliers didn't. This topic is a clear example of that. They had the cap decal, none of the others I checked did. 

However I found CJs website much easier to follow when I first got my S code, and was still finding my way around Mustangs, they gave me some small discounts after a few orders, and I liked their little customer extras like how to videos etc., even though in reality I didn't need them. However as I say, their advice and descriptions aren't IMHO reliable. I have a decent sized order about to ship from them, but it may be the last like that.

But since NPD sent me one of their excellent paper catalogues I've decided to give them more of my business. They do seem to have the parts I want at good prices, it's just I couldn't find them so easily on line as on paper.
I find it helps if you have the exact PN to put in their search engine, rather than a description. And I've found that even a description that's fairly close to the product I want often doesn't get hits in their search engine. That's probably why I shyed away from them at the start. Possibly something they could improve on...
Mustang depot and CJ's have got upwards of 20k worth of sales from me in the last year or so, purely because they are for me at least, easier to webshop.