ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Suspension => Topic started by: Maksim27 on December 09, 2022, 07:33:01 PM
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Guys I have a pair of NOS later service parts LCA's that I want to restore to Assembly Line Correct. I need to replace some parts like the rivets, retainer, boot. I did find extra spot welds on the LCA's and not sure if that could be a point deduction or not concours enough... I know that Factory and early NOS service parts LCAs had only 2 Spot welds. My used later LCA's also have 2 spot welds.... Does it really matter if it is 4 spot welds on each arm or not really a major concern for correctness.
The last 2 in my picture are my used control arms that have the correct 2 spot welds.
I need to know before sending the LCA's off to Marcus for riveting them... I can send my used control arms but I messed up the upper threads when removing the arms several years ago with a ball joint press. Or maybe remove the rivets and swap the new ball joints into the used LCA's but the used LCA's do have surface pitting... Probably dipped paint would cover the pitting. I think I answered my own question, but looking for suggestions.
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To the first part of your question
Guys I have a pair of NOS later service parts LCA's that I want to restore to Assembly Line Correct. I need to replace some parts like the rivets, retainer, boot. I did find extra spot welds on the LCA's and not sure if that could be a point deduction or not concours enough...
If there is a difference and the judge or judges notice it yes its an opportunity to lose points. The question is will they notice it. You'll have to wait and wonder every time to the end of the show before you'll find out if they did or didn't. Leaving ANY door open leaves you open to the possibility unless there is a related note on the judging sheets or in the rules that state that something is exempt from deduction like there are, for example, for some details/parts in MCA Driver class.
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Guys I was just wondering if these LCA ball joints came from the original supplier to Ford back in the 60s. They seem to look correct as Factory and was wondering if in fact this design is being reproduced or is authentic 60s version. I'm looking to probably purchasing them as I damaged my upper thread when removing mine several years ago with a ball joint press. I'm thinking of drilling off the rivets on mine and then shipping the LCA's to Marcus for riveting. Yes I know the retainer is flat and I'll need a retainer that has a edge which I found on NPD but they say it is for 67 LCA's not sure if could work for 66 LCA's. I put 2 different links below... The first link is for the ball joints, and the second link is for the retainer.
Jan 66 200 C4 San Jose
https://www.ebay.com/itm/192698949207?hash=item2cddc09e57:g:l9MAAOxyxpxQ8AJa&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4CHxAYVCS22PXV6xczq3ftKGyW2d2VRmF1h1R2F9widxfhvamqOHubHi%2BNnWHnkkwGx7fYqUAOGX%2BaTcyoHYngkiK1ZnAJe0NgSRo5%2FmLwOl4MwsmQIZu8N6M2n9yO6yeQiUkYQKIeMqDTMdY5sFgJL9r94bxeRuXMsE7y7lmyGL8X%2FSCZYJQKwoDghwAasAOHxvpF5LfdnTt6LtbgxSUoDkQARJLqQQXTg7VQTE%2B4ypTMuBwEgkn9OLrwuuEz0YOEOkDCzoWxJ13WlzWw3AzSS32QCTLmm%2BXf43sKWC9u9C%7Ctkp%3ABFBM7LLep6Fh
https://www.npdlink.com/product/retainer-and-gasket-lower-ball-joint-seal/169695?backurl=search%2Fproducts%3Fsearch_terms%3Dball%252Bjoint%26top_parent%3D200001%26year%3D
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The problem with replacing the entire ball joint assembly like that is the original ones were spot welded to the control arm. It's possible to maybe drill out the spot weld from the old ball joint plate side as to not damage the control arm. Although, then you're faced with how to spot weld the new one on and make it look correct.
Lower ball joints usually do not wear anything like the uppers. Unless the boots were torn open/rotted and water collected inside the ball joint, they are likely ok. Drilling out the rivets to replace the seal and boots will allow the ball socket/stud to be inspected. Most I've disassembled looked perfectly fine inside.
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I kind of messed up my upper threads while using a compress tool several years ago... You can see in the pictures below. Don't know if only the thread ball rod can be replaced only. Maybe if prying those 3 tabs.
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Yes, that can all be replaced and leave the spot welded bracket on the control arm. I usually remove all of that to restore a control arm. Tumble the arm and lower retainer, get the plate zinc plated and then have the ball joint with a new boot riveted on.
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Guys I have a pair of NOS later service parts LCA's that I want to restore to Assembly Line Correct...
... I did find extra spot welds on the LCA's and not sure if that could be a point deduction or not concours enough... I know that Factory and early NOS service parts LCAs had only 2 Spot welds. My used later LCA's also have 2 spot welds.... Does it really matter if it is 4 spot welds on each arm or not really a major concern for correctness.
...I need to know before sending the LCA's off to Marcus for riveting them... I can send but looking for suggestions.
Can you disguise the extra spot welds on the Service Part to match original? Even if it requires disassembly and reassembly, it could be another path to go down.
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The die to re-thread the stud is fairly inexpensive. (edit: My 67 is 9/16-18 NF; I think 65-70 are all the same; $11 on Amazon)
I don't think the welded on lower plate is there for any other reason but to keep all the individual parts lined up prior to riveting. It's not structural. When you send these in for re-rivit use bolts to keep things aligned.
I cut out the spot welds on the top since this is much thinner metal than the bottom. I then filled the holes with the MIG, put a new crater in there and finished up with blueing (or a torch if you prefer).
I've filled gouges and holes by using the MIG and grinding the repair down with a small high speed sanding disc. You can also fill UCA gouges from chiseling this way. You can't see them later.
I do so hate messing with control arms and if there is a next time I will farm it out or buy re-pops and take the point hit.
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I was thinking to purchase the new ball joints that is in the link and just use the stud, underside grease cup, dust boot... The dust boot does seem to be correct as back then the original dust boot had a plastic or metal ring depending on supplier. I do have reproduction metal ring dust boots also. My grease cup does show pitting and that's why I'm thinking of replacing it. My stud like I mentioned has nicks on the top of the thread...Maybe MIG weld it, but easier to just change the stud for a new stud.
So basically when I purchase the new ball Joint, I'll just pry the 3 tabs and remove the parts...I'll only keep the welded bracket, and put the new parts with the ball joint and crimp back those 3 tab. Do you guys think that can work... The new ball joint looks the same as the old ball joint... Probably the same service supplier from back in the 60s even if they are rebranded. Just my guess.
I already purchased correct retainer ring and gasket from CJs... Just need to remove the rivets and hopefully the set-up will work...Then ship to Marcus for riveting.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/192698949207?hash=item2cddc09e57:g:l9MAAOxyxpxQ8AJa&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4CHxAYVCS22PXV6xczq3ftKGyW2d2VRmF1h1R2F9widxfhvamqOHubHi%2BNnWHnkkwGx7fYqUAOGX%2BaTcyoHYngkiK1ZnAJe0NgSRo5%2FmLwOl4MwsmQIZu8N6M2n9yO6yef35z3u4Wxq5H2aQi6yCegWcyljUkFwmH00ntTq%2BUeYb1pi5kRrmh6dZcApc6qoUyXCLg%2FeJILW8jXMeLpn5PJyNqE7hGibIAuRoQelhuwnOaKX08rn74o8j2abzBNKSFqxuDTO6hPUzrqsAfn5zF%2FPE1aV%2BJiANCp5p2JkmY6CY%7Ctkp%3ABFBMtueYhKNh
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Is there a way to pry off the three tabs while the ball joint is spot welded to the LCA, as I removed the rivets on both control arms. I was thinking of cleaning out the Factory NOS grease, so I can apply new grease when the LCA's get finished getting restored. Kind a seems impossible to pry the three tabs from my observation. Only one center outer tab can probably be pried, but not sure that will allow for me to remove the lower ball joint.
Another way I was thinking of using ISP alcohol to pour it inside, but not sure that will clean it as the ball joint is tight, but does have cut grooves.
Or just leave the grease alone in the ball joint and not do anything...Can that effect anything if I use new dark purple Motorcraft grease through the zerk with a grease gun.
FYI: I removed the black paint from the ball joint area to get a better observation... Kind a has that dip look...I might remove all the paint as I have paint scratches and paint missing... But then again I might just keep the paint as I'm doing a driver concours and like that raw look. This black paint was a later NOS Factory spray paint. To achieve the line I used blue tape and a citrus paint remover...
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I have 2 different reproduction LCA dust boots... Which one could be more correct. Or I can use both styles. Ordered these boots from NPD and they sent me these different styles. Still trying to find NOS boots, but no luck, and this is all I got. The last picture is the typical NOS that looks correct except for the numbers. Also original boots seems to be nearly impossible to find nowadays and should be saved for more concours K:code cars.
Was also wondering...should I paint the upper boots with the dark green paint as seen on the NOS boots??? Possibly original boots also had the dark green circular paint on the top. Probably some styles didn't have dark green circular paint on the top.
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I have 2 different reproduction LCA dust boots... Which one could be more correct. Or I can use both styles. Ordered these boots from NPD and they sent me these different styles. Still trying to find NOS boots, but no luck, and this is all I got. The last picture is the typical NOS that looks correct except for the numbers. Also original boots seems to be nearly impossible to find nowadays and should be saved for more concours K:code cars.
Was also wondering...should I paint the upper boots with the dark green paint as seen on the NOS boots??? Possibly original boots also had the dark green circular paint on the top. Probably some styles didn't have dark green circular paint on the top.
You could use ether style just make sure you use a pair that are the same. I would not worry about the green paint.
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Is one or the other more correct for a San Jose car...Or it doesn't matter as the LCA's were made by different suppliers.
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Is one or the other more correct for a San Jose car...Or it doesn't matter as the LCA's were made by different suppliers.
The style of ether is similar to the OEM but nether given they are not OEM is better then the other in this case.
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The style of ether is similar to the OEM but nether given they are not OEM is better then the other in this case.
+1 From the judging angle both could be reasons for deduction depending on organization, class and finally the judges making up the team that day.
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/6-100123215022-182142094.jpeg)
Sine the title of the thread asks about later service parts I thought I would post and earlier one for comparison
A very early service replacement/NOS ball joint without the supporting ring on the boot not the green we typically see on other NOS boots. Used a cardboard tube to protect the boot rather than the plastic cover
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/11/6-160918225055.jpeg)
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Speegle are those both Uppers NOS or reproduction... They look great for being reproductions...Wish I can find reproductions to look like that... They're probably OEM...
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Speegle are those both Uppers NOS or reproduction... They look great for being reproductions...Wish I can find reproductions to look like that... They're probably OEM...
NOS
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Didn't know Ford made NOS service parts dust boots for 64-66... Probably for 1964 from the Falcon line. I thought only in 1967 Ford serviced the dust boots.
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+1 From the judging angle both could be reasons for deduction depending on organization, class and finally the judges making up the team that day.
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/6-100123215022-182142094.jpeg)
Sine the title of the thread asks about later service parts I thought I would post and earlier one for comparison
A very early service replacement/NOS ball joint without the supporting ring on the boot not the green we typically see on other NOS boots. Used a cardboard tube to protect the boot rather than the plastic cover
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/11/6-160918225055.jpeg)
Its to bad they chose to stop the use of the screw driver slot on the top of the ball joints its pretty handy.