ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Misc Items => Topic started by: Brant on November 19, 2009, 07:23:51 PM
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NOTE: This thread is a composite of (so far) four threads on the same subject
I know it is generally accepted that the 65-66 cars had Autolite stamped alternators.
I'm just wondering if anyone has any images of an original, production line alternator that was stamped. I've seen just a few factory photos, and none of them seem to have alternators that were stamped (at least you can't see the stamp on the top of the alternator-may have had the stamp on the bottom side.)
I also have a few original alternators and cannot see any remnants of a stamp. Granted, after many years, it may be difficult to see something like this.
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Brant, you might review the thread that was active on the SAAC site a couple weeks ago about the same subject . It has pictures and discussion. I surprised you didn't catch it.Bob
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Would agree that few had the ink stamp on the top of the alternator but a few do (as well as double stamped) so we have the possibility. Prefer to have them stamped on the bottom.
Would check out the thread as Bob mentioned - we can discuss further if anything is left after than trek ;)
But in a effort to help members here - here are a couple of examples
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/Paint%20Marks/FoMoCoAltstamp.jpg)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/Paint%20Marks/AutoliteAltstamp.jpg)
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...jeez...I don't know how I missed that thread either. It is going to take a while to sort through that one!
Thanks, guys!
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Yes like may there threads can take some side trips due to a couple of the usual suspects - LOL
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Yes like may there threads can take some side trips due to a couple of the usual suspects - LOL
Jeff,
You are right. That thread started with a simple question and went wild-like a lot of threads! Great information though.
Thanks again to you and Bob for pointing me there.
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Does anyone know what the correct size, length and width, of
the Autolite stamp on the alternator on a late May SJ HiPo car.
thanks,
Dave
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I believe the size is 2 1/4" X 7/8".
Dave
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Dave, thanks for they reply
Dave
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Dave,
I had a few of these stamps made up for some of the guys on the hipo site. I still have one left if you would like it. Let me know.
Dave
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Dave,
Can you email me a picture of what the stamp looks like after is stamped
and how much you want for it. My email is listed on my profile.
Thanks,
Dave
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-Should the "AUTOLITE" stamp be GOLD or REDDISH on this unit-its a July 27th scheduled build date from Dearborn, 1965, 289 HIPO. Thanks!
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The color of the stamp depends on the rating of the alternator. The most typical is a 42A, which would have an orange color stamp. 38A was purple. If I recall correctly, there was also a 50A and 60A option.
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Thanks Charles! My alternator is a 42amp unit, its stamping is kinda gold looking over the reddish oranges I've seen at the shows....
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Thanks Charles! My alternator is a 42amp unit, its stamping is kinda gold looking over the reddish oranges I've seen at the shows....
A light to medium orange color is probably the most common.
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Could someone clarify if a 65 standard alternator (no ac or power anything) had the autolite ink stamp from new
I read some where that 65 may or may not have hade the ink stamp applied
Car is SJ 4 speed July 65 build no ac
Thanks
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According to the MCA Judging rules 1965 may not have a stamp have the Autolite ink stamp.
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It is my understanding that the '65s anyway had the stamp applied to the bottom (when viewed installed) but I have had my alternator restored by Jack at Dead Nuts On and he applied the stamp to the bottom and the top......
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1965 wasn't the only alternator to have the stamp on the bottom of V8 equipped cars. Go to the drivetrain section of this web site reference 1968 starters and you'll see a engine being installed in a 1968 Cougar. The alternator stamp is clearly on the bottom of the unit.
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Could someone clarify if a 65 standard alternator (no ac or power anything) had the autolite ink stamp from new
I read some where that 65 may or may not have hade the ink stamp applied
Car is SJ 4 speed July 65 build no ac
Thanks
It would typically have a ink stamp seen from the bottom when mounted on a late production 65 . In early 1969 Ford started having the alternators metal stamped instead of ink stamped. Jack Brooks stamps his alts in both places because of pressure from the restored crowd to have the stamp in the most typical place (seen from the bottom) and also in a place where the detail is readily seen but much less typical (top side).
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Could someone clarify if a 65 standard alternator (no ac or power anything) had the autolite ink stamp from new
...........
Would have to check - possibly FoMoCo not sure when the change over was on alternators
As far as the current reproductions - we have seen a very small number of double stamped housings - not sure if this was according to plan or my mistake. Either way it allows someone to double stamp though I would much rather see and would request any ones I purchase only to be stamped on the bottom for my cars. Of course after the judges getting use to seeing them on the top I would always remind the judges at a show that the alternator is stamped - just on the bottom till we got them use to only having one stamp on them ;)
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...and also in a place where the detail is readily seen but much less typical (top side).
Except for 6 cyl cars :P :D
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Except for 6 cyl cars :P :D
Thanks for making the distintsion. I have tunnelvision when it comes to engines in the 65-70 and forget about the 6cyl.
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+1 1965 wasn't the only alternator to have the stamp on the bottom of V8 equipped cars.
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Does anyone know where I can buy an Autolite decal for a '66 Mustang k-code? I found a place in Australia selling them but shipping was $60 so I didn't order. I know originally they were stamped but being that I don't even have the correct alternator, I have a modern alternator, I'm OK with the decal. However, if decals aren't available, I would consider reproduced stamps.
Thanks!
Brent
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The stamps have been made by a number of members and others sell them on EBay from time to time. You would want to compare the stamp to original stampings to gauge how correct they are for you usage.
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Hi Jeff,
Thanks for the quick response. I've seen these stamps on ebay in the past but was hoping there were other options. I'll keep watching ebay for a stamp.
-Brent
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Considering the rough casting surface of the alternator housing a sticker is not going to attach or stay attached very well anyway. Sounds like you don't really car about being too correct given what you have offered so far. You might get one of the members PMing you with an offer for a stamp that might be more correct than the Ebay option. Might wait and see
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https://www.ebay.com/sch/spads426/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
I got mine from this guy on eBay a year or so ago. Ive never really compared it to an original but it has a nice appearance. Could try contacting him and see if he has one for your application.
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https://www.ebay.com/sch/spads426/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
I got mine from this guy on eBay a year or so ago. Ive never really compared it to an original but it has a nice appearance. Could try contacting him and see if he has one for your application.
A nice appearance maybe but if you compare it to original you will be very disappointed.
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Prices are pretty healthy also if you consider the shipping also
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I built a '66 GT350 clone so my understanding is that I'm looking for an Autolite stamp with C6AF-10300-D; however, I'd be willing to settle for any stamp/decal that's correct in appearance and begins with C6AF-10300. The last letter designating which engine doesn't matter as much to me.
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Since your not concerned about being original nor correct looks like the close enough ebay one will meet your expectations.
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I do care about the appearance of the stamp as that's the most noticeable aspect. I'd like to find the most accurate '66 alternator stamp I can, including the last letter. However, I was trying to be as open as I could to see what options I had. So I'll pickup the eBay stamp if that's all that's available but if anyone has the stamp with the correct font/design as the original, I'd love to buy/borrow it from you.
Thanks!
Brent
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I made this comparison picture. The top photo is the stamp commonly being sold on eBay whereas the bottom picture is from DeadNutsOn. The differences side-by-side are very noticeable.
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I do care about the appearance of the stamp as that's the most noticeable aspect. I'd like to find the most accurate '66 alternator stamp I can, including the last letter. However, I was trying to be as open as I could to see what options I had. So I'll pickup the eBay stamp if that's all that's available but if anyone has the stamp with the correct font/design as the original, I'd love to buy/borrow it from you.
You mentioned that you had a "modern" alternator. If the case (front or back half) are different from original I would think those are nor noticeable than the stamp since it was typically applied to the bottom out of view
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I should've been more specific. I have a correct appearing '66 alternator but with modern internal components.
Any chance anyone could recommend the proper paint/ink to match the original stamping color? Thanks again!
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You mentioned that you had a "modern" alternator. If the case (front or back half) are different from original I would think those are nor noticeable than the stamp since it was typically applied to the bottom out of view
Just to clarify, are the stampings DeadNutsOn uses correct? Because their alternators appear to have two Autolite stamps, which make it very visible from above.
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IMHO dual stamping was an oddity found on a few originals. I think that often owners want to show off and since they are spending allot of money to have one restored and stamped they want others to see the stamping. I've never stamped or had stamped on on the top since since it just has not matched with all the originals I've seen and have pictures of so I go with one stamp only - on the bottom of the back case. I've never found one with a double stamp though I have been shown a picture once.
My school of thought is that if you can document an oddity or non-typical detail on your car then you may choose to reproduce it. If your car didn't or you have no documentation of the detail, then it is best for you and the hobby to reproduce what was typically practiced for cars like yours since repeating oddities make them appear more predominate than they were
Have used a Kryon spray paint product but can't recall the specific color this moment or have a can on the shelf to get the color or code from
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+1 on double stamp. Even if I have one rebuilt and it comes with the stamp on top, I wipe it off with lacquer thinner.
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IMHO dual stamping was an oddity found on a few originals. I think that often owners want to show off and since they are spending allot of money to have one restored and stamped they want others to see the stamping. I've never stamped or had stamped on on the top since since it just has not matched with all the originals I've seen and have pictures of so I go with one stamp only - on the bottom of the back case. I've never found one with a double stamp though I have been shown a picture once.
My school of thought is that if you can document an oddity or non-typical detail on your car then you may choose to reproduce it. If your car didn't or you have no documentation of the detail, then it is best for you and the hobby to reproduce what was typically practiced for cars like yours since repeating oddities make them appear more predominate than they were
Have used a Kryon spray paint product but can't recall the specific color this moment or have a can on the shelf to get the color or code from
Safety orange works well.
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1967 Alternator.
- was only ink stamped (different colour depending version)?
(in my case red and 42 or 55, AC and power steering)
- ink stamped AND engineering number casted?
Thank you for clarification.
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1967 Alternator.
- was only ink stamped (different colour depending version)?
(in my case red and 42 or 55, AC and power steering)
- ink stamped AND engineering number casted?
Ink stamp was the only form of identification for the application in 67. The aluminum halves may have had casting numbers that identified the maker and the mold numbers but those don't help identify the application.
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Thx Jeff.
Is there an inked stamped date code been used that time as well?
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Is there an inked stamped date code been used that time as well?
Have seen them stamped with one or even two different date stamps during 67 and 68 production. One on the c and one on the rear case during this period. Ink is a dark color for both
Often an inspector or assemblers mark is also found
Going to separate this last few post to a new thread ;)
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1967 Alternator.
- was only ink stamped (different colour depending version)?
(in my case red and 42 or 55, AC and power steering)
- ink stamped AND engineering number casted?
Thank you for clarification.
FYI 42 amp was orange and red was for 55 amp. Of course the stamp had different engineering number depending on application besides the color.
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Just to give you a "visual" of what has been said, I have attached a few pictures if a NOS Service Replacement which is actually for a 1967 Bronco. Note that it is a 45 amp unit, and the printing is Black. Note the two different dates as Jeff mentioned.
Bob
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Just so we don't get confused here ;) You should note that the ones pictured above is a 65-66 version/alternator rather than a 68 version
68 rear main case is molded differently and is shaped (center raised area around the rear bearing retainer) like a tear drop rather than a round one in those pictures
Here is a 68 dated example of a C6AF-B
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/11/6-150119234057.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/11/6-150119234108.jpeg)
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Jeff : Yes, you of course correct. Thanks for clarifying that. My intent was just to show variations of stamping colors and more than one date stamping, but see how the actual Alternator picture could cloud the issue.
Just to be clear for Ralf, his 67 Alternator should look like the one you pictured, and with the appropriate color stamping as previously noted,
Bob
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Ok, thx for clarification.
One thing......I saw Autolite as well as Motorcraft Logos casted on the backside....
Not the case in above pics.
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Ok, thx for clarification.
One thing......I saw Autolite as well as Motorcraft Logos casted on the backside....
Not the case in above pics.
All depends on the time period when the back half's were cast. You start seeing AUTOLITE castings in the later part of 68 production so it doesn't apply to this discussion
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Does the stamp in any way indicate the pulley style or just amperage? More specific would a 67 hipo with AC and 55 amp alternator have an engineering number different than a lopo with AC (smaller pulley)?
Kurt.
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Does the stamp in any way indicate the pulley style or just amperage? ..
No the person stamping of the alternator would have no idea of what pulley would or could be installed later on the alternator
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My 68 alternator needed an ink stamp and I could see that all the offerings on EBAY were nothing like the original as was noted on this website. I made a stencil out of mylar duplicating the dimensions of some on the internet. It was not easy as some of the letters are small. Then used an air brush to put the orange lacquer on. I had to hand print the info at the bottom using a pen from Michaels craft store as well as the date. Then used masking tape to add the outline. Not perfect but hopefully good enough. I laid the stencil on the alternator so you can see it.
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My 68 alternator needed an ink stamp and I could see that all the offerings on EBAY were nothing like the original as was noted on this website. I made a stencil out of mylar duplicating the dimensions of the dead nuts picture. It was not easy as the AUTOLITE letters are small. Then used an air brush to put the orange lacquer on. I had to hand print the info at the bottom using a pen from Michaels craft store as well as the date. Then used masking tape to add the outline. Not perfect but hopefully good enough. I laid the stencil on the alternator so you can see it.
I suppose it depends on what your criteria for good enough is . If for you and you are satisfied then that is all that matters . If on the other hand you are trying for good enough in a concours event then it is quite a bit off of the mark. The Autolite letters and hand written letters and numbers are substantially different looking compared to original.
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+1. in a concours setting i would deduct for workmanship.
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I was surprised that my attempt at making an imprint fell short for a MCA showing. I have tried to use original parts like my alternator when possible as many on this site have.
The imprint topic started in 2009 and shows that an amazing 10,000 people have viewed it. And 460 have viewed my post showing my imprint attempt. Over the years, a handful of people have suggested various ways to simulate or buy an imprint and the ones shown are noticeably different than the original. I have to wonder if anybody has successfully duplicated the imprint to MCA standards for their own alternator. I was told the MCA requirement is stated like this " alternator must have correct amperage ink stamp". Duplicating this very small (7/8 inch tall) imprint is further complicated by the data along the bottom that is only 1/8 inch tall. For those who want to use an original alternator what can we do?
Thanks for all the help in restoring my car. I look forward to sharing my experiences and opinions along the way.
Attached is the view of the alternator in the engine compartment.
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I was surprised that my attempt at making an imprint fell short for a MCA showing. I have tried to use original parts like my alternator when possible as many on this site have.
The imprint topic started in 2009 and shows that an amazing 10,000 people have viewed it. And 460 have viewed my post showing my imprint attempt. Over the years, a handful of people have suggested various ways to simulate or buy an imprint and the ones shown are noticeably different than the original. I have to wonder if anybody has successfully duplicated the imprint to MCA standards for their own alternator. I was told the MCA requirement is stated like this " alternator must have correct amperage ink stamp". Duplicating this very small (7/8 inch tall) imprint is further complicated by the data along the bottom that is only 1/8 inch tall. For those who want to use an original alternator what can we do?
Thanks for all the help in restoring my car. I look forward to sharing my experiences and opinions along the way.
Attached is the view of the alternator in the engine compartment.
Close can be like horse shoe and hand grenades. Not meant to be rude but the reality is that your attempt at the ink stamp is on the wrong end of that close spectrum. There are many that have been able to make exact stamps. Dead nuts on is one example of a identical exact ink stamps .Go to his website and use his as a yardstick. https://www.deadnutson.com/1968-ford-alternators-parts/ . Others have worked on the art work and had stamps made up. There are people on EBAY that sometimes sell them but some are closer then others . Where there is a will there is a way. The concours rules are meant to encourage a historical look. How you get there is the challenge. It is routine to find alternators stamped with correct amperage and even though it is not spelled out the correct engineering numbers along with close enough lettering that it doesn't look out of place is expected too. I should also mention that the exact original alternator front and back case is expected .That is not a big trick given there were literally millions produced. Sometime you have to mix and match but they are out there as rebuilds ,junk yards etc. If you or anyone reading is not sure what they need you can go to the Dead Nuts On website and see the pictures and information that he has laid out. That is if you like to DIY like many of us. Jack also sells ready to go concours detailed alternators also if you would rather put your time in other places. With that said there are a lot of enthusiasts out there that have been able to get the job done. Don't get frustrated this forum is here to help.
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[quote Dead nuts on is one example of a identical exact ink stamps][/quote]
+1...about 10-12 years ago I sent mine to them for a stamp and he also tumbled it... I was very pleased with their work...
TOB
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I was surprised that my attempt at making an imprint fell short for a MCA showing. I have tried to use original parts like my alternator when possible as many on this site have.
The imprint topic started in 2009 and shows that an amazing 10,000 people have viewed it. And 460 have viewed my post showing my imprint attempt. Over the years, a handful of people have suggested various ways to simulate or buy an imprint and the ones shown are noticeably different than the original.
Looking at what has been posted all are of originals except for one side by side (one attempt verses Jacks reproduction) has been posted from what I saw looking through the thread
I have to wonder if anybody has successfully duplicated the imprint to MCA standards for their own alternator. I was told the MCA requirement is stated like this " alternator must have correct amperage ink stamp".
As has been mentioned many times on this site and others . What is written in the judging sheets and rules is only a very very small amount of what judges are looking at and evaluating at MCA shows. There is not enough space nor would someone want to pay for the expense nor carry such a book for each individual set of sheets that would be required if everything was listed. Often the notes show something recently added or something the judges don't want over looked/forgotten. Over time the well know (by that year) and enforced details are well established and dropped out of print to make room for newer details and reminders
Duplicating this very small (7/8 inch tall) imprint is further complicated by the data along the bottom that is only 1/8 inch tall. For those who want to use an original alternator what can we do?
As has been mentioned your left with purchasing a stamp that someone else has spent efforts and time trying to get correct, do what you did or pay someone else to stamp.
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/20/6-210324152453-2026898.jpeg)
As mentioned we are here to help and often the help comes with a direct response and not always one that is glossed over since tons of people (members and non-members) read the posts every day and letting details that are not correct without a mention and some hopefully helpful comments will help others reading and viewing the exchanges. If they are not caught and comments the details will just be duplicated over and over on other cars only to be discovered by those owners later.
We have seen this over and over again during the past 40 years of doing this in one form or another. Better to find out before a car is taken to a show considering all the possible costs, time and effort that takes for many.