ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Drivetrain => Topic started by: bullitt68 on August 21, 2023, 03:26:45 PM
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One step forward, ten steps backs seems the be the theme of my build, probably why it is taking ten times longer to build. So I had my painter mix up some paint for me and sprayed it, however the paint refused to cure. Not sure what I did wrong with the hardener, but unfortunately I had no choice but to remove the paint. The good news is that the paint came off with wax & grease remover with no pressure, just a quick wipe. Will give it a light scuff with 400 grit sand paper and re apply, this time using the right product with the right ratio's. This will also give me the opportunity to adjust the color and the gloss as the previous paint I used was off just enough to bother me.
Curious what others are using for paint products etc
Not sure of this has happened to anyone else, but it sure his a pain!
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/19/4775-210823142443-19090335.jpeg)
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PPG
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No primer (like done originally) and PPG as listed in a number of threads and recommended everywhere except those that want easier, cheaper and less longevity
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PPG
ditzler dar PPG 13358, dxr80 urethane hardener, and dx 265 flatting base @ 25% to 30%
Do you have a photo?
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ditzler dar PPG 13358, dxr80 urethane hardener, and dx 265 flatting base @ 25% to 30%
Do you have a photo?
Here's a couple
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/19/6-210823154407-190921593.jpeg)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/19/6-210823154406-190911804.jpeg)
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Here's one
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/9/6-271017234236.jpeg)
thanks Jeff, perhaps having to repaint my motor is a blessing in disguise, as I don't think the previous paint I used was spot on
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thanks Jeff, perhaps having to repaint my motor is a blessing in disguise, as I don't think the previous paint I used was spot on
Matching Ford Corporate Blue is kind of like trying to match Guardsman Blue Shelby stripes.... it can vary during production months/years.
I have a low mileage '68 Shelby I'm working on with a lot of original paint on the oil pan. DAR 13358 painted samples are quite different when put next to it.
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Matching Ford Corporate Blue is kind of like trying to match Guardsman Blue Shelby stripes.... it can vary during production months/years.
+1 Some of the variation was likely due to the typical slight variation from batch to batch but mostly a difference between engine plants and different suppliers, so IMHO if your looking to compare look to other engines from the same engine plant as yours. FE for FE, Windsor to Windsor and Cleveland to Cleveland for example. Also except or accept a slight different between parts that were painted else where and not part of the engine painting such as air cleaners and especially engine lift hooks
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I would not trust the paint to use again. What do they say about doing the same thing again and expecting different results? I am skeptical it was your paint to hardener mixer. I had a restoration friend who earlier this year had the non hardening paint happen on a entire car . The Glasurit Paint company determined that it was a bad batch of paint. He had to wipe off entire car with wax and grease remover.He was compensated for materials and much of the time but not the stress and anguish. Your PPG base paint could be bad too. Just saying.
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I would not trust the paint to use again. What do they say about doing the same thing again and expecting different results? I am skeptical it was your paint to hardener mixer. I had a restoration friend who earlier this year had the non hardening paint happen on a entire car . The Glasurit Paint company determined that it was a bad batch of paint. He had to wipe off entire car with wax and grease remover.He was compensated for materials and much of the time but not the stress and anguish. Your PPG base paint could be bad too. Just saying.
Thanks Bob that is great info. FYI the product I used was Nason, which I have used successfully in the past. I am having a hard time finding PPG in Canada in a single stage. My painter told me that the paint activator stalled, which he has seen before. I do know that I used the wrong activator now.
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/19/4775-210823173556-190951672.jpeg)
So I am trying to source the PPG paint. Short of that I can try to match the paint using this as a sample
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/19/4775-210823173550-19094962.jpeg)
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I use PPG, but not on the engine. I would suggest Bill Hirsch on engines-I have used it for some time (decades)-it is an aircraft enamel, no hardener required also goes direct (no primer) on cast iron. It really lasts. On my 68 FE it was an excellent color match.
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I just saw that pic of your engine on your restoration thread-your San Jose color looks much lighter than my Dearborn FE. The Bill Hirsch is darker than your engine.
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I just saw that pic of your engine on your restoration thread-your San Jose color looks much lighter than my Dearborn FE. The Bill Hirsch is darker than your engine.
Do you have a photo?
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I use PPG, but not on the engine. I would suggest Bill Hirsch on engines-I have used it for some time (decades)-it is an aircraft enamel, no hardener required also goes direct (no primer) on cast iron. It really lasts. On my 68 FE it was an excellent color match.
Jeff posted some photos above that are darker than the paint I used on my motor
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I just saw that pic of your engine on your restoration thread-your San Jose color looks much lighter than my Dearborn FE. The Bill Hirsch is darker than your engine.
Here is a better photo of the paint
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/19/4775-210823181218-190982379.jpeg)
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I just saw that pic of your engine on your restoration thread-your San Jose color looks much lighter than my Dearborn FE. The Bill Hirsch is darker than your engine.
All FE engines were painted at Dearborn Engine Plant. None were ever painted at any assembly plant.
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All FE engines were painted at Dearborn Engine Plant. None were ever painted at any assembly plant.
Good point. Paint shades can very slightly because of different paint batches .
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All FE engines were painted at Dearborn Engine Plant. None were ever painted at any assembly plant.
Thanks that is what I thought
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Jeff posted some photos above that are darker than the paint I used on my motor
Be careful of comparing tints and tones of colors on the computer screen since they will often look different than in person given all the possible camera settings and lighting when the picture was taken digitally and the settings on your monitor. It always appeared to me when I compared that FE blocks, heads and such were slightly darker than Cleveland built and painted engines. But that was just what I've seen or owned
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Be careful of comparing tints and tones of colors on the computer screen since they will often look different than in person given all the possible camera settings and lighting when the picture was taken digitally and the settings on your monitor. It always appeared to me when I compared that FE blocks, heads and such were slightly darker than Cleveland built and painted engines. But that was just what I've seen or owned
Yes agreed. However I do need a baseline/starting point to arrive at the right color/tone. What do you know about this paint. I was told this is good match. If so will get met painter to mix some up for me. Waiting to find out of I can get some PPG 13358 locally, which should be correct
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/19/4775-210823173550-19094962.jpeg)
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Matching Ford Corporate Blue is kind of like trying to match Guardsman Blue Shelby stripes.... it can vary during production months/years.
I have a low mileage '68 Shelby I'm working on with a lot of original paint on the oil pan. DAR 13358 painted samples are quite different when put next to it.
I just sprayed some of he PPG and it looks much lighter than I expected. Sure seems difficult to get a sample of what it should look like.
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/19/4775-190923151027-194422000.jpeg)
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Do you have a photo?
Do you have a reference photo?
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PPG
I just did a PPG spray out and it was not what I expected. Just want to make sure that they mixed it right
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Mike,
A little late but attached is a pic of a low mile FE (Dearborn build 5/68).
The intake manifold and everything but water pump and thermostat housing are original paint. The water pump and thermostat housing was painted in 95 or 96 with Bill Hirsch paint (no primer).
Jeff is right though computer screens are tough to compare paint shades.
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Mike,
A little late but attached is a pic of a low mile FE (Dearborn build 5/68).
The intake manifold and everything but water pump and thermostat housing are original paint. The water pump and thermostat housing was painted in 95 or 96 with Bill Hirsch paint (no primer).
Jeff is right though computer screens are tough to compare paint shades.
Thanks for the photo. There is definitely a difference in color and shade. The Bill Hirsch paint looks darker and more opaque, than the original paint. It looks like the PPG 13358 is a light/medium blue and also has a translucent quality to it. When I sprayed it, I found that it does take a lot more paint to cover than I am used to applying, due to the translucent characteristics of the paint. I guess the question is which paint looks more like the paint when it was originally applied at the factory. I realize it is very difficult to judge from a photo, but there really is no other way to compare the various finishes. Unfortunately there are so many different versions off the Ford motor paint out there and I have seen so many different tones and shades of blue that I am not even sure what product to use as I have about 5 different paints that are all different. I hope that the paint shop mixed the PPG correctly, as that is about the only way to know for certain as it is based on the original formula. This is what I used, well the last time that is. PPG paint is on the right
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/19/4775-190923232145-19444192.png)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/19/4775-150923163358-194151101.jpeg)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/19/4775-150923163358-19415243.jpeg)
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One of the challenges of comparing 50 year old paint that has seen 10,000 or more heat cycles, exposure to all sorts of chemicals, even cold water splashing in some cars on the surface and who know what.
Comparing to one of the under 100 mile cars with an engine from the same engine plant and year would likely the best you could do, and in person. But that would not be real easy and if you looked at two there would very much be a difference. Let's not even get into all of the blue painted items that were added to the engine after it was painted or installed in the car.
Just have to do your best and get it in the "range" IMHO. We've often described, like in other details that make up our cars, a color or finish that does not catch someones eye as being off or different than the expected. That is what we always shared in judging, owner and restoration seminars and gatherings.
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The PPG looks a bit glossy-but you can play with that. I bet if you used a PPG DCC mix it would be a little different with more gloss. One of the reasons I like the Bill Hirsch is it lasts. No burn off issues. I spoke to PPG about what temp paint was good for and as I recall it was in the 270d F range.
Color matching is time consuming and tough.
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The Bill Hirsh paint may be good however it is typically a different darker shade not in the range of the factory paint . It is easy to tell as the wrong shade on the show field.
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The PPG looks a bit glossy-but you can play with that. I bet if you used a PPG DCC mix it would be a little different with more gloss. One of the reasons I like the Bill Hirsch is it lasts. No burn off issues. I spoke to PPG about what temp paint was good for and as I recall it was in the 270d F range.
Color matching is time consuming and tough.
I am going to mix another batch with some flattening agent and do a test spray as I thought it was too glossy as well. I guess it pretty hit or miss with the flattening agent
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The Bill Hirsh paint may be good however it is typically a different darker shade not in the range of the factory paint . It is easy to tell as the wrong shade on the show field.
Bob, in person in may seem a hair bit darker but I think that picture is representative-that is 25+ yr old Bill Hirsch paint and 50+ yr old Ford paint. It is pretty close. I always thought my factory paint batch is a little darker then typical. BTW that manifold is aluminum.
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Bob, in person in may seem a hair bit darker but I think that picture is representative-that is 25+ yr old Bill Hirsch paint and 50+ yr old Ford paint. It is pretty close. I always thought my factory paint batch is a little darker then typical. BTW that manifold is aluminum.
IMO from personal experience painting bare aluminum vs bare steel will yield a lighter shade for certain, which may explain the difference we are seeing. I used primer on all my engine parts as a baseline. However, here was a noticeable difference also on my unpainted bell housing as I couldn't to primer it.
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The Bill Hirsh paint may be good however it is typically a different darker shade not in the range of the factory paint . It is easy to tell as the wrong shade on the show field.
Has been my experience also. There is another supplier (sorry don't recall the brand) that I see from time to time that has a little purple cast to it, when the sun hits the surface, that makes it unacceptable IMHO
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Has been my experience also. There is another supplier (sorry don't recall the brand) that I see from time to time that has a little purple cast to it, when the sun hits the surface, that makes it unacceptable IMHO
I am guessing you are thinking about the POR 15 engine paint .
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Has been my experience also. There is another supplier (sorry don't recall the brand) that I see from time to time that has a little purple cast to it, when the sun hits the surface, that makes it unacceptable IMHO
This one has a bit of a purple tinge to it imo
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/19/4775-210823173550-19094962.jpeg)