ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Shelby => Topic started by: 1967 eight barrel on January 19, 2016, 08:08:37 AM
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I am looking for the other alternatives to the plastic clips that are being sold on Ebay. I have a Dec '66 manufacture Did Shelby also use tie wraps to secure the lamp harnesses to the hood latch support? Pictures would be helpful as well. Thank you.
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Maybe this will help. http://saacforum.com/index.php?topic=28426.0
TOB
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I am looking for the other alternatives to the plastic clips that are being sold on Ebay.............
Don't know which plastic clips are being sold on EBay. No link or picture from there. If they are like the ones pictured in the SAAC discussion I don't know of anyone that has every produced them. So no alternatives unless you want to do something non-factory. If so then its up to you seen a number of owners screw C clamps all over the engine compartment to retain wires but not something I would ever consider doing. Especially considering the site we're at ;)
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I am looking for the other alternatives to the plastic clips that are being sold on Ebay. I have a Dec '66 manufacture Did Shelby also use tie wraps to secure the lamp harnesses to the hood latch support? Pictures would be helpful as well. Thank you.
the Panduit zip ties were only used on the very earliest of cars probably only the first couple hundred. I am not sure which ones on eBay you are looking at to confirm if original or not. A SAAC forum contributor reproduced a few dozen and sold on the forum as well as some on eBay. Not sure if you are looking at those or not. If the are the right ones you would be short sighted if you passed on them. If they are over a 100.00 I could understand although I would pay that in a second if that was one of a few things needed for a valuable car I was working on. But that is just me. Others may think differently.
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Some pictures - unfortunately any retainers have been removed or failed and fallen off
On the last Dec built car went with the long C shaped retainers that were sold over on SAAC site
The wires do appear to still have a bend formed in them towards the center hood latch support
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-190116173320.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-190116173307.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-190116173253.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-190116173351.jpeg)
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Jeff,
The factory charging/lighting, starter harness that usually sits in clips along the front cross member.. Should that harness be on top of the fiberglass in the bottom opening or under the opening? I have seen them on top in most vehicles. The pictures you posted seem to show that this particular vehicle has the wiring under the lower fiberglass opening. Does the individual on the SAAC site have the C type plastic clips available? What does a pair run? A link would be helpful.
Regards,
-Keith
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Jeff,
The factory charging/lighting, starter harness that usually sits in clips along the front cross member.. Should that harness be on top of the fiberglass in the bottom opening or under the opening? I have seen them on top in most vehicles. The pictures you posted seem to show that this particular vehicle has the wiring under the lower fiberglass opening. Does the individual on the SAAC site have the C type plastic clips available? What does a pair run? A link would be helpful.
Don't know if they have any more - just made on run.
Here is the post from that site
Related thread - http://saacforum.com/index.php?topic=19317.15
(http://saacforum.com/index.php?topic=19317.15)
Could not find the ad - looked. Maybe the seller pulled it once they were all gone
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Jeff,
The factory charging/lighting, starter harness that usually sits in clips along the front cross member.. Should that harness be on top of the fiberglass in the bottom opening or under the opening? I have seen them on top in most vehicles. The pictures you posted seem to show that this particular vehicle has the wiring under the lower fiberglass opening. Does the individual on the SAAC site have the C type plastic clips available? What does a pair run? A link would be helpful.
Regards,
-Keith
The headlamp harness typically sits on the top side of the fiberglass.Jeff's picture may not be a good representation. It appears that the nose had been off or replaced since there are no rivets holding the nose on to the front frame rail or empty holes where they would be.
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Here is the Evilbay link for the clips. 40.00 seems a bit extensive in my opinion.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/301703531842?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true
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Reply #1 had the original link ::)
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Here is the Evilbay link for the clips. 40.00 seems a bit extensive in my opinion.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/301703531842?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true
I have been advising people for decades now. You have got to understand that you are looking for parts that are rare and hard to find.This is not the first time this subject has come up. This is however the very FIRST time that a replica of the original wire clamp has been available for sale in all of the years I have been doing this to put it into perspective. A SAAC forum member couldn't find any and had some originals 3D copied and made up a few sets to offset the expense of doing a run. No one in the past has wanted to put up the initial investment that making this part would take. After you spend many hours looking for a comparable substitute and find nothing like others have in the past you may just change your mind. I think the 40.00 is a good investment to make a 150,000.00 67 GT500 more original which makes it more valuable in today's world. But that is just my opinion .Others may have different.
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Here is the Evilbay link for the clips. 40.00 seems a bit extensive in my opinion.
Guess you've never looked into or have reproduced a part.
I bought two pair and don't own a 67
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Well, I know some reasonable parts printers. I have used them for a couple LE firearms accessory prototypes. However, with that said: Most will scan the image of an original in with these dimensions for about 20.00. Then they can be reproduced in number. What I did note that is they can only be reproduced without being brittle in a nylon-like material. The originals seem to be a charcoal gray. I don't have an example to have done, so no. That rules that option out.
However, as most of the sellers anymore are interested in killing home hobbyist because the owners of these vehicles for the most part are extremely wealthy, I don't think there are many like myself who bought a vehicle in high school and have managed to hold on to it all these years.
I am not sure if my vehicle would have even used these, as I saw one under #200 that had used the clips that hold the wiring harness to the fender wells on each side of the hood latch/headlamp support.
I have given some of the parts I have more than once to people here there were in need, so I guess my logic is flawed in the eyes of those who are capitalizing on the fact many of us who have the cars need particular items, and because of the popularity and value of the vehicle they want to make a killing on one item because of need.
-Keith
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Keith,
3D printing is a great technology. I use it to make prototypes for tooling to make medical devices, and sometimes for actual, functional tooling. But there are limitations. The most common material we use is ABS plastic, which is reasonably strong but does not have the flexibility of nylon or PVC (which I suspect was the original material for the clip in question). Perhaps the biggest drawback is appearance. FDM (fused deposition modeling) printing builds the part up in layers These layers are .010" or so, and while that's small, it's not invisible. The material is also porous due to gaps betwen the layers and the way each layer is built. Lastly, the part can fracture or cleave between layers, so the part is generally built to minimize this effect, which sometimes compromises appearance.
The original parts were extruded. Extruding dies are simpler to make than injection molding dies, but you're still talking thousands of dollars. Let's say you get a bargain at $3,000. There's setup time and development, and machine time to pay for. So you're probably looking at $5,000 minimum investment. And my numbers are probably on the optimistic side. Once you start running the piece price is pretty low. Let's say you make 1,000 clips. At $5 apiece, you break even if you sell them all. What do you expect the demand to be? If the market will only support 200 clips, you need to sell them at $25 apiece just to break even. None of this factors in the time for marketing, sales, shipping, etc.
The choice is, a functional part that sorta looks like the original but is inexpensive, or a quality reproduction that is rather spendy.
If you're looking for a "close enough", a company called Heyco makes a C clip that is similar in appearance. It's part number 3794. But I haven't found any for sale, you might have to get quotes. (Companies offering quotes are usually expecting to sell quantities, not individual pieces) Heyco and others also make "J" clips, which may be close enough to be functional.
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I appreciate the information. I recently finally found an answer for those who are missing the plugs in the back side of the headlamp buckets. Seems like it's a never ending search for things that didn't come off the shelf at Ford.
-Keith
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I have been advising people for decades now. You have got to understand that you are looking for parts that are rare and hard to find.This is not the first time this subject has come up. This is however the very FIRST time that a replica of the original wire clamp has been available for sale in all of the years I have been doing this to put it into perspective. A SAAC forum member couldn't find any and had some originals 3D copied and made up a few sets to offset the expense of doing a run. No one in the past has wanted to put up the initial investment that making this part would take. After you spend many hours looking for a comparable substitute and find nothing like others have in the past you may just change your mind. I think the 40.00 is a good investment to make a 150,000.00 67 GT500 more original which makes it more valuable in today's world. But that is just my opinion .Others may have different.
Bob, Do you have pictures looking down into the opening that are as clear as Jeff's, but with all parts in original perspective?
-Keith
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Bob, Do you have pictures looking down into the opening that are as clear as Jeff's, but with all parts in original perspective?
-Keith
I don't any over all pictures of the area looking down. Not much going on there to speak of . Harness lays across fiberglass with no clips. I have closer pictures of specific items like pictures of the clips and where they are attached to the hood latch support. Rivets in fiberglass etc. Let me know.
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Bob, The rivet and clip information would be helpful.
Thanks, Keith
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Bob, The rivet and clip information would be helpful.
Thanks, Keith
I will work on it.
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Here are some pics of the grill area.
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Thanks for the pictures, Bob.
Do you happen to know who might have some of the rubber that goes on the lower grille?
-Keith
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Thanks for the pictures, Bob.
Do you happen to know who might have some of the rubber that goes on the lower grille?
-Keith
Sorry no. It is like the headlight wire clips . There are a lot of close substitutes but I have never found a substitute with the exact same profile. The few original hard to find examples that I have seen for sale sold for around 100.00 to give you perspective . Just like the clips it can be made but require a lot of work and a sizable investment for a minimum run.
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Bob, absolutely a big dollar investment for tooling for extruded parts.
Steele has something close. No since in scratching paint, so I will do something close. Perhaps in time, something better will come along.
-Keith
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Bob, absolutely a big dollar investment for tooling for extruded parts.
Steele has something close. No since in scratching paint, so I will do something close. Perhaps in time, something better will come along.
-Keith
You might check with branda and see if they will sell it seperete from the repro grills they offer.
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Bob,
Branda told me there was no rubber on the bottom of the grill and their offering was concourse correct.. We know better..
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In the third photo, it appears the rubber piece would have an "H" cross section to slide over the mesh and the surrounding piece. Is that a correct interpretation? If so, there are numerous suppliers that make that type of gasket/seal. Google "rubber H channel". The catch is finding a supplier that will sell small quantities - most of the search results are suppliers that only have "request a quote" for pricing, and they are wanting to sell larger amounts, even for standard profiles. But maybe with a bit of calling around you might find one that has some leftovers or setup material that they would sell you a small quantity of. Or you could contact companies like Steele Rubber Products, etc. to see if they would be interested in reproducing it for the market.
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Dave,
Good idea. I spent a hour or so going through Steele's website, also looking for the rubber plugs for the hole in the back of the headlamp buckets. I found some channel that is close. With a picture of this nature I can send it to them. I think you have to buy 25', as you had mentioned. It will rot in the garage post me using three feet of it.. There was a gentleman selling the correct pattern lower grill for the '67 cars with outboard lamps, and I asked him about buying enough to do my grill, and he agree to it. I asked him to invoice me for it so I could pay him, and there was no reply. Perhaps he elected to keep his trade secret.
-Keith
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In the third photo, it appears the rubber piece would have an "H" cross section to slide over the mesh and the surrounding piece. Is that a correct interpretation? If so, there are numerous suppliers that make that type of gasket/seal. Google "rubber H channel". The catch is finding a supplier that will sell small quantities - most of the search results are suppliers that only have "request a quote" for pricing, and they are wanting to sell larger amounts, even for standard profiles. But maybe with a bit of calling around you might find one that has some leftovers or setup material that they would sell you a small quantity of. Or you could contact companies like Steele Rubber Products, etc. to see if they would be interested in reproducing it for the market.
The original has a channel on one side that the grill mesh fits into the other side has a wider flat side .No channel on the bottom side.
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Dave,
Good idea. I spent a hour or so going through Steele's website, also looking for the rubber plugs for the hole in the back of the headlamp buckets. I found some channel that is close. With a picture of this nature I can send it to them. I think you have to buy 25', as you had mentioned. It will rot in the garage post me using three feet of it.. There was a gentleman selling the correct pattern lower grill for the '67 cars with outboard lamps, and I asked him about buying enough to do my grill, and he agree to it. I asked him to invoice me for it so I could pay him, and there was no reply. Perhaps he elected to keep his trade secret.
-Keith
The rear large plugs are the same difficult to find as the clips and the grill channel. If your low beam buckets still have the large rubber grommets move the rubber to the inboard. Remember the bulb holding dish portion of the bucket is unique to high beam and low beam. The fender buckets are not as noticeable and a good place for a substitute rubber grommet or if you don't have the correct bucket with the big hole . I got some lower grills from the guy selling the outboard lower grills. The rubber channel is a acceptable substitute. I have a friend (different then who you are corresponding with)who sells the small mesh outboard lower grill to Branda and I am almost positive that the grills they are sold to Branda with the rubber channel included. I let him use my original to try and find a substitute. If i can remember I will try and take a picture of the original. I think I have one extra piece somewhere.
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Bob,
Thanks. You may know who I was talking about on Ebay. They are no longer listed.
-Keith
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The rear large plugs are the same difficult to find as the clips and the grill channel. If your low beam buckets still have the large rubber grommets move the rubber to the inboard. Remember the bulb holding dish portion of the bucket is unique to high beam and low beam. The fender buckets are not as noticeable and a good place for a substitute rubber grommet or if you don't have the correct bucket with the big hole . I got some lower grills from the guy selling the outboard lower grills. The rubber channel is a acceptable substitute. I have a friend (different then who you are corresponding with)who sells the small mesh outboard lower grill to Branda and I am almost positive that the grills they are sold to Branda with the rubber channel included. I let him use my original to try and find a substitute. If i can remember I will try and take a picture of the original. I think I have one extra piece somewhere.
The channel on the grill is the one that the is on the ones i got from the SAAC forum member/ebay seller. The other is a know original of at least one style.
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The lowers you have is what I saw. The seal you have in your hand is completely different from most cross sections of rubber channel commercially available. Thanks again for the pictures.
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Try a Google image search using the terms "rubber U channel" or "capping rubber". You'l have to do
some lots of calling around, and ultimately you may run into minimum quantity requirements, but there's also a possibility that someone may have a few small pieces laying around or even be able to send you a free sample.
Closest profile I saw in a quick search was from abcrubber.com (http://abcrubber.com), see the attached image.
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Thanks, Dave. Steele has a couple options as well, however I am not sure what to do with 15' of the stuff.. 8)
I will have no choice however, as I don't want the paint scratched in the lower radiator opening.
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Thanks, Dave. Steele has a couple options as well, however I am not sure what to do with 15' of the stuff.. 8)
I will have no choice however, as I don't want the paint scratched in the lower radiator opening.
You could buy more Shelbys to use it up on... ;D
[Is the plural "Shelbys" or "Shelbies"?]
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You could buy more Shelbys to use it up on... ;D
[Is the plural "Shelbys" or "Shelbies"?]
Shelby's ?
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My English major daughter says "Shelbys". Same for the plural of car (cars), dollar (dollars).
Using the apostrophe is for the possessive form. For example something you might hear at an auction "this car has Shelby's signature on the dash".
So if there were three cars in a row at the auction, the proper grammar would be "we have here three Shelbys, each with Shelby's signature on the dash"
OK back to fixing up old cars...
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My English major daughter says "Shelbys". Same for the plural of car (cars), dollar (dollars).
Using the apostrophe is for the possessive form. For example something you might hear at an auction "this car has Shelby's signature on the dash".
So if there were three cars in a row at the auction, the proper grammar would be "we have here three Shelbys, each with Shelby's signature on the dash"
OK back to fixing up old cars...
Grammer is the least of my problems ;) .
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If you guys are looking to sell a chunk of that grill channel, hit me up I need some for my build. Just pm me and I'll send PayPal. Thanks. Brian.
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Bob: Would you like me to send you Hooked on Phonics for Christmas? ;D
It would be Shelbys for plural. I think the spousal unit may have something to say if that were in the works knowing what this one cost to do.. 8)
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Grammer is the least of my problems ;) .
Bob: I will refrain from comment. However, it could be worse and you could be "Special Ed".. :o
P.S. Grammar is the word of the day! Bwahahhahah!
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Bob: I will refrain from comment. However, it could be worse and you could be "Special Ed".. :o
P.S. Grammar is the word of the day! Bwahahhahah!
I am afraid that I have been around him too long and it is rubbing off. Ed recently learned how to text. He texted a mutual friend. The mutual friend texted back " I don't understand your text ,it looks like a puzzle. hF%#qi " ;D . I still laugh everytime I think of it.
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That's funny, Bob! Kind of like me teaching my father. I am in the middle. Electronics came to be after I was an adult, so I was at the transition. My father, despite being an electrical contractor for the oil industry had a hard time with computers, yet he was one of the best trouble shooters in the industry. Now at 80, it's entertaining to watch him play with some of my stuff at times.
-Keith