ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Body, Paint & Sealers => Topic started by: Anghelrestorations on March 31, 2016, 03:19:18 PM
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Just put together a quick guide on the windshield washer nozzles since I had a pile of these laying around. If anyone sees anything missing or thinks we should add something let me know.
http://anghelrestorations.com/uploads/3/1/7/6/3176630/washer_nozzles_v1.0a.pdf (http://anghelrestorations.com/uploads/3/1/7/6/3176630/washer_nozzles_v1.0a.pdf)
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/azscj/IMG_5815a_zpseanxlikv.jpg)
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as usual a great write-up. may i make a suggestion for another..........how about a write-up on wheel weights & valve stems??
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Awesome job....as we come to expect from you!
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Thanks as always 8)
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as usual a great write-up. may i make a suggestion for another..........how about a write-up on wheel weights & valve stems??
+1
Also 70 Wiper arms and wipers!
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Need to amend 67 single nozzle is silver . Late 67 went to double nozzle with dark finish . I don't think it bk oxide but something else.
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Bob...your sure on the 67 nozzles these were always zinc? Not my expertise in that year but I know it is yours.
For the double nozzle 68 style I was not 100% sure on the finish but seems to be a grey finish. Dont think its a phosphate finish either. Had trouble narrowing down what that is exactly.
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I agree with Bob the early 67 should be single and zinc.
Thanks Marcus nice work!
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Ok, good feedback. I will work on an update. I could use a good photo of a 67 installed with the zinc finish to replace what I have in there now....if anyone has anything let me know.
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Carlite65 and JohnRB I will add your suggestions in a possible future write up. Always looking for ideas.
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Bob...your sure on the 67 nozzles these were always zinc? Not my expertise in that year but I know it is yours.
For the double nozzle 68 style I was not 100% sure on the finish but seems to be a grey finish. Dont think its a phosphate finish either. Had trouble narrowing down what that is exactly.
Yes single nozzle typically zinc. I am not sure what the finish on 2 nozzle which started in later 67 production(at least at SJ) is called. The dark finish reminds of the dark finish Seen sometimes on 68 marker light retainer bracket. I was told it was a common military grade finish but can't confirm. In the proper light it has kind of a dark rainbow effect like zinc dichromate gives off. Easier to see on a wider piece like the 68 mentioned part. I have had a number of NOS late 67 /68 double nozzle ones . The fresh plating on a NOS one makes it easier to understand. If you will be at Florida MCA show I believe a blue 67 GT500 entered will have some NOS ones. I too have plated black oxide to try and mimick finish closer. Thanks for doing the article.
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Here is one for you Marcas, built 11-04-66 SJ zinc single tip
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Here is one for you Marcas
Let me guess - Bugatti? No? How about an Isuzu? ;)
Jim
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Yes single nozzle typically zinc. I am not sure what the finish on 2 nozzle which started in later 67 production(at least at SJ) is called. The dark finish reminds of the dark finish Seen sometimes on 68 marker light retainer bracket. I was told it was a common military grade finish but can't confirm. In the proper light it has kind of a dark rainbow effect like zinc dichromate gives off. Easier to see on a wider piece like the 68 mentioned part. I have had a number of NOS late 67 /68 double nozzle ones . The fresh plating on a NOS one makes it easier to understand. If you will be at Florida MCA show I believe a blue 67 GT500 entered will have some NOS ones. I too have plated black oxide to try and mimick finish closer. Thanks for doing the article.
Based purely on that description, I wonder if that might be an S42 finish - "cadmium plate (black)". Which would be a regular cadmium plating with a black dichromate conversion instead of the more common yellow dichromate. I think. :)
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The originals from my vehicle are made of brass or copper and had a charcoal gray color. However, unlike Bob's Shelby, the fasteners were P&O when I removed them. It appears the head on Bob's picture is 5/16" AMK supplies the three fasteners for the washer/tee in P&O with 1/4" hex head screws.
-Keith
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Based purely on that description, I wonder if that might be an S42 finish - "cadmium plate (black)". Which would be a regular cadmium plating with a black dichromate conversion instead of the more common yellow dichromate. I think. :)
I found some clamps at the swap meet plated with the same color . I will post when I get home Sunday.
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Thanks, Bob.
Always a new mystery to solve, right?
-Keith
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Ok, made some changes and updated the document.
As far as the finish on the 68 nozzles I cant say for sure what that is, but there is a finish called "Zinc plate plus chromate, black" which is designated as a S43B. But for now I am just calling it a grey/black finish to at least give some reference point for us.
And for the fasteners, I think there is just too many variations over the years and plants to include that in here. Even within 69/70 there is several different markings on the heads (indicating different suppliers) that Ford used.
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Well, they are never going to shut the line down for a fastener, so if one ran out, there is always an alternative. Looking through the assembly manuals often there are alternatives listed for a particular application. Let's not forget the brain dead new line worker who didn't care if he was working on a Cougar, Fairlane or something else who used what had been picked up.
-Keith
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......... Let's not forget the brain dead new line worker who didn't care if he was working on a Cougar, Fairlane or something else who used what had been picked up.
Really??? - most of the workers I've meet were really nice guys that seemed to be really interested in doing a decent job for a decent days wage while providing for their wife and kids. For many this was a great improvement over other jobs of the period so not a job to be taken lightly.
Many were also members of the greatest generation and or vets of Korea. Of course there were some less then stellar workers but it seems every job has those.
To many of them we're the silly (kind word chosen) ones asking about this detail or that one, 50 years later ::)
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Ok, made some changes and updated the document.
As far as the finish on the 68 nozzles I cant say for sure what that is, but there is a finish called "Zinc plate plus chromate, black" which is designated as a S43B. But for now I am just calling it a grey/black finish to at least give some reference point for us.
And for the fasteners, I think there is just too many variations over the years and plants to include that in here. Even within 69/70 there is several different markings on the heads (indicating different suppliers) that Ford used.
I would like to remind you Again ( as spec Ed would say)the double nozzle started during 67 product it is NOT a 68 only part.
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Really??? - most of the workers I've meet were really nice guys that seemed to be really interested in doing a decent job for a decent days wage while providing for their wife and kids. For many this was a great improvement over other jobs of the period so not a job to be taken lightly.
Many were also members of the greatest generation and or vets of Korea. Of course there were some less then stellar workers but it seems every job has those.
To many of them we're the silly (kind word chosen) ones asking about this detail or that one, 50 years later ::)
Jeff, you may have noted the word "new". Any new employee has a propensity to make mistakes, or sometimes isn't with the click of the job just yet. You may also consider a NEW employee of that era, in SJ especially may have been of the Hippie variety. As for the "greatest generation"; I am a grandson and son of two paratroopers, one a WWII veteran with three combat jumps, not to mention being a Paratrooper as well as a former Infantry Officer and a combat veteran myself. ( Grenada and Panama). I would never impugn on good men, however sadly as someone that led men; Not all are equal, nor do some really care about what they do and how well it's done. Often unions kept those kind of people employed that would have never been so in the world that many of the rest of us not just survived, but thrived in.
-Keith
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I would like to remind you Again ( as spec Ed would say)the double nozzle started during 67 product it is NOT a 68 only part.
Understood Bob. For the sake of clarity I was calling this a 68 part but in the document I already mentioned the change over date just to make it more exact. All is good in the world of washer nozzles now.
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God forbid I get caught with the wrong nozzle. ;D P.S. I wasn't aware there were any differences, so I just bought a set of reproductions without giving it much thought as to correctness. Thanks again for finding something I will have to change!
-Keith
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Nozzles are actually THE single most important part on a car. I actually think they should classify cars according to washer nozzles.
Okay....maybe not. Its April 1st today after all. ;)
Its just another cool detailing item when working on a restoration, or to notice on original cars.
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How would you guys replicate the finish on 68's?....would a good dark manganese phosphate application be close enough?
I haven't checked but I assume repros are painted and not plated.
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As far as the finish on the 68 nozzles I cant say for sure what that is, but there is a finish called "Zinc plate plus chromate, black" which is designated as a S43B.
S43B is a strong possibility. Here are some documents explaining S42 & S42B in more detail (full document is posted in the library).
Both finishes are going to give very good corrosion protection - S43B taking it to an extreme level. I don't know how much they differ visually - black chromate vs. OD chromate + black dye. To reproduce, you'd have to use zinc instead of cadmium, and then apply whichever chromate was used. OldMustangGuy asked about Mg phosphate - that would have a black appearance and provide good corrosion protection. I can't attest to how close it would look visually.
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After reading through Marcus' excellent article, I have a theory about the nozzle finishes. It appears that Ford was progressively increasing the corrosion resistance, possibly in response to internal corrosion from washer fluid. 65 started out with zinc plate, which gives good protection, then for late 67 went to black, which I think might be S42 (see previous discussion, although in the photo it looks like in could be dark Mg phos.). In 69 the finish was zinc +yellow dichromate, which is another step up. Then in 70, the OD would be probably S43 (or maybe S43B) cadmium + OD chromate. And in 71 they gave up on steel altogether.
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After reading through Marcus' excellent article, I have a theory about the nozzle finishes. It appears that Ford was progressively increasing the corrosion resistance, possibly in response to internal corrosion from washer fluid. 65 started out with zinc plate, which gives good protection, then for late 67 went to black, which I think might be S42 (see previous discussion, although in the photo it looks like in could be dark Mg phos.). In 69 the finish was zinc +yellow dichromate, which is another step up. Then in 70, the OD would be probably S43 (or maybe S43B) cadmium + OD chromate. And in 71 they gave up on steel altogether.
I pulled my can of "veteran" washer nozzles and all the tubing is non-metallic (copper ?), but the mounting brackets appear to be steel. I think it may have been a decision on the process of soldering the copper to the steel being replaced by a cheaper form of plastic molded nozzle.
Jim
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Yes single nozzle typically zinc. I am not sure what the finish on 2 nozzle which started in later 67 production(at least at SJ) is called. The dark finish reminds of the dark finish Seen sometimes on 68 marker light retainer bracket. I was told it was a common military grade finish but can't confirm. In the proper light it has kind of a dark rainbow effect like zinc dichromate gives off. Easier to see on a wider piece like the 68 mentioned part. I have had a number of NOS late 67 /68 double nozzle ones . The fresh plating on a NOS one makes it easier to understand. If you will be at Florida MCA show I believe a blue 67 GT500 entered will have some NOS ones. I too have plated black oxide to try and mimick finish closer. Thanks for doing the article.
Here is a Wittek clamp that happens to have the same finish .It is a little wider surface then the nozzle so as to get a better impression of the finish . what is hard to get to come through in the picture is the slight rainbow effect the plating gives to the dark bronze finish.
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I will look into this a bit more and see what I can find out. Thanks for posting the picture.