ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1966 Mustang => Topic started by: evantugby on February 19, 2018, 09:53:33 PM
-
Gents,
Look close. There are markings on the bare steel of the passenger side of my radiator support.
Question: is there some trick that I can do to make these markings stand out so they are clear?
-
why do you want them to stand out? they were put on the bare unibody then covered up by paint so they would not stand out. they had served their purpose prior to paint.
p.s. you need to remove all those clips & bolts for a proper refinish but you already knew that.
-
why do you want them to stand out? they were put on the bare unibody then covered up by paint so they would not stand out. they had served their purpose prior to paint.
p.s. you need to remove all those clips & bolts for a proper refinish but you already knew that.
carlite65,
Are you kidding me? I want to identify them like everyone else does when they uncover such clues. When the kar is painted they will go bye bye but while I have them uncovered I want to know what markings were put on my kar.
Does anyone have any enhancing photo skills to see anything? They only thing I can make out for sure is 63A (2+2 fastback).
-
Gents,
Look close. There are markings on the bare steel of the passenger side of my radiator support.
Again your choices of how to build this car comes into conflict. If you want to build it into a clone then you'll need to ignore and not reproduce these on the finished car
If you look at the thread on my 69 Boss 302 you will see how I chose to reproduce them - like originally done - under the engine compartment black
Question: is there some trick that I can do to make these markings stand out so they are clear?
[/quote]
Multiple angles using something like Photoshop adjusting the contrast all the way up and the darkness all the way down then moving the darkness to the light a little at a time. As it passes through different stages different parts of the markings were come into view. Then lessen the contrast and do it again in 4-5 steps.
If you choose you over lay a layer and mark highlights as you go through the process then come back and complete each line in a different color (so that each is an individual rather than a predetermined shape since sometimes these can be two or more markings one over the other or intersecting
Once done. look at the area from a distance, rotate the area and try and figure out what you have captured
Works well for me just takes time
In these areas (as discussed before in other threads) you can find second or first rotation numbers. Over or under black will help determine which is which. Interior code, exterior paint code, sometimes options or features depending on year and plant. Some plants and time periods there appears there was nothing applied.
-
Gents,
I'm not trying to replicate these markings. I'm simply trying to identify what they are.
Jeff, I will have to play with my picture adjustment tools a bit to see if I can distinguish anything other than the "63A" I see but I really think it's going to take some photo technology beyond what I have basic on my stock computer to read these markings.
Gents,
I'm willing to make a donation to your wallet for your time if you can send me the enhanced photographs that identify these markings. Note: I have the higher resolution pictures I can send you from my email: evantugby@hotmail.com Email me and I'll send them over if you want a shot.
Thanks,
Evan
-
Using the method I outlined
Picture #1 & #3 - since the other marking you decoded shows a standard interior was the interior a Parchment?
Picture #4 is likely PIO which would identify the body was going to be a GT and needed certain things added or not added
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/9/6-190218215227.jpeg)
Since NJ are fairly rare in unrestored condition (allot of them too rusty to help out in unrestored form) I don't have allot of radiator support pre paint markings to help or give us many clues
You interior and exterior codes might help - just for comparison purposes and maybe a place to start
-
Jeff,
PIO?! That's awesome! My kar is (was) a GT. Here is the info you asked for:
63A Z 26 23K 41 5 5
-
Was the exterior color Y? Just curious why take a Factory GT and clone it into a Shelby?
-
Was the exterior color Y? Just curious why take a Factory GT and clone it into a Shelby?
To some people they would rather have a Shelby but can't afford it. So a k-code is the closest thing to a Shelby gt350. Besides, this kar was original sauterne gold (puke) and I'm not interested in converting it back.
-
I'm a little confused. You are working the minutia but are modifying the car from original (Shelby clone with the wrong exterior color and more than likely wrong color interior). These departures are going to be hard to explain if you ever show the car. I think that you need to pick a theme (total stock or "modified") and go in that direction. If you pick the "modified" route you can save yourself a lot of time (which you say you have little of) and focus on the more important things.
Frank
-
Jeff,
PIO?! That's awesome! My kar is (was) a GT. Here is the info you asked for:
63A Z 26 23K 41 5 5
Reply #2 picture #3 may show a 26 if you rotate the picture counter clock-wise from how its posted.
-
I'm a little confused. You are working the minutia but are modifying the car from original (Shelby clone with the wrong exterior color and more than likely wrong color interior). These departures are going to be hard to explain if you ever show the car. I think that you need to pick a theme (total stock or "modified") and go in that direction. If you pick the "modified" route you can save yourself a lot of time (which you say you have little of) and focus on the more important things.
Guess the way I see it, the OP will have to explain the choices at some point, but that's not really our concern. The details discussed still have value here for others that may have the same questions or search topics in the future.
-
.................. The details discussed still have value here for others that may have the same questions or search topics in the future.
+1 And the reason this set of threads have remained here rather than being moved to the Lounge (non-concours related) area for the time being
-
I'm a little confused. You are working the minutia but are modifying the car from original (Shelby clone with the wrong exterior color and more than likely wrong color interior). These departures are going to be hard to explain if you ever show the car. I think that you need to pick a theme (total stock or "modified") and go in that direction. If you pick the "modified" route you can save yourself a lot of time (which you say you have little of) and focus on the more important things.
Frank
I have no interest in showing this kar for sport. What I am doing to the kar is for me. :)
-
Reply #2 picture #3 may show a 26 if you rotate the picture counter clock-wise from how its posted.
I'm not seeing it. Can you show it in yellow like you did with the PIO picture you uploaded?
-
Was the exterior color Y? Just curious why take a Factory GT and clone it into a Shelby?
Somebody else saw a "Y" also. I think I see the Y but not 100%. Was this a well known fact that assembly plants put the color-code of the kar on the front radiator support? If so, the "Y" wouldn't make sense for my kar.
-
..........Was this a well known fact that assembly plants put the color-code of the kar on the front radiator support? ...........
Don't know about the comment "well known fact" Allot of what we discuss here is not widely known details :)
I can show examples of some plants - some time periods were we have found the practice. As mentioned I don't have enough 66 NJ examples to state that it was a practice only threw the possibility out there to help with the search. Body type is not commonly found IMHO at other plants and years but it appears it is there on yours
Guess we didn't also ask (of you already answered this sorry I missed it) if the car had a buck tag.
-
Using the method I outlined
Picture #1 & #3 - since the other marking you decoded shows a standard interior was the interior a Parchment?
Picture #4 is likely PIO which would identify the body was going to be a GT and needed certain things added or not added
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/9/6-190218215227.jpeg)
Since NJ are fairly rare in unrestored condition (allot of them too rusty to help out in unrestored form) I don't have allot of radiator support pre paint markings to help or give us many clues
You interior and exterior codes might help - just for comparison purposes and maybe a place to start
Very interesting stuff.
Does my PIO appear consistent in terms of size of markings you've seen on others? I mean each letter is very fat, like a paint brush was used, not a wax crayon. Thoughts?
-
Very interesting stuff.
Does my PIO appear consistent in terms of size of markings you've seen on others? I mean each letter is very fat, like a paint brush was used, not a wax crayon. Thoughts?
As mentioned we don't have allot of 66 NJ examples of these markings to compare with. Yes they are much wider than I would have expected based on how the other marks were applied and how they were applied (as well as the results on term) at other plants. But we do still have the pitting/etching that suggests that the product was still a wax base and not a paint IMHO. If it had been paint the area would be smoother than the surrounding metal rather than the reverse we see in your picture.
Who knows. Maybe the worker was screwing around and ran is hand across, finger over or tried to correct a mis-mark
Maybe all he had was the short end of a crayon so he turned it side ways to do this last mark before he tossed it in the trash
-
Reply #2 picture #3 may show a 26 if you rotate the picture counter clock-wise from how its posted.
Jeff,
I'm still trying to see what you see in reference to this specific post you made. Can you outline what you are seeing please?
-
In your #1 photo the first line is 63A (which I realize you've already figured out). The second line is a "Y" that's written backwards. The last digit on the third line is "2". I am familiar with the backwards "Y" as my Oct 28, '65 Metuchen fastback had the same marking in the same location. All marks I located were on the passenger side of the radiator support. The third line on mine though had "GT" and "22". My fastback is a factory GT
"A" code car and is documented with a copy of a build sheet located and the buck tag. I can understand a the "Y" and the "22" on mine due to it being Silver Blue exterior and standard blue interior. Since you state your original exterior was not Silver Blue that sure throws things off as to what the "Y" stands for then!
A few suggestions to helping see the markings better: 1) wet the surface with water (it can provide some contrast in the color differences of the metal); 2) shoot your pics with no flash. The flash really washed out a lot of details in the photos you attached. I wish I had taken photos of my radiator support but it was stripped and then replaced many years ago (well before inexpensive digital cameras!). I did record all of the markings I found (which weren't many).
-
All marks I located were on the passenger side of the radiator support. The third line on mine though had "GT" and "22". My fastback is a factory GT
"A" code car and is documented with a copy of a build sheet located and the buck tag.....
A few suggestions to helping see the markings better: 1) wet the surface with water (it can provide some contrast in the color differences of the metal); 2) shoot your pics with no flash. The flash really washed out a lot of details in the photos you attached. I wish I had taken photos of my radiator support but it was stripped and then replaced many years ago (well before inexpensive digital cameras!). I did record all of the markings I found (which weren't many).
I discovered marks on mine in the same place back in the 80’s and seem to recall a K and/or GT designation but didn’t take any pics or write anything down. If I ever pull the front of the car off again, I’ll check it out.
As far as OP reading what he has, try misting it with paint and block sand with 400 or 600 grit which would remove paint from unetched metal
-
For info purposes I wanted to add my radiator support codes for my 66 Fastback GT K-code built at Metuchen.
Pic 1: Found what looks like "PIO" on driverside.
Pic 2: inked for visual
Pic 3: close up of 63A
Pic 4: 63A inked for visual. Can you tell what assembly line code is above it?
-
Interesting subject but would like to emphasize it is more typical that the markings are invisible on unrestored cars and less typical that you can see any signs of them . Consequently if any sign of them would be seen on a restored car it would be some kind of ghost look seen through thin engine compartment paint if at all. Just to be clear if the typical radiator support markings are seen on top of the black engine compartment paint that are meant to be under the paint (not to be confused with the rotation numbers etc) of a restored car in concours they would be subject to deductions.
-
I discovered marks on mine in the same place back in the 80’s and seem to recall a K and/or GT designation but didn’t take any pics or write anything down. If I ever pull the front of the car off again, I’ll check it out.
As far as OP reading what he has, try misting it with paint and block sand with 400 or 600 grit which would remove paint from unetched metal
I pulled my front valence to fix a little ding and as usual, one thing led to another so tonight I decided to see what was under the paint. Instead of 63A, I have FB etched into the metal on the passenger side. The driver side could be PI or some variant.
-
I pulled my front valence to fix a little ding and as usual, one thing led to another so tonight I decided to see what was under the paint. Instead of 63A, I have FB etched into the metal on the passenger side. The driver side could be PI or some variant.
Probably F8 for the interior code?
-
Probably F8 for the interior code?
Don’t think so, it’s a black interior car, 26 code. Also an interior color code would have been painted over long before it made it to interior paint. Definitely would make sense going down the line to know if it’s a 63A or Fastback (FB) - or coupe or convertible - to know what parts to weld on.
Looks like another example of Metuchen being consistently inconsistent.
-
Don’t think so, it’s a black interior car, 26 code. Also an interior color code would have been painted over long before it made it to interior paint. ..............
Interior paint would have been the first paint applied to the unibody after primer sealers and primer surfacers. Before exterior/trunk or engine compartment paint applications
-
Interior paint would have been the first paint applied to the unibody after primer sealers and primer surfacers. Before exterior/trunk or engine compartment paint applications
Going a little off topic maybe but out of curiosity, was the radiator support sprayed with primer/sealer before making it to interior paint or was it left bare metal?
-
Going a little off topic maybe but out of curiosity, was the radiator support sprayed with primer/sealer before making it to interior paint or was it left bare metal?
Depended on the worker how far up the radiator support and other panels up front they applied the primer sealer to. There are examples where the pocket created with the hood bumper brackets were not fully covered inside with the black and they often rusted fairly quickly due to the shadow (if the painter passed the spray gun only from above ) the bracket created and the primer guy didn't coat much above the front cross member as he applied primer to the front frame rails. in many examples the primer (overspray and all) may have only traveled half way up the face