ConcoursMustang Forums
General Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: midlife on October 22, 2009, 08:48:49 PM
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I ask this question of the concours crowd in all seriousness. There is no right answer, but I'm curious to see how individuals deal with the problem.
You all know when tackling an restoration, you want to do the very best job you can. Before starting, you always envision how it will turn out: absolutely perfect, of course! This includes anything from a single part to the whole enchilada. Now then...you start the work, and when you're done, it isn't quite perfect enough to your satisfaction. Do you start all over, or accept the flaws due to your inability to perform to your highest expections, craftsmanship, or perhaps the part itself? How do you make the decision that what you've done is good enough, or not good enough? Do you or can you ever achieve perfection? If not, how do you decide that what you've restored or refurbished is "good enough" and now you can move on to other things?
Obviously, some of you have high standards and can achieve them. Some of you also have high standards, but perhaps you don't have the right skills to do so, and hire others to do them. But...there are always flaws! So...how do you go about making the decision that you can live with what you have? Is it time? Money? Other things? How do you deal with not reaching absolute perfection?
For me, I wanted to restore Midlife to about 90% concours level, knowing it would never be judged at the highest level. As I learned restoration skills, I found I can't paint worth a damn, no matter how hard I try. On the otherhand, metal working skills (forming compound curves from flat metal and welding/grinding so that one doesn't need mud), and sheet-metal fitting/alignment came naturally. Not trying to be absolutely perfect allowed a more relaxed set of "good enough" criteria for me to satisfy. That was my decision level, and I basically decided to live with what I could accomplish by myself. So how do you make that decision that it's "good enough"?
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restoration = making something as it was originally.
These old Mustangs were far from perfect when they were new, and my restorations are far from perfect now. I strive for mediocrity! All kidding aside, we are working on cars that were considered a little on the substandard side when they were produced. Perfection is in the eye of the beholder in this hobby.
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restoration = making something as it was originally.
These old Mustangs were far from perfect when they were new, and my restorations are far from perfect now. I strive for mediocrity! All kidding aside, we are working on cars that were considered a little on the substandard side when they were produced. Perfection is in the eye of the beholder in this hobby.
I totally agree with John. We have to remember that these cars were designed and built by human beings. They weren't perfect when they were new. To properly restore one of these cars requires a certain level of "sloppiness" and imperfection. Otherwise, it misses the mark when comparing to "as-new" condition.
To be frank, the most common problem I see with restorations is workmanship. Parts will show sanding scratches under paint, alignment/fit of parts to the car is poor (these cars actually did fit together pretty good when new), trying to replicate natural/plated finishes with paint, etc... It takes many years of experience and research to finally learn how to restore individual components and also take into account assembly plant variances. I find myself still learning with each new restoration or observation of unrestored original cars.
So, really, it comes down to "good enough" is more dependent on your skill level and what the final goal is. I don't encourage mediocrity, but it is really the owner's choice. If they can't do it themselves, then they have to decide if paying someone else is worth it to them.
Sheesh, talk about opening up a can of worms!
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"Good Enough" state of mind happens when you don't want to do it again and again.
For me, trying to achieve perfection will only lead to frustrations and not being able to fully enjoy the project/end product.
Knowing that you restored a part the best you could and knowing it looks pretty nice is a reward in and of itself.....and realizing that those same parts look better than most you've seen on other cars even if they are not perfect.
I've purchased 3 NOS instrument bezels, found defects with them all.... so I am sticking with the last one I bought, they all have imperfections and all 3 had the original box..... should I keep buying NOS instrument bezels and hope the next one is dead mint, not me.
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I've purchased 3 NOS instrument bezels, found defects with them all.... so I am sticking with the last one I bought, they all have imperfections and all 3 had the original box..... should I keep buying NOS instrument bezels and hope the next one is dead mint, not me.
Another restoration dichotomy... knowing when even service replacement parts won't pass snuff. Restoring an original cluster would be your best chance at achieving "as-new" condition here.
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Pretty much it is good enough when I no longer think I can do it better. For example I painted the underside and then found some dings I should have fixed. I kept telling myself no one would notice but I kept thinking about them so I finally fixed it. I’ve not had to give up on anything that I started and have someone else finish it. I might be getting there with my paint though.
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Charles said it far better then I. If we spend our time, resources and effort trying to duplicate exactly what the Ford assembly plant did, we will be on the right track. Our best resource for determining "GOOD ENOUGH" is an unrestored car. When our cars are a mirror reflection of an unrestored car then we can stand back and say "GOOD ENOUGH'.
We see cars that ooze the smell of money poured into them, but the work is sometimes misdirected. When I mentioned trying to reach mediocrity I meant the kind of mediocrity that the Ford plants attained when our Mustangs were built rather than sloppy workmanship and use of hardware store bolts, painted surfaces that were in fact bare metal when our cars were new, and obvious glossing over of low level preparation.My definition of "GOOD ENOUGH" is when we can make a part or a component or an entire car look as if we had done nothing except turned the hands of time backwards to the day when our car was delivered to the original purchaser. That, indeed, will be "GOOD ENOUGH"!
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Murph and Charles: Fair enough for what you're saying about bringing back the car to what seems to be an "unrestored" condition.
My question was directed towards another side...at what point do you declare your own workmanship "good enough" despite the fact the results didn't match your expectation of "perfection" when you first started out on that piece?
Let me try and give an example. I stripped my metal dash on my 1966, primered it with DP90LF in preparation of the proper topcoat color (eggshell black). In the process of primering it, my gun slipped and got way too close to the surface and caused an obvious run. Using laquer thinner, I managed to clean it up quickly, and re-shot the primer. I can see the blemish through the topcoat because I know where to look. Was it worth stripping everything down again and starting all over? Some would do so, but I didn't. Even though I expected a perfect job of painting when I started out, I didn't achieve that result. It was "good enough" for me, knowing my poor abilities at painting.
So...the question is: how do you, as an individual, cope with not achieving the quality of the workmanship you expect? How do you define the dividing line between "good enough" and not good?
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So...the question is: how do you, as an individual, cope with not achieving the quality of the workmanship you expect? How do you define the dividing line between "good enough" and not good?
Honestly its when you have given up or achieved your goal. If you have fallen short the hard part is often accepting that you didn't make it and NOT making excuses for not achieving it. I see that too often - "well you know these things were never perfect".... "no two cars are the same"....... " you know they used anything they could find to keep the line going"...... on and on. Just admit that you couldn't get it right and accept it or fix it.
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My question was directed towards another side...at what point do you declare your own workmanship "good enough" despite the fact the results didn't match your expectation of "perfection" when you first started out on that piece?
One of the reasons we have judged car shows is so that an owner can find out if they hit the mark and did things the right way. Otherwise, how would one ever know what is good enough?
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Randy, I share your pain. As we are all aware, there are certain aspects of automobile restoration that each of us will NEVER be able to master. In fact, we will never even be able to do some aspects to an acceptable level. That is just a fact. In my case, putting on a conv. top is just something that no matter how much effort is expended, it isn't going to happen. I devoted a couple of hours each evening for an entire winter to a top replacement project, and although it seemed to be going OK for the most part there were always some wrinkles in one of the other sail panels, or a pucker in the plexi rear window, or just something that wasn't "good enough". I devoted my life to that job and it looked like a freshmen high school shop class had put on that top. When Spring rolled around I threw in the towel and had a pro finish the job. The point is that it was not within my ability to do that top replacement. Other jobs start out bad but after a couple of attempts one can reach the level we pictured when we started the project. We learn a lot of new skills when we fool with old cars, skills we thought only a pro would have. We learn by doing, and by doing unsuccesfully we learn that we should let others do SOME aspects of our restoration. It takes a real man to accept defeat, and in light of the fact that we have all been defeated many times it is surprising that we do not accept defeat more graciously. So it seems that we must do what we do best and farm out the jobs that no matter how hard we try are less than we hope for. Good enough at some jobs, not good enough to do everything, may be the real meaning of "GOOD ENOUGH"
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Sometimes it seems fixing a problem just isn't worth it.
My Indy pace coupe had a little problem I knew about, but no judged ever saw it. However, I knew it and it bugged the crap out of me.
So the car was taken apart and the problem corrected. However, in the process something else was damaged and created an even bigger problem.
Maybe should have left "good enough" alone.
Car will be taken down again this winter and the damage corrected.
It only needs one more gold before Conservator class, but that's not the point. It's about having the best car we can make it, not just winning awards.
J.
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"Good enough" revolves around time, money, ability and the infringment of other life priorities. As long as it stays as a positive with these guide lines, I'll still move forward. [jmo]
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"Good enough" revolves around time, money, ability and the infringment of other life priorities. As long as it stays as a positive with these guide lines, I'll still move forward. [jmo]
Definitely true! I would have to point out that money cannot buy everything though. I have seen restorations with $100k more more thrown at them and they probably should be re-done. Anyone that thinks cars such as Thoroughbred restorations are all about money are sadly mistaken!
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Charles,..I think money still has a part in it. Some one with a 5-10k budget will have a very hard time hitting the top level of the pyramid. Correct parts are drying up, costs of materials is contantly on the rise. Its just not that cheap to do a car as it has in the past.[jmo]
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I know exactly what your talking about with "GOOD ENOUGH" and go through that all the time with my 69 R code I am 3 years into restoring now. To give you a couple of examples I painted my engine bay a few months back and was satisfied with it for the most part but the more I looked at it I found some rust pits that where not all removed and a couple of dings I missed and it bothered me for a couple months while I was doing other things like painting the undercarriage. Now it's time to install suspension parts and I needed to make a decision on the engine bay, so I just started doing it over and I am glad I did, as you really are not doing it completely over, your just correcting some errors and flaws and repainting it. On the other hand I replaced my floor pan with a reproduction one piece floor and the fit was OK after much time put in, I reproduced the factory spot welds as best I could and then you get to the fact the new floor has a extra pair of drain pugs in the front and the ribbing is slightly different in that area. At first I was just going to weld up the front drain plugs and grind it flush, then I got more picky and sectioned in a piece of the original floor webbing and kind of "faked it out" the best I could. I am still not happy with it however I painted the floor and have decided on "GOOD ENOUGH" on that part. One of the biggest problems in this hobby is poor quality parts that you have little control over. Most of the reproduction parts out there are TAIWAN junk, some NOS parts are impossible to find and lets face it most of these cars where driven hard, wrecked and rusted out. I was told a long time ago the better car you start with the better car you finish with, I believe that is very true, just due to the fact that some things are impossible to duplicate and with poor quality parts it just comppounds. One thing to keep in mind there is nothing perfect in this world and the strive for perfection is what drives better and better restorations. Perfection is also in the eye of the beholder as I remember one time a guy at a car show looked at the paint on my boss 302 and said " I can't see anything wrong with the paint job but I bet you do". I replied are you kidding that is all I see is the flaws. You definitely have to pick your battles and I found it's easier to live with something beyond your control than your own personal workmanship issues. You are definitely not alone in this battle and good luck on your project.
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I was told a long time ago the better car you start with the better car you finish with, I believe that is very true, just due to the fact that some things are impossible to duplicate and with poor quality parts it just compounds.
That's it right there! Trying to piece something together is very difficult. It's getting to where if you don't have a good car to start with, you better start looking for a good donor car! Of course, built about the same time and from the same assembly plant.
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Good is deffently not good enough when you paid someone to do a job that you could have done better your self. I think is better to try and fail and learn something even if that something is that you can't do it, than not try at all. Marty