ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Interior & Trunk => Topic started by: sparky65 on July 07, 2012, 04:20:16 PM
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From everything I've read it sounds like the screw and washers in the jack should not be painted. Well I just started to wipe mine down with degreaser and I found paint on the screw. From looking at it everything seems original. It still has the sticker on it. Also the paint has runs and bubbles like it was dipped and no obvious signs it was repainted. Could it possibly be the wrong jack? The only marking I see is an 'RH' on the top and a '2' stamped in the side.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-x3TRPgq5etU/T_iI5fZKjAI/AAAAAAAADN4/Lk5jkiANkSk/s800/DSC02308.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-LBx057XzEHM/T_iJBwRN9ZI/AAAAAAAADOA/fLJO_iY4vA4/s800/DSC02309.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AezEmkhkLeE/T_iJHapwecI/AAAAAAAADOI/Su9_99M4onY/s800/DSC02310.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Vgx7PhgUfvA/T_iJLJDdX5I/AAAAAAAADOU/lrENa2x2eq4/s800/DSC02311.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-U-r1M6k7oTw/T_iJOt_6I7I/AAAAAAAADOc/MuucjxgPCX0/s800/DSC02312.JPG)
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Can't answer, but interested in a reply. I have 3 or 4 jacks, one as yours, one without the "flip top" W sheaed piece and a notch instead, and a couple others.
Wondering if anyone knows a site with photos of correct 65-68 jacks as it appers they may have varied slightly... or a lot of simialr repros/service units were made a long time ago...
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What you have here is a correct jack for a 1967, and yes the entire assembly was not painted. The screw and washers would not be painted. I've done all the research on correct jacks and handles for 64.5 thru 1978 and this is one of the three style jacks made from one of the three suppliers during that time.
If you look closely on the outside arms you may be able to find the date code. If you are not sure where to look I can post some photos. On some of them you have to look very close to see the stampings.
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What you have here is a correct jack for a 1967, and yes the entire assembly was not painted. The screw and washers would not be painted. I've done all the research on correct jacks and handles for 64.5 thru 1978 and this is one of the three style jacks made from one of the three suppliers during that time.
If you look closely on the outside arms you may be able to find the date code. If you are not sure where to look I can post some photos. On some of them you have to look very close to see the stampings.
Some or all of the 1967 jacks had course threads.
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Actually the coarse threads are only specfic to one vendor and was used all during these years. I have plenty of examples that show both fine and coarse with date code stamps for 1967.
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What you have here is a correct jack for a 1967, and yes the entire assembly was not painted. The screw and washers would not be painted.
Ok, Ill just assume it got a repaint somewhere along the line.
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Actually the coarse threads are only specfic to one vendor and was used all during these years. I have plenty of examples that show both fine and coarse with date code stamps for 1967.
Marcus, all I am sure about is that it is confusing :o . I don't think all were date stamped. I just got finished examining about 10 examples and only 3 out of the ten are date stamped. The ones that were date stamped were deep and pronounced . No particular pattern on style of jack . I couldn't find any faint date stampings on the ones painted or stripped of paint. I haven't come across a date stamped San Jose jack yet but maybe there were way less of them? All of the ones I have found in cars that were date coded seem to come from the Dearborn plant cars and a few NJ cars . Even the Dearborn and Metuchen plants it appears didn't always get date stamped it seems IMHO. I only doubt all came date stamped because of the lack of frequency of finding a date coded example compared to a non date coded one .In my area in the Midwest we see many more parts and cars that come from the east then the west.I did notice 5 different versions (there may be more!) As I was checking the short and the long jacks style (early /late) out for date stamps I also noticed besides the coarse and Fine threads and the different style of screw/nut brackets I noticed 4 different "W" tops NOT including the 71 style notched top which I never collect. I sure hope you can make some sense of it .I am looking forward to your findings.
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Ok, Ill just assume it got a repaint somewhere along the line.
That is a safe bet IMHO.
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Bob....actually its pretty simple once I lay it all out with pictures and drawings I have. I will be sharing that with everyone very soon. There was two basic designs that Ford used (with some varations) for the Mustang jacks from 64.5 to mid 1970. And three vendors supplied jacks....but all three were from the Detroit area so there is no such thing as a San Jose, Dearborn or Metuchen jack. The suppliers shipped to all three productions facilities and I have that confirmed from speaking with people who worked there during that time and still work in that industry today.
Date codes started in January 1967.
In your first picture "Mustang jack 1" there is 5 jacks shown. The two on the right (or on top - looking at the picture the way it is) are early jacks that were used for the 64.5/65/66 model years. You wil notice they also have shorter arms. The other three jacks are 67-70 style and should have a date code. Sometimes the date code is very faint and sometimes they are even on the insides of the arms. The exceptions would be anything before Jan 1967. If you look hard enough you should find it.
Here is a March 67 jack (to stay consistent with this thread) and showing where the stamping would be and somtimes very faint and hard to see. See if this helps you find them...
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/azscj/DSCN0054.jpg)
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/azscj/DSCN0055.jpg)
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Marcus what about the 4 different design perches on top ? What is that about .The picture I posted of the 4 was to show the different varieties of tops . The picture of the 5 was to show 5 distinct different versions that I had in my shop .There may be more ! I am not sure that is just what I had laying around. One long and one short jack in the 5 picture were similar just different time period styles. I am aware of the short for the early and longer of the 67-70 as I indicated in my previous thread .This issue is confusing but I am not new to this ;) . Marcus I am sorry to have to say I looked on the inside and outside on the jack arms today after reading your observation and could only find 3 out of 10 jacks that had date codes among a variety of styles . I had a couple that I had already paint stripped . They did not have any date codes inside or outside that I could see and I was looking for faint stamps. I am skeptical that they are so faint that I am overlooking them. The ones I have are not as pitted as the picture you showed so I know the stamps were not obliterated by any pitting because there was none. I am not trying to disagree on purpose it is just that there is evidence or lack of evidence for not all to have a date stamp based on the small sampling I have in my shop and many others that I have seen over the years. I find it hard to believe I would have that many anomolies in one place. Besides I have looked at other jacks at swap meets and the like for date codes and I found way more that didn't have a apparent date code then ones that did. I can't believe I am the only one that has noticed this. The reference of Dearborn and Metuchen jacks was for the purpose of identifying the cars in which I have found jacks with date code stamps . If my theory is correct and they were not all date stamped the cars that the jacks came out of may indicate a supply of different types to those plants by the manufacturer in that area . Just like Modine supplied different constructed radiators to Dearborn vs San Jose from different Modine mfg plants ;) . Just some more information ,theories and opinion for the discussion. Others my have different views.
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Interesting discussion. Just another of those cases of the more you find out the less you know? Marty
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I got to reading all this "jack stuff" so I pulled the one in my to be done pile and did a bit of closer inspection. This one came from a collection of 65 and 66 parts so it's almost off topic. There does not to appear to be a date code stamp like the one Marcus has but it does have the paper instruction label, faded to nothing. It does have a tiny bit paint on the teflon washer and possibly some on the drive screw. The configuration is a combination of the top and bottom jacks in Bob's first picture, the drive screw ends are like the bottom jack into a block, the saddle is like the top jack, just a dip. What caught my eye is the drive screw. It is a double square cut thread - get that, double cut thread. If somebody is ambitious, would they check theirs for this type of thread. I used a black Sharpie felt tip pen placed on a thread and turned the drive screw a couple of full turns. It skips a thread.
Jim
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I certainly respect the great research that Marcus has done concerning the jack assemblies, but I sure have seen quite a few that were completely painted black (including the adjusting bolt and nut). These were all original jacks with the decal in place and absolutely no evidence of a repaint.
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Marcus what about the jack handle that goes with jack as they need to stay together as i have seen 5 versions & have been trying to doc this over the years from unmolested original cars & i think it is an assembly plant issue as every dearborn car i seen has fine thread 69-70 anyway & 68 69 70 nj cars coarse thread from what i seen.
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This is a great project, I have access to jacks 1967-73. Let me know how I can contribute.
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Brant i have seen original jacks with the nut end area only painted black but dont know what car they came from. The jacks also came with the grease on the threads & area under the flip lever that rubs jack top when jacking up or down.
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I will just make a few quick comments as otherwise this thread will become too confusing to follow since the original question was about a 1967 jack only.
Just want to point out that Ford never actually made any of the jacks. They had three vendors doing this, and all three had manufacturing plants in the Detroit area. In the example of the coarse thread jacks these were all manufactured in St. Joseph Michigan and shipped to all three Mustang production plants. And these same three vendors made the jack handles as well. There are variations over the years of the jacks and handles.
As for the date codes, I want to make sure we are not intermixing the first generation jacks, because those are included in the pictures in the previous postings which adds to the confusion. None of those would have date codes. There is a specific reason the date codes started in Jan 1967 which had to do with government regulations. I cant say that every single jack ever manufactured after that date did have one....its likely some did not, just like not all engines got the VIN Numbers stamped that were 'supposed' to. Remember, from '64 to '73, we are talking about 3 million Mustang jacks. Same with the paint process.....there could have been changes made during all those years, but I can make some general comments based on the data I collected and the drawings I have.
I will share everything we have found with detailed pictures when we are finished. Trying to get that done very soon, hopefully in the next month or so.
Jim,
I have no idea what the "double square cut thread" is that you are referring to. If you post a picture it would be useful.
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Marcus,
See the attached picture. It's from an engineering book I used in school back in the 60's. This shows the design of a double thread and even a tripple thread. The design advantage is speed. A square cut, instead of the "V" cut, would have the "crest" (from the picture) flat and parallel to the threaded item, the two sides perpendicular and the "root" parallel as well. The design advantage is strength.
Jim
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Ok, thanks. So can you post a picture of the jack so we are all looking at the same thing here? I would like to see that as well.
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For the non-believers, skeptics and Show-Me State (oops, that's Missouri) people, I proudly present - Jack (what, no fanfare?)
I even did two complete turns and highlighted them in chalk. The "square cut" may be closer to an "Acme" cut.
Jim
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I have a jack I pulled out of a 70 San Jose mach1 25 years ago, has the original paint (obviously dipped) and some of the screw threads had black paint along with the nut, but not the washers???. I know this was original to the car and never been painted as there is no dry spray in the places that are impossible to coat without dipping.
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Thanks Jim. Pictures help explain what you were describing here.
As for the paint on the jacks themselves the paint process changed over the years but the drive screws themselves should never have a heavy coat or paint on them. What the manufacturers sometimes did is they installed the drive screw backwards into the partially assembled jack and it was then dipped. This coated the nut end and about 2 to 4 inches of the drive screw. After dry the screw was removed and reinstalled the correct way with the bearing (washers). The paint itself was a low grade gloss black.
You can see from these pictures here of an NOS jack exactly what I described here with the drive screw partially painted.
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/azscj/NOSJack3-1.jpg)
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/azscj/NOSJack1.jpg)
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I could see how that could happen (partially painting shaft waiting for it to dry and reinstall) on a jack like is pictured because the screw shaft is held in place by a pin. Other jacks instead of a pin have the metal on the screw shaft swedged so that it will not back out of the jack . You can't remove it without grinding away the swedged metal. I wonder if that type were the ones that didn't get paint on the screw shaft?
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Bob go back to sparkys65 DEARDBORN jack photo (top first post) shaft is swedged & has paint on nut end. I just went up to my attic (you know the place stairway to heaven) & looked thru 3 like new jacks i put away over the years for my cars & i see some black paint on nut end & on cad washers. Looks like the paint didnt stay on shaft end nut area & washers very well because phos plating (shaft) & (cad) on washers first before paint never lasts as long as paint on raw metal does & you can pop paint off with just your fingernail on this area or from just getting rough handling over the years in trunk. It looks like no sign of paint on shaft area where threads start. I have no idea where these 3 jacks came from as i have been collecting fine thread jacks for years because thats the type i have always seen in 69-70 original dearborn cars & got about 20 here now. These jacks i find mostly in the east & on my trips out west i find the other type jacks around the ones with the loose nut shaft screw end. I know at least some of the jacks have black paint on nut ends as i have seen too many that way but dont know the pattern there & will have to look thru old photos of original cars to see if i can (put the old HAWKEYE) on them & see any signs of paint in that area.
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If we are only working with three vendors then all of the different possible combinations (dozens ?) would most likely be the result of time period changes to the physical characteristics of the jacks. This certainly complicates things. Known unmolested examples (more then one example EDDDD) along with the corresponding handle would be one way to determine application in a certain time period. It would be difficult for sure.
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Bob just disagreeing (imagine that AGAIN) with you on the nut end having black paint & agreeing with brant on this & yes i have several original paint jacks here with some remnats of black on shaft yet at least 20 since you have 10 HA HA. I have looked at these jacks over the years & never found any black overspray on the decal so i know many were done that way. Marcus the coarse thread jack you have isnt the type i see in NJ 68-70 cars anyway as it has a loose square cad plated nut on end of screw shaft.
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Bob just disagreeing (imagine that AGAIN) with you on the nut end having black paint & agreeing with brant on this & yes i have several original paint jacks here with some remnats of black on shaft yet at least 20 since you have 10 HA HA. I have looked at these jacks over the years & never found any black overspray on the decal so i know many were done that way. Marcus the coarse thread jack you have isnt the type i see in NJ 68-70 cars anyway as it has a loose square cad plated nut on end of screw shaft.
How odd that is you disagreeing with me ;D . Strange that you were the one that brought it to my attention that I shouldn't have paint on the jack screw when you were cretiqueing a jack of mine in a trunk one time ::) . That is OK I guess even Special Ed can have a revision in his perspective(even though he will never admit it :D)
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Years ago restorers painted the entire jack black because you cant get the shaft out of jack when swedged or crimped in on the dearborn style fine thread jacks. We tried flattening the 2 swedges a little & using the air wrench reverseing the socket & backing out the shaft. Then we stripped the shaft & 2 washers & sent washers out for cad & shaft for phos plating. Painted jack then reassembled the plated parts & we do several jacks at a time to make it worthwhile. I havent been painting the nut ends because i dont know why some where painted & it dont make sense why they would come back after jack was painted & paint nut end. The ones i seen with black were very thin coating & mainly on nut end. I wonder if (like marcus said) they painted jack with shaft in backward then took shaft back out of jack & switched ends then reinstalled shaft back correct way then swedged 2 areas on shaft (to keep it from coming apart). Or could they have simply flipped shaft while still in jack after paint & threaded it back in since the block( where shaft goes thru) swivels on sides of jack. This process could vary according to who or how much paint was used at that time (kind of like the lower control arms black paint line varied accordingly). The problem again is documenting this as jacks got used & throwed around in trunks & put in other cars or left in garage after cleaning out trunk & ended up on e-bay or swap meets. Either way paint never stayed on over plated cad washers & phos shafts so you have to put the ole hawkeye on that area to see signs of paint on used jacks. If this can be documented on ALL jacks done this way i will start putting some paint on the nut end. I am going to my storage place & look tomorrow in my purple car trunk as when i got it in early 80s it came out of a storage place parked in 73 & the trunk area was unmolested with jack still in place from new & i kept it that way so i will put the ole hawkeye on it tomorrow unless too many beers get consumed & i think i just drank my last PBR (probably a good thing) out of 25 free cases i got 2 months ago before all the c ar events & i had a hard time even giving it away.
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Years ago restorers painted the entire jack black because you cant get the shaft out of jack when swedged or crimped in on the dearborn style fine thread jacks. We tried flattening the 2 swedges a little & using the air wrench reverseing the socket & backing out the shaft. Then we stripped the shaft & 2 washers & sent washers out for cad & shaft for phos plating. Painted jack then reassembled the plated parts & we do several jacks at a time to make it worthwhile. I havent been painting the nut ends because i dont know why some where painted & it dont make sense why they would come back after jack was painted & paint nut end. The ones i seen with black were very thin coating & mainly on nut end. I wonder if (like marcus said) they painted jack with shaft in backward then took shaft back out of jack & switched ends then reinstalled shaft back correct way then swedged 2 areas on shaft (to keep it from coming apart). Or could they have simply flipped shaft while still in jack after paint & threaded it back in since the block( where shaft goes thru) swivels on sides of jack. This process could vary according to who or how much paint was used at that time (kind of like the lower control arms black paint line varied accordingly). The problem again is documenting this as jacks got used & throwed around in trunks & put in other cars or left in garage after cleaning out trunk & ended up on e-bay or swap meets. Either way paint never stayed on over plated cad washers & phos shafts so you have to put the ole hawkeye on that area to see signs of paint on used jacks. If this can be documented on ALL jacks done this way i will start putting some paint on the nut end. I am going to my storage place & look tomorrow in my purple car trunk as when i got it in early 80s it came out of a storage place parked in 73 & the trunk area was unmolested with jack still in place from new & i kept it that way so i will put the ole hawkeye on it tomorrow unless too many beers get consumed & i think i just drank my last PBR (probably a good thing) out of 25 free cases i got 2 months ago before all the c ar events & i had a hard time even giving it away.
Ed ,you have been reading too many of Gary's long rambling posts . You sound just like him ;D ;D ;D or maybe it is the PBR ;)
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The jack that resides in my 69 is stamped ' B 7 '. At the base of the flip top is stamped a small ' A ' and on the under side of the handle is stamped another ' A '. Any significance/meaning ? Brian
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The jack that resides in my 69 is stamped ' B 7 '. At the base of the flip top is stamped a small ' A ' and on the under side of the handle is stamped another ' A '. Any significance/meaning ? Brian
Typically the "B" would stand for February and the "7" for 1967 . So more then likely the jack is not original to your 1969 car.
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is it coarse thread with square nut on end?
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Thanks for the date code info. Course thread and nut. My question should have more properly addressed to the significance of the stamped letter ' A ' ? Common, uncommon, shift, different car line or never seen before ? Brian
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That would be a coarse thread jack supplied by Ausco to Ford. They were the one vendor out of the three that used coarse thread drive screw on all their jacks. They also supplied jacks for Corvettes during the same time....also with coarse thread.
And they were manufacturing the jack handles as well. Agree with Bob on the date code. You have a 1967 jack.
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I think after reading all of these conflicting reports on what is correct with the jacks, I decided my car must have come with the jack delete option. :)
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Thanks for sharing Marcus. It looks like Ausco is still in business in Michigan. Brian
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Yes, Ausco is still in business but they no longer manufacture jacks. They sold that off several years ago....
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I think after reading all of these conflicting reports on what is correct with the jacks, I decided my car must have come with the jack delete option. :)
Agree, didn't think this would be all that complicated. Still don't know if I will paint the screw or not. I really dont understand why they would have used it to dip the jack. Seems like a simple hook would have been easier to use.
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I did look at my original unmolested jack in the trunk of my 69 shelby & i never took it out but seen no sign of any black on nut end area. I have been inspecting more fine thread jacks around shop & storage spots & have been seeing them both ways but problem is not knowing their original orgin.
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Date codes started in January 1967.
Very easy to find this one. Must have been brand new stamps!
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-F7gXIz09F5w/UAuPS3arBvI/AAAAAAAADd8/YqQFiAp2q-0/s640/2009-09-007.JPG)
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From looking at it everything seems original. It still has the sticker on it. Also the paint has runs and bubbles like it was dipped and no obvious signs it was repainted. The only marking I see is an 'RH' on the top and a '2' stamped in the side.
Sounds identical to the jack in my 67 Dearborn car, 08B build date, except my 7A date code is very easy to see.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-zSP18-nqseQ/UAuPrLypdNI/AAAAAAAADeI/MQ4g_m1rna4/s640/2009-09-06_62.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-e_bh9N7gASw/UAuP4Ty2fYI/AAAAAAAADeQ/OSrY54RnYa0/s640/2009-09-06_27.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-IjsEEzUSGnc/UAuQSY6jqGI/AAAAAAAADeY/e06qQuYuII8/s640/2009-09-06_23.JPG)
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Those pictures make perfect sense for your car with the date codes and is what I would consider correct.
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The rh fine thread jack in photo is what i see on dearborn cars but the handle changed in 69.
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Sounds identical to the jack in my 67 Dearborn car, 08B build date, except my 7A date code is very easy to see.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-zSP18-nqseQ/UAuPrLypdNI/AAAAAAAADeI/MQ4g_m1rna4/s640/2009-09-06_62.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-e_bh9N7gASw/UAuP4Ty2fYI/AAAAAAAADeQ/OSrY54RnYa0/s640/2009-09-06_27.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-IjsEEzUSGnc/UAuQSY6jqGI/AAAAAAAADeY/e06qQuYuII8/s640/2009-09-06_23.JPG)
Hi,
Mine also as a RH on top, and a larger 2 on the 2 legs , both identical as shown in your pictures. As far as the date, there is at the same location as you show just a letter K instead of a a date code, like yours of 7A.
What does that K stand for? My car is a 68 San Jose, built in april.
Thanks
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Sounds identical to the jack in my 67 Dearborn car, 08B build date, except my 7A date code is very easy to see.
It does appear to be identical. And it looks like you have paint on the un-threaded end of the screw as well. It seems the reason mine doesn't have a date code is my car has an Oct 66 build date.
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Hi,
As far as the date, there is at the same location as you show just a letter K instead of a a date code, like yours of 7A.
What does that K stand for? My car is a 68 San Jose, built in april.
Thanks
I'm thinking you are missing a "7" and the K stands for October?
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Hi,
Mine also as a RH on top, and a larger 2 on the 2 legs , both identical as shown in your pictures.
Thanks
Upon closer inspection I found a second "2" on the inside of one of the legs.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Bkb1Znw2VVo/UBw2FV2aEpI/AAAAAAAADhI/njFC_UHy6C4/s640/2012-07-29_13.JPG)
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I'm thinking you are missing a "7" and the K stands for October?
I have a jack with all the same markings including the lone " K " and no other numbers so apparently not a isolated anomaly .
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Here's another variation. The owner swears it was in his 66 Hardtop when he bought the car in 1968 ("AKA came out of"). On the block where the nut goes thru for the elevation screw is stamped - "AD 844". He also claims the unusual top fits the notch on the pinch weld "perfectly".
Jim
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late 70 & 71 up style & this is most common service replacement jack sold as d1zz.
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This is a great project, I have access to jacks 1967-73. Let me know how I can contribute.
Yes but do you know which car each one came from? ;)
Guessing you likely marked them
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Yes but do you know which car each one came from? ;)
Guessing you likely marked them?
Unfortunately, no. We sell them all of the time, the nicest examples get sent to the warehouse. The rusty ones usually remain in the cars.
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Jwc66k - this jack you put the photos of here is a mid 1970 to end of 1973 model year jack. Not correct for a 66 at all. But yes, most likely could work on the pinch weld of an earlier car with no problems.
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Here is a quick shot of a 69 NJ jack (car had allot of original parts and details) to offer to the discussion. Will look for stampings later
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/Indiviual%20Parts/9T02M1863xxjack.jpg)
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A friend, who owns a much later 67 Shelby than mine, asked if all 67s had the cast iron end on the jack handle or if the later cars had the steel hex.
I thought 68s on up had the steel hex and a hole in the handle, but couldn't answer his question about later SJ cars -- especially Shelbys.
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Since this thread has moved far away from the original focus (67-68) moving it to a better home ;)
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Forget my original post (reply 54) as I poked around and found that there is an early and late 67 jacking instruction label.
Early puts the handle and jack under the tire.
Later puts the handle on top so there is a hole in it for the clamp down wingnut.
Anyone want to venture answers on the following:
1) cast steel socket on handle -- 67 only and plant applicable?
2) hex socket on handle -- no hole -- 67 only and plant applicable?
3) hex socket on handle -- hole -- years and plant applicable?
4) Bob G. has said in a few posts that 67 SJ Shelbys all used the U-trunnion jacks. Does that mean all SJ Mustangs got this style?
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Forget my original post (reply 54) as I poked around and found that there is an early and late 67 jacking instruction label.
Early puts the handle and jack under the tire.
Later puts the handle on top so there is a hole in it for the clamp down wingnut.
Anyone want to venture answers on the following:
1) cast steel socket on handle -- 67 only and plant applicable?
2) hex socket on handle -- no hole -- 67 only and plant applicable?
3) hex socket on handle -- hole -- years and plant applicable?
4) Bob G. has said in a few posts that 67 SJ Shelbys all used the U-trunnion jacks. Does that mean all SJ Mustangs got this style?
I am answering as it pertains to 67 Shelby 1)+4)- It is very coincidental that all of the survivor 67's I have come across had the u shaped triunion on the jack. Not to say the predominantly Dearborn Metuchen style solid block style couldn't be found but it is more of a anomaly as it pertains to 67 Shelby IMO. If you had one in your 67 Shelby it would suspect if I was judging given my years of observations. 2)+3) - The bell shaped lugwrench is what I have found typical in 67 Shelby survivor cars regardless of production period which has lead me to believe that is the typical style. FYI I have not come across a 3/4 inch hex tube lugwrench . If they are out there they are less common then the 3/4 bell shaped version. The 67 Shelby Magstar wheel with it's 3/4 lugnut was used all the way to the end of 67 production. This supports the bell shape style throughout 67 Shelby production. The only time I have found a hex tube lug wrench in a original context was a few instances where on a magstar equipped car there was a bell shaped lugwrench for the 3/4 lug nuts and a hex tube style for the scissor jack screw drive. There was a TSB describing this situation when a 3/4 screw drive jack was not put with the car . The 13/16 hex tube style lug wrench was added by the dealer to match the 13/16 drive of the typical jack to solve the problem. In some original owner instances a monetary rebate was given so that the owner could go buy a aftermarket 13/16 lugwrench to operate the jack. All of the bell shaped lugwrenchs typically seen in a 67 Shelby did not have the hole for mounting on top of the spare. This leads me to believe mounting on top of the spare was not done on 67 Shelby production. Possibly given the many instances where a deluxe wheel may be used on a 67 Shelby that the idea of mounting the jack on top would damage the deluxe center and chrome rim. Of course 68 Shelby's had hubcaps so it didn't matter and on 69/70 Shelby the jack was mounted on top of a space saver with a round disc shape pad to cushion the jack from the gouging the wheel.
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Always appreciate the Shelby specific information, Bob.
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i have a question was the jack that came from the supplier dipped or spray painted ? Iam thinking dipped but what do i know. Mark
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i have a question was the jack that came from the supplier dipped or spray painted ? Iam thinking dipped but what do i know. Mark
Information here; http://anghelrestorations.com/uploads/3/5/1/2/35122002/mustang_jack_identification_guide_v1.3.pdf
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To take this up.
Could anyone tell me what jack and wrench for which date I got here?
I assume later 67, may be even 68?, no date code on it, but I and 1 stamped. Indiana.
And which year shows the second pic?
RH stamped, no date code on.
Found pic 3 from Anghel Resto.
Which one would be the correct jack for my car 66 Nov?
Thank you.
Ralf
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look at the pages here..
https://anghelrestorations.com/mustang-factoids/
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To take this up.
Could anyone tell me what jack and wrench for which date I got here?
I assume later 67, may be even 68?, no date code on it, but I and 1 stamped. Indiana.
And which year shows the second pic?
RH stamped, no date code on.
Thank you.
Ralf
Upper picture Jack handle with a hole in the middle is 68 up.The jack is a typical SJ 67-70 jack. The lower picture bell shaped lug wrench without a hole in the handle is 67 production. The jack in that picture is the typical Metuchen and Dearborn 67-70 style. Unlike what some believe not all jacks came date code marked. It only takes one without a date code to prove that line of thought incorrect. There are more jacks without date goods then ones with date codes from my point of view based on what I have seen.
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Thank you.
Could you verify on pic 3 vs my car built date, pls?
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Thank you.
Could you verify on pic 3 vs my car built date, pls?
Of the pictures that you posted you want the jack from the top picture (SJ style jack with "U" shape trunnion) and the handle from the bottom picture lug wrench with out hole in the center (67 style).
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Thank you.
Attached 2 pics.
The first set should be correct for my car Nov. 30, 66
The second set should be 67.
Could you confirm?
Thanks Ralf
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Thank you.
Attached 2 pics.
The first set should be correct for my car Nov. 30, 66
The second set should be 67.
Could you confirm?
Thanks Ralf
Now since you switched jacks around the first set has a proper SJ jack with a 67 handle.
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Perfect.
Big hand to all helped. :)
I was not aware that jacks and handles can be such tricky to sort out.
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NOTE: the following few posts were separated from wanted request in that section of the site and merged with this thread to keep related discussions together and easier for others later searching for information, to find
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No such thing as a NJ , Dearborn, or San Jose jack. This has been an ongoing old wives tail for years that keeps getting passed around. There was three different suppliers that shipped to all factories. Ideally you just need a Mustang jack with a correct date code. I would check Ebay.
https://anghelrestorations.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/quick_guide_-_mustang_jacks.pdf (https://anghelrestorations.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/quick_guide_-_mustang_jacks.pdf)
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No such thing as a NJ , Dearborn, or San Jose jack. This has been an ongoing old wives tail for years that keeps getting passed around. There was three different suppliers that shipped to all factories. Ideally you just need a Mustang jack with a correct date code. I would check Ebay.
https://anghelrestorations.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/quick_guide_-_mustang_jacks.pdf (https://anghelrestorations.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/quick_guide_-_mustang_jacks.pdf)
So are you saying that there was not a prevalent style jack that were used at specific assemblyly plants ? Are you suggesting that all 67-70 jacks have date codes?
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Bob....yes that is exactly what I am saying. Exactly. Too many times we are on a show field and I hear that a certain car should have a "Dearborn jack" or it must have a coarse thread jack and all of that doesnt add up.
There are certain style jacks for certain years, and there was multiple vendors supplying these.
As for date codes seems they started in 1967 and alot of them have date codes but we all have seen enough examples out there that do not have any date codes.
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Bob....yes that is exactly what I am saying. Exactly. Too many times we are on a show field and I hear that a certain car should have a "Dearborn jack" or it must have a coarse thread jack and all of that doesnt add up.
There are certain style jacks for certain years, and there was multiple vendors supplying these.
As for date codes seems they started in 1967 and alot of them have date codes but we all have seen enough examples out there that do not have any date codes.
Marcus,based on your comments I suppose your past article statements on jack dates that leave no room for anything but a dated jack need to be clarified/modified . By the same token I respectfully disagree with your usage theory . The fine thread/course thread is not me. Although you can say that there are examples of various jacks being used regardless of plants I have found predominate style jacks form a pattern of usage at certain assemblyline plants more so then others . I am surprised that you have not noticed the patterns. There are other examples of certain styles of parts being used at various plants but patterns of those same parts being predominate used at specific plants over others. Tie down brackets style is just another example that comes to mind. My interest are specifically Shelby's but those cars started out as Mustangs . With that said I have been studying these patterns for almost 40 years and during that time I have inspected a large number of survivor type Shelby's. The many cars that I have studied helped me see a distinct "pattern" as it relates to the jacks . I do not use the word "all" but have indeed seen enough that a distinct pattern became apparent . I could not ignore what I was seeing in this respect but that is just me. I think your article on the jack subject is excellent but needs a few small tweeks to make it more accurate. I would suggest in the least confrontational way that you keep a more open mind on this subject. I have shared my knowledge with you when you have asked me and apparently trusted so I would like you giving me the benefit of the doubt in this case for my point of view. We can also agree to disagree . Regardless I will continue to advise my opinion based on what I have seen along with info shared by others until the evidence suggest otherwise.
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Bob....yes that is exactly what I am saying. Exactly. Too many times we are on a show field and I hear that a certain car should have a "Dearborn jack" or it must have a coarse thread jack and all of that doesnt add up.
There are certain style jacks for certain years, and there was multiple vendors supplying these.
As for date codes seems they started in 1967 and alot of them have date codes but we all have seen enough examples out there that do not have any date codes.
One general comment. We have plenty of examples where there were multiple suppliers (Henry hated the thought that one vendor could hold his company and production hostage) but in most if not all examples certain suppliers were contracted to supply specific plants and not others. This may have been based on how fast the parts could reach the specific plant due to distance and other variables. We have examples of shocks and firewall pads just to name two. Yes there are times when a shipment (apparently often a single shipment as we're discovering) was routed to a non-typical assembly plant to fill a need but these tend to stand out once you compare build dates on examples they are found on.
Can't imagine that the suppliers of jacks would be treated any different than other suppliers or different practices applied by Ford and their divisions . Think I'll move part of this discussion to a different thread since we have gotten well off the original focus of this thread and the OPs need to find one. ;)
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Bob/Jeff, All good points here. Ill make a few comments:
On the jack date codes I took a quick look at what I wrote (its been 10 years) and can probably be revised. From what I know and understand now the Ausco jacks do not have date codes. If you check on your side and look at all the jacks with the "A" stamping for Ausco they will not have date codes. The other two typically did. So we can say "most" jacks are date coded from 67 onwards, but not all.
The jack manufacturers themselves were all roughly in the Michigan area. From there they would ship the jacks to the different production facilities. What I would say is possible is that for low production (as compared to normal Mustang production) cars like a Shelby assembled in CA they may have had one supplier ship the jacks directly there or supplied for those cars. Maybe why you see one style jack being used.
But for sure as a general rule for Mustang production we cant say Dearborn only used one style, San Jose only used one style, and Metuchen only used one style. Thats just not correct.
Make sense?
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Bob/Jeff, All good points here. Ill make a few comments:
On the jack date codes I took a quick look at what I wrote (its been 10 years) and can probably be revised. From what I know and understand now the Ausco jacks do not have date codes. If you check on your side and look at all the jacks with the "A" stamping for Ausco they will not have date codes. The other two typically did. So we can say "most" jacks are date coded from 67 onwards, but not all.
The jack manufacturers themselves were all roughly in the Michigan area. From there they would ship the jacks to the different production facilities. What I would say is possible is that for low production (as compared to normal Mustang production) cars like a Shelby assembled in CA they may have had one supplier ship the jacks directly there or supplied for those cars. Maybe why you see one style jack being used.
But for sure as a general rule for Mustang production we cant say Dearborn only used one style, San Jose only used one style, and Metuchen only used one style. Thats just not correct.
Make sense?
I like to use the word "typical" when talking about the different assemblyline jacks . That leaves room for the not so typical . Case in point your above statement "Maybe why you see one style jack being used." could be better phrased as "Maybe why you see one predominate style being used" . That word "predominate" leaves room for the other less common styles that are seen used. I have learned from others to also try and stay away from "all" , "always" and "only" unless it is necessary .
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Typing while Bob was posting ::)
...........But for sure as a general rule for Mustang production we cant say Dearborn only used one style, San Jose only used one style, and Metuchen only used one style. Thats just not correct.
Make sense?
Depends on how you phrase the statement. We can argue about the application of "never" "only" "always" and I think we will both agree most of use leave those words out of responses at the same time we often make, what could be understood as basically the same comment by using the word "where". But enough of the English language discussion. Not to be argumentative and just continuing a respectful discussion, we be rarely can say "only" but in maybe a few processes or parts since there is always a possible variation or mistake even.
Based on research we can say typically, usually, the vast majority of the time and so on when we discuss these details or when giving guidance to people that don't have a specific part and are looking for the best and most complete information. If we find that one plant used or was supplied by than more than one provider for jacks, lets see when those different products were used on the line and in turn we should be able to identify batches and runs so that we can better help and guide others to a better and hopefully right choice.
We have to be able and or willing to collect multiple data points from unrestored, original cars, compare them to others, while considering when they were completed to look for patterns if one possibly appears. We should by now accept and understand that suppliers didn't ship parts individually one at a time so there will be supporting evidence from other cars built the same day or week of an anomaly. We all need to let the evidence guide us rather than letting us try and bend it to our current understanding alone. NOT suggesting that this is what anyone here is doing. Just a general statement.
This might be a good subject to start some plant by plant surveys to see what we can collect as we have with many other subject/parts, to see what additional understanding can be discovered.
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The problem I see with a survey is that you may not get the most accurate information given many jacks have a high tendency of being replaced and the tendency of owners to be very protective of the integrity of their cars and insist that "it must be original because it was with the car and my car is all original".
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Ok I will work on updating the article on the jacks here at some point soon. Probably can do a related article on jack handles as well.
But going back to my original statement do we all agree that there is no such thing as a "NJ only" jack? That was the point I was trying to make from the start and want to focus on that idea.
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Ok I will work on updating the article on the jacks here at some point soon. Probably can do a related article on jack handles as well.
But going back to my original statement do we all agree that there is no such thing as a "NJ only" jack? That was the point I was trying to make from the start and want to focus on that idea.
I agree in concept as long as it is used in proper context. If that was a stand alone statement for example the take away could be that there were no prevalent jacks used at NJ and Dearborn which for what ever reason seems to be the case.