ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1969 - 70 Shelby => Topic started by: cob428 on July 10, 2020, 12:07:02 PM
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The more I read on spindles the more confused I become. On the Left side I have a KKX spindle, on the right side I have C80A. hen I see Bob Perkins has a C9ZZ Listed for the right side> trying to gt back to Concours and not sure what I should be using?
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I believe you have what is referred to as “big suspension” with the larger F series tires.
There were two different spindles used the KKX and the DOZA B. The C8OA spindle would not be correct for a big suspension car.
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Peter,
Can they be mixed for example a KKX and a DOZA or would they both be the same?
Would the one from Bob Perkins be correct for my car?
Thanks Pete
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I will have to say I do not know. Im sure someone will be along shortly that does😉
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The more I read on spindles the more confused I become. On the Left side I have a KKX spindle, on the right side I have C80A. hen I see Bob Perkins has a C9ZZ Listed for the right side> trying to gt back to Concours and not sure what I should be using?
The C8OA is not for the larger suspension .It was used on 69 Shelby's prior to the big suspension being introduced. It has smaller bearings and also designed for the smaller tie rod ends. The number you list for BP'S spindle is the Ford part number not to be confused with the engineering number which is physically on the spindle.The one BP has is for a Boss 302 or Shelby. As I mentioned to you in a PM some Boss 302 and 69/70 Shelby's cars came from the factory with a KKX cut down Boss spindle on one side and the DOZA-B on the other side. Not all but some. It was apparently a attempt to use up what they had first. As they are the same dimensions no harm no foul.
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thanks Bob, sorry never got the PM
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The C8OA is not for the larger suspension .It was used on 69 Shelby's prior to the big suspension being introduced. It has smaller bearings and also designed for the smaller tie rod ends. The number you list for BP'S spindle is the Ford part number not to be confused with the engineering number which is physically on the spindle.The one BP has is for a Boss 302 or Shelby. As I mentioned to you in a PM some Boss 302 and 69/70 Shelby's cars came from the factory with a KKX cut down Boss spindle on one side and the DOZA-B on the other side. Not all but some. It was apparently a attempt to use up what they had first. As they are the same dimensions no harm no foul.
Are there any pics to illustrate the difference between the KKX and the other big spindle?
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Just for informational purposes, my April 14 car has the KKX spindles on both sides.
http://www.redshost.com/gt350/imgpages/image576.html
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Are there any pics to illustrate the difference between the KKX and the other big spindle?
Not sure if there is a difference other than the markings between the early KKX and the "Big suspension" D0 versions that quickly followed
As for the difference between the regular and big suspension:
Other than the castings, a section of bailing wire wrapped around the upper part of the spindle as a quick identification for the line workers and paint marking differences it comes down the the difference in measurements of the bearing races - not something that would stand out if looking at one IMHO. There is a document posted in the 69 Library section concerning some screw ups on the line when the new suspension option was released concerning a group of cars where the parts (wrong rotors on the wrong spindles and so on)
Titled 69 Disc Brake Spindle and/or Hub and Rotor Mismatch Issue
Believe there are some close ups in the thread where I dissassembled the front suspension of my early 69 Boss did a little cleaning and reinstalled. Car has about 30K miles on it
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(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/14/6-230620182850.jpeg)
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(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/14/6-230620182850.jpeg)
I think a comparison of the KKX Boss 302/Shelby spindle and the KKX Boss 429 spindle is needed. I don't have any profile pictures of Boss 429 spindles to compare to. Ed can be challenged like me posting pictures sometimes so hopefully BP will have some to share . Hopefully Ed or BP will explain the difference between the KKX Boss 429 spindles and the KKX Boss 302 /post 3/69 Shelby spindles.
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Here are the spindles
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1
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That looks to be the standard non heavy duty suspension spindle
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Drivers side,
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Your tie rods will have the smaller shaft on the C8 side too.
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1
The spindle was most likely changed out when the rotor needed to be replaced. The correct Boss 302/post 3/69 Shelby rotor has always been difficult to find. Most mechanics if they cant find the correct rotor would simply change out the spindle . Seldom if ever do they think outside box and take the rotor hat off of a 70 rotor assembly and transfer it to the original hub to solve the problem.
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Thats my next project, pull the tie rods off to check and see what is going on. I do know 3 of the 4 have zerks so they have been changed , the inner drivers side appears to be original. Is there an easy way to tell?
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Thats my next project, pull the tie rods off to check and see what is going on. I do know 3 of the 4 have zerks so they have been changed , the inner drivers side appears to be original. Is there an easy way to tell?
First off the tie rods will not have grease zerts. You should check out the article Marcus did .The link is in the library.The nut size is larger on the big suspension tie rods compared to the small suspension. The tie rod shaft is larger. So the castle nut will be larger too holding the tie rod secure .That is a easy tell from the underside. On a big suspension the drag link will be different in that it accepts the larger tie rod shaft. In your case the outer tie rod on the side with the C8 spindle will have had to be changed to the smaller version so that it will fit the smaller suspension C8 spindle.
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I have heard of another 69 big suspension Shelby that had same spindles that u have and they have F-60-15 bigger bearing rotors I was told. Ford may have used some c8oa spindles that were machined for the F-60-15 boss 302 Shelby rotors. The kkx boss 429 spindles were longer that the double wire wrapped ID boss 302 Shelby spindles. The spindles rotors tie rods drag link strut rods upper a arms were all different beefed up parts to work with the new F-60-15 tires. Check the tierod stud and nut hole and the bearing size on the c8oa spindles first compared to the kkx spindle on your other side first to see exactly what u have and compare both rotors to see if they match the same.
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cob428 did the c8oa spindle have the double wire wrap on it?
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There is a wire wrap on it but I haven't pulled it apart yet.
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I'd like to see a pic of the wire wrap.
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I'd like to see a pic of the wire wrap.
;)
Recently in reply #1
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=22811.msg142956#msg142956 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=22811.msg142956#msg142956)
From the past
My Car Reply #3
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=6536.0 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=6536.0)
Reply #17
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=22256.msg141261#msg141261 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=22256.msg141261#msg141261)
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Ok, guilty of not seeing any of those posts!
Sometimes I start viewing a few posts in the shop and then return inside. The forum thinks I've read the post, when I haven't.
That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!
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Ok both spindles have 2 wire wraps on them , the C80A spindle (passenger side) has a build date of 9D21, the KKX spindle has a build date of 8J24 took both rotors off and bearings out, they are exactly the same. The inside drivers side tie rod is original and fits in both spindles without any issues. Did they make a big spindled C80A spindle?
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............... Did they make a big spindled C80A spindle?
That has not been the understanding for years but with a number of discussions going on currently online and off on this and another site there appears to be some new understandings forming (from my observations).
Are the dates you posted from the cars the spindles came off of? Just trying to understand the context
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Ok both spindles have 2 wire wraps on them , the C80A spindle (passenger side) has a build date of 9D21, the KKX spindle has a build date of 8J24 took both rotors off and bearings out, they are exactly the same. The inside drivers side tie rod is original and fits in both spindles without any issues. Did they make a big spindled C80A spindle?
Re read reply #19 and follow his directions. In a nutshell if the bearings are the same and it has the larger same size hole for the tie rod like your other side then you may have a match.
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I have some unmachined spindles out of KK plant and I think for (at that time anyway) ford machined kkx, doza-b or c8oa what ever they had cast and machined them according to the order of bearing size to fit rotors. I have seen many 69 big suspension shelbys with mismatched ID on the spindles but they always have the double wire wrapped around top of them to ID them AND I am not talking about the 2 safety wires going thru the caliper mounting bracket bolt hollow holes that tie it to the spindles as the wire I am talking about serves no purpose but to ID spindle on assembly line.
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............................ AND I am not talking about the 2 safety wires going thru the caliper mounting bracket bolt hollow holes that tie it to the spindles as the wire I am talking about serves no purpose but to ID spindle on assembly line.
69 Boss/HD spindle identifier
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/Boss%20details/9F02G188388/9F02G188388spindlewire_zps99a2f7c8.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/Boss%20details/9F02G188388/9F02G188388spindlewire_zps99a2f7c8.jpg.html)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/Boss%20details/9F02G188388/9F02G188388dsspindlefinish_zps1befcc74.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/Boss%20details/9F02G188388/9F02G188388dsspindlefinish_zps1befcc74.jpg.html)
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We have a Shelby in shop now with same pair of spindles that cob428 has and both cars are built same week. Cob428 did an older resto years ago and may have removed the double wire wrap (like I did on a car 20 years ago thinking it served no purpose until I started documenting the wire ID wrap on big suspension spindles). The car in shop now was partially restored back in the 80s and probly restorer removed the wire wraps also. So we now know we can document some c8oa spindles were machined for big suspension rotors.
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We have a Shelby in shop now with same pair of spindles that cob428 has and both cars are built same week. Cob428 did an older resto years ago and may have removed the double wire wrap (like I did on a car 20 years ago thinking it served no purpose until I started documenting the wire ID wrap on big suspension spindles). The car in shop now was partially restored back in the 80s and probly restorer removed the wire wraps also. So we now know we can document some c8oa spindles were machined for big suspension rotors.
Not ever seeing any that I was aware of were the special C8OA spindles also machined for the larger diameter big suspension tie rod ends?
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I have had request for odd 69 spindles because I think more cars had remachined c8oa spindles on rh side without knowing that since most guys are only looking kkx and doza spindles so I put a post on B0SS 302 site since 69 b2s were built on same Dearborn assembly line as the 69 shelbys. Just got photo of a rh wire wrapped c8oa spindle with the wire still attached on early june built 69 b9 and it has kkx on lh side so that's 3 69 cars now documented with that odd spindle combo built early june 69.
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I have had request for odd 69 spindles because I think more cars had remachined c8oa spindles on rh side without knowing that since most guys are only looking kkx and doza spindles so I put a post on B0SS 302 site since 69 b2s were built on same Dearborn assembly line as the 69 shelbys. Just got photo of a rh wire wrapped c8oa spindle with the wire still attached on early june built 69 b9 and it has kkx on lh side so that's 3 69 cars now documented with that odd spindle combo built early june 69.
Were the special C8OA spindles also machined for the larger diameter big suspension tie rod ends?Did you forget to answer my question?
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Just an FYI, item of possible interest
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1969-Boss-302-Shelby-Spindles-and-Disc-Brake-Rotors-C9ZZ-1102-A-Super-Rare/324146686232?hash=item4b78a5e918:g:T1UAAOSwA4dWNmnQ
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Just an FYI, item of possible interest
For the record the service replacements in the ad show the D0ZA-3107-C casting. One has a wire wrapped loosely around the up right and the other lacks the wire
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To answer your ? mr gaines Yes of course the c8oa spindles (along with the doza and kkx spindles) when machined from blanks had the tierod hole machined for bigger( dodz ) 69 boss Shelby big suspension tie rod stud holes along with the machined area of the bearing shaft stud to accept the new special f-60-15 rotors. The tierod hole is tapered when machined and is bigger diameter hole on top and bottom of spindle hole and that's why the new (dodz) tierods have a special grease boot (dodz) because the hole diameter in grease boot is bigger to accept the new bigger diameter tierod stud that also has a bigger size castle nut.
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To answer your ? mr gaines Yes of course the c8oa spindles (along with the doza and kkx spindles) when machined from blanks had the tierod hole machined for bigger( dodz ) 69 boss Shelby big suspension tie rod stud holes along with the machined area of the bearing shaft stud to accept the new special f-60-15 rotors. The tierod hole is tapered when machined and is bigger diameter hole on top and bottom of spindle hole and that's why the new (dodz) tierods have a special grease boot (dodz) because the hole diameter in grease boot is bigger to accept the new bigger diameter tierod stud that also has a bigger size castle nut.
That was my assumption but not ever seeing a C8OA marked modified spindle before it was best to get confirmation from someone who had. It is easy to tell the larger tie rods when they have to be used because of the larger castle (compared to smaller suspension tie rod nut) nut needed like I refereed to in reply #27.