ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1969 Mustang => Topic started by: 13Outlaw on March 24, 2015, 07:04:50 PM
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I an wanting to redo my heater box while I have it out of the car, but all the research I have found shows it to be a smooth flat black(I may mention I have a slight color vision issue so the military tells me) however, mine is kind of a rough texture. Can anyone verify what a Jan built 69 should have? Thanks in advance!
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You didn't provide if you have a AC/heater box or just a heater but in any case if its the molded section your describing that was not painted originally and just painting it will leave you with a non-factory mono tone finish. Not what your looking for.
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Ok, it is a non a/c car. Thanks
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Case will have the look of an original radiator shroud if you've ever seen one of those. Molded plastic (black to dark gray with fibers somewhat visible through the surface.
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You are the man, that's what mine has. I'll wash it up an leave it be. Thanks again!
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130Outlaw,
Did you have to remove the lower metal dash or loosen it to remove the non/ac 69 heater box? I need to remove mine as well, but have been procrastinating due to having a back problem. I assume the dash pad, the clock bezel, and glove box need removed.
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Did you have to remove the lower metal dash or loosen it to remove the non/ac 69 heater box? I need to remove mine as well, but have been procrastinating due to having a back problem. I assume the dash pad, the clock bezel, and glove box need removed.
Why are you removing it? To replace the core?
Did it recently on my Boss and didn't have to remove the dash pad, clock or passenger side panel...... Pulled the glove box liner though removing the door allows for better access ;)
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Why are you removing it? To replace the core?
Yes, I need to replace the heater core. I assumed I needed to remove the heater box entirely. I believe that is what the shop manual recommends, but it shows the instructions for an a/c car. Perhaps I don't need to drop the entire box for a non a/c car.
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Yes, I need to replace the heater core. I assumed I needed to remove the heater box entirely. This is easy to do on a non A/C compared to one with A/C. I believe that is what the shop manual recommends, but it shows the instructions for an a/c car. Perhaps I don't need to drop the entire box for a non a/c car.
I think it will be easier in the long run to remove the entire box. you don't have to remove the clock or the dash pad .Just remove the glovebox liner as Jeff suggested. This would be a good time to R+R the entire housing. The foam gaskets have typically dissolved and need replaced plus a good time to repaint and lubricate doors etc. Hopefully the outside is not painted black like so many past owners do. If it has been painted a lacquer bath is in order (along with appropriate precautions).If lucky and not painted , clean outside thoroughly . Some will fog a coat of clear to make the fiberglass case surface pop but you don't want too much as to appear cleared. As much as I know you are doing with your car Bob, if you don't detail the box now you will wish you had later IMHO. Best of luck with project how ever you proceed.
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With the liner out of the way you get a pretty good look at what's involved. Brian
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I think it will be easier in the long run to remove the entire box. ..........
Hard to get to some of the clips (tried it) with the back half still attached to the firewall.
But in a non-concours - down and dirty way you could leave the passenger ends ones off
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Hard to get to some of the clips (tried it) with the back half still attached to the firewall.
I learned this in 1967 on a 66 heater box. Even more of a problem is the box gets damaged so the clips pop off. Ever hear of duct tape (concours grade of course)?
Jim
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If I remove the entire heater box (non a/c), will there be enough room to remove it without loosening/removing the large metal lower dash that is painted black? I seem to recall trying to remove a heater box once and found out once it was loose that there was no way it would clear the lower dash. I ended up bolting it back up and I never could get it out. I can't remember, but I think it was a 70 Mach 1 without a/c, which may be the same as my 69 without a/c.
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West Coast Classic Cougars has a good video on Heater Core replacement, and restoring / refurbishing your heater box:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SubvM762z0g
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West Coast Classic Cougars has a good video on Heater Core replacement, and restoring / refurbishing your heater box:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SubvM762z0g
Thanks. That shows that you do need to remove the lower dash, but that was for an a/c car with a larger heater box. My car is a non a/c car so I am wondering if I can leave the lower dash installed or not.
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http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.vintage-mustang.com%2Fvintage-mustang-forum%2F593767-remove-1969-heater-box.html&ei=UmAYVY6BOdTYoATy8oA4&usg=AFQjCNHizf526vwWyZFwlWhcB6UlnYKKcQ
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I apologize for not responding until now. I am replacing the tq boxes etc.
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I presently have mine out of my car and am rebuilding it.
(http://www.mustangphotos.com/photopost/data/510/DSCN8447.JPG)
(http://www.mustangphotos.com/photopost/data/510/DSCN8535.JPG)
(http://www.mustangphotos.com/photopost/data/510/DSCN9031.JPG)
(http://www.mustangphotos.com/photopost/data/510/DSCN9033.JPG)
(http://www.mustangphotos.com/photopost/data/510/DSCN9034.JPG)
A question I have is what type of sealer is used on the case?
I found a hard type sealer that was used where the two black case halves meet. I was able to chip it out with a screw driver.
There is also a sealer used where the metal housing part was riveted to the box and also where the blower motor plate attaches to the metal housing. It was still gummy.
Thanks,
Dale.
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Dale, nice work I will be doing the same thing, hopefully someone will chime in and have some insight on what to use.
Thanks
Shane
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Shane,
I got the heater box done and installed over the weekend.
I used screws to put the case back together - I was afraid rivets might damage the fiberglass.
After I glued the seals on I couldn't get the door housing to fit into the case.
It was a very tight fit. I had to remove the seal on the edge where the door housing screws to the case. The seal was causing the door housing to sit too high.
I also had to remove one of the triangle piece that fit on the ends. The fit was so tight it was rolling seal up.
The seals in the kit I bought are not like the originals. The original triangle seals were still on the door housing when I removed it. It was a very soft open gray type foam. The seals seal are a lot stiffer.
My case was warped at some spots to maybe that is what caused the problems
Dale.
(http://www.mustangphotos.com/photopost/data/500/DSCN8606.JPG)
(http://www.mustangphotos.com/photopost/data/500/DSCN9082.JPG)
(http://www.mustangphotos.com/photopost/data/500/DSCN9085.JPG)
(http://www.mustangphotos.com/photopost/data/500/DSCN9081.JPG)
(http://www.mustangphotos.com/photopost/data/500/DSCN9088.JPG)
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Dale,
That looks real nice! Two questions, did you repaint the case? Did you buy new metal for the inside or just sand and paint it? Mine is pretty thin and had some rust. If you did buy new metal, where did you get it? Thanks!
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Shane,
I did not paint the case.
I only painted the door assembly and heater core holder.
I also painted the blower motor & cage and the motor mounting plate.
I reused the door assembly and heater core holder.
My door assembly need work. I blasted the door assembly then had the holes filled with filler.
I do not know if the door assembly is available?
(http://www.mustangphotos.com/photopost/data/500/DSCN8556.JPG)
I never got a response on what sealer to use and when I asked around locally everybody had a different opinion.
I ended up just using black RTV - so if I had to take it apart again I could.
I only used sealer on the big metal housing that attaches to the case and where the motor plate bolts to the metal housing.
I did not use any sealer where the case halves fit together.
Hope this helps.
Dale.
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I do not know if the door assembly is available?
(http://www.mustangphotos.com/photopost/data/500/DSCN8556.JPG)
That control assembly looks like the same one used on 64 thru 68 (non-air conditioning) heater boxes. I'll let others confirm. If so, find a donor.
As to the door, are you referring to the above, or the door that allows air into the passenger's area?
I do like the RTV fix you used, whatever it takes.
Jim
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That control assembly looks like the same one used on 64 thru 68 (non-air conditioning) heater boxes. I'll let others confirm. If so, find a donor.
As to the door, are you referring to the above, or the door that allows air into the passenger's area?
I do like the RTV fix you used, whatever it takes.
Jim
The door assembly picture I posted is for the Temp Control (Cool - Warm).
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I did a quick review and can't seem to find what year car that heater is used for. I did check Ford Car Parts and the item is called "Valve, Heater Temperature Control" by Ford, is common for 64 thru 68 Mustangs, p/n C0DZ-18A545-B.
Jim
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Dale and Jim, thanks for the info. Dale the pics are a big help, I'll be doing the same as you and repairing them.
Shane
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Dale, quick question, I am thinking I can get away with not taking the large metal piece off of mine. Any input that would make me want to reconsider? Not that I want to cut corners, just not sure I see the need? Thanks again!
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Dale, quick question, I am thinking I can get away with not taking the large metal piece off of mine. Any input that would make me want to reconsider? Not that I want to cut corners, just not sure I see the need? Thanks again!
How does your Heat / Defrost lever work?
Mine was bent and very hard to move.
I needed to trim a little bit of the rubber seal that is attached to the Heat / Defroster door and my case was warp a little that area.
No way to get to the door out unless you remove the metal housing.
By the way around last Christmas time I paid a visit to the Mustang Shop in my area they had one of the repo 1969 Heater Boxes in stock.
The case is a black plastic - not fiberglass.
I checked it out and couldn't move the Heat / Defrost lever. I had both hands on the lever and couldn't not move it.
We looked to make sure wasn't any shipping foam or something stopping the door from moving, but there wasn't. I asked the counter person and they didn't know why it wouldn't move. I noticed there was a name on the box - so I think this was a return.
Dale.
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Ok makes sense.. I didn't drive mine much before I started restoring the car, but my last 69 was hard to move. I remember this one being easier, but when it's out on the floor it is stiff.. So looks like I need to, thanks for the input!
Shane
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Do you remember what screws you used instead of the rivets to reassemble the box?
They were #8 or #10 - can't remember exactly which one it was.
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Are the wires on the motor available? One of mine is split and frayed at the rubber grommet.
Thanks,
John
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Virginia Mustang
http://www.virginiaclassicmustang.com/Search.aspx?k=heater+motor+wiring
(Don't see 69-70 here though)
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I got mine at NPD
https://www.npdlink.com/store/products/repair_pigtail_heater_motor_wire-175772-1.html
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Are the wires on the motor available? One of mine is split and frayed at the rubber grommet.
Did you happen to read the article in the library?
You'll find it in any of the 65-68 sections (including the Shelby one also) under
- Heater Motor Feed Cable- Repairing - Part I
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A few things I'd like to mention/ask: (this topic being adapted for use on my 67 with Select-Aire)
1.) I believe the sealer used between the two halves of the case was black strip-caulk (like 3M sells). Unless otherwise suggested NOT to use this, my plan was to roll out a very thin strip and level it off in the groove of the one side of the case.
2.) I am also ready to glue my new foam onto the internal doors (~the light grey ones). Also ready to attach/reattach the heater core and evaporator seals/gaskets (black ones). I could use suggestions for a good adhesive that will not react to the foam in the kit I have. I am thinking 3M spray for the grey foam on the doors and maybe "The Right Stuff" by Permatex on the black foam around the heater core and evaporator.
3.) If the case halves looks reasonably clean, should I avoid "clear coating" them if at all possible? (keep in mind the 67-68 AC case is visable under the dash/glovebox area so I want this to look sharp)
Any other good idea before I go together?
The internal doors, shafts, hardware & internal plates have all been Evaporust cleaned, then I use steel wool on the plates & doors. (everything looks very nice so far ;) ) The (12) clips which hold the two halves of the case together have also been stripped of rust and re-dipped in black paint (similar to original ~obviously there was very little care given to the original painting process used on these clips)
I have just a little more rust removal on the collar that joints the AC/Heater case together to the separate blower box (plan is to run again through the Evaporust, then Boeshield T-9 the bare metal collar), still need to repaint the fresh air and recirculation grille inlets so this all goes together by this weekend.
All previous help here appreciated. For me, it is very easy to get the "functional" portion right...I am focussing on input needed to duplicate Concours detailing.
Thanks in advance.
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A few things I'd like to mention/ask: (this topic being adapted for use on my 67 with Select-Aire)
1.) I believe the sealer used between the two halves of the case was black strip-caulk (like 3M sells). Unless otherwise suggested NOT to use this, my plan was to roll out a very thin strip and level it off in the groove of the one side of the case.
What I've used
2.) I am also ready to glue my new foam onto the internal doors ...............
Test first. Have found some of these thin open foam sheets will desolve quickly using the wrong type or too much adhesive. Happens fast with some thin sheets - Poof!!!
3.) If the case halves looks reasonably clean, should I avoid "clear coating" them if at all possible? (keep in mind the 67-68 AC case is visable under the dash/glovebox area so I want this to look sharp)
Any other good idea before I go together?
If the case is very nice - grain visible, no repairs, smooth flat exterior surface I thing I would not use a clear. On the back side I would test to see what Back to Black will produced when applied. Can restore the deeper, consistent finish on plastic pieces (used it on console bodies and other plastic items around the car. May require (depending on how the car is stored and local condition, reapplying once a year or before an important show to the visible area.
I would at least give it a try. There are a number of others here that have done some nice examples of the 65-68 non-AC heater housing. Their threads might mention what they used or hopefully this will respond here.
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OK....Cross my fingers & SHOOT it!!!
The "gasket" or "foam" kit I have does NOT have anything for the heater core but is complete on everything else (except adhesives or other sealants).
For the heater core, I removed, & cleaned the 2 side seal & end seals. Using "The Right Suff" (trademark name by Permatex), I secured them within a clamping fixture onto a new copper/brass heater core. I had a NOS C9 heater core but the end seals were not exactly the same (heater core is the same).
For the installation of the foam (silver in color) onto the doors, I used 3M Super 77 Multipurpose Adhesive, since it claims will work on foam. I masked off areas of the door where the foam did not cover, sprayed a light coat onto a wiped-down-clean, rust-free doors. (cleaned using lacquer thinner & rag), light coat of spray on the door and a very light spray on the attaching surface of the foam. It stuck down VERY well. I hope it all stays.
The top half of my case, after removing all rust & repainting all items originally painted, (all masked in place, I did not remove any of the factory rivets) I cleaned good as I could with Simple Green, avoiding the paper tag & "8 CYL" ink stamping. I masked those off with a reversed tape-over-tape & duct tape to keep it water tight during this step. Afterwards, I used some WD-40 sprayed onto a rag & wiped down the unpainted fiberglass case. This looks very good so I will do the same steps to the lower case too.
(not liking this particular task...much [corrosion] damage from rodent urine)
Something else I noticed while taking this all apart, where the AC/Heater fresh air inlet to the cowl connected, there was a rather large glop (about 1 inch wide) of sealant (caulking) towards the left of the opening that looks like the cowl must have been leaking either at the factory or possibly an early service fix. You can see the outline of the glop in the photo attached. This might explain a bit of why there was so much more rust on the inside of the passengers floor than anywhere else on the floorpan. It looks like the glop forced any leakage to behind the cowl insulation and down under the carpeting. A real nice hack-job "FIX"...must have been before Duck Tape ;)
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The foam end caps are reproduced by Scott Drake. Two different part numbers, one set for 'with A/C', the other without.
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Discussion of 67-70 AC/Heater vacuum pod finish was split off and is posted here
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=15897.0 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=15897.0)