ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1966 Shelby => Topic started by: dan green on September 26, 2011, 04:35:50 PM
-
I am getting ready to start the paint work on 6S455. The car has the original hood with steel support frame and fiberglass skin.
I believe the underside was semi gloss black with body color (white) over spray.
Is this correct?
-
I am getting ready to start the paint work on 6S455. The car has the original hood with steel support frame and fiberglass skin.
I believe the underside was semi gloss black with body color (white) over spray.
Is this correct?
That would be a typical finish although there are examples of body color undersides also. Bob
-
I am getting ready to start the paint work on 6S455. The car has the original hood with steel support frame and fiberglass skin.
I believe the underside was semi gloss black with body color (white) over spray.
Is this correct?
+1 and not allot of overspray - just remember not to mask off the edges or underside. Paint the hood and edges and you will be fine ;)
An original example
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/66%20Shelby%20Detals/6SblairsPSengrear.jpg)
-
Gents,
How would the paint job have been on a 1966 Shelby GT-350 in sapphire blue on the carbon fiber hoods? Would it have been just as nice and shiny as the top side? If not, can you describe this process to replicate the concours-correct way please? And would it have had clear coat on the bottom side?
Thank you.
-
Gents,
How would the paint job have been on a 1966 Shelby GT-350 in sapphire blue on the carbon fiber hoods? Would it have been just as nice and shiny as the top side? If not, can you describe this process to replicate the concours-correct way please? And would it have had clear coat on the bottom side?
Thank you.
No carbon fiber hoods on any 65-70 Shelby from the factory. IF painted body color under the hood it most likely would not be as nice because the same time and effort would not have been given. No clear coat used over paint on any 65-70 Shelby from the factory.
-
No carbon fiber hoods on any 65-70 Shelby from the factory. IF painted body color under the hood it most likely would not be as nice because the same time and effort would not have been given. No clear coat used over paint on any 65-70 Shelby from the factory.
Bob,
No clear coat over the paint? How did they protect the paint? So when people are doing a concours restoration paint job, they are not shooting it with clear?
-
Bob,
No clear coat over the paint? How did they protect the paint?
Paint at that time had allot of stuff/chemicals in it that allowed it to last decades not like the 80s-today with the peeling clear coats and such. The paint was allot tougher than the base products today. Allot of areas are limited to water base color layer
For the original paints waxes were added to improve and add a layer of protection
So when people are doing a concours restoration paint job, they are not shooting it with clear?
Many use single stage (paint only over the prep/foundation layers of primers and or sealers) just like originally done to reproduce the look and surface finish. Many of the cars you have surely seen at shows have been sanded and buffed to a mirror finish that some would consider "over restored"
Bottom side of the hood originally on a car like yours (and from the same production period) would have been a semi-gloss (on the lower gloss side) black with body color overspray along the edges and hood scoop opening as shown in a number of the unrestored threads here on the site
-
Paint at that time had allot of stuff/chemicals in it that allowed it to last decades not like the 80s-today with the peeling clear coats and such. The paint was allot tougher than the base products today. Allot of areas are limited to water base color layer
For the original paints waxes were added to improve and add a layer of protection
Many use single stage (paint only over the prep/foundation layers of primers and or sealers) just like originally done to reproduce the look and surface finish. Many of the cars you have surely seen at shows have been sanded and buffed to a mirror finish that some would consider "over restored"
Well my hood is over restored then. I don't know if I like that. darn!
-
Well my hood is over restored then. I don't know if I like that. darn!
Jeff,
Check this picture out. These pieces haven't been cleared yet. Should I leave it as is to give it more of that dull appearance?
-
No carbon fiber hoods on any 65-70 Shelby from the factory. IF painted body color under the hood it most likely would not be as nice because the same time and effort would not have been given. No clear coat used over paint on any 65-70 Shelby from the factory.
I meant to say Fiberglass hood. Good catch!
-
Leaving the clear coat off will not help. The dull finish without the clear doesn't look like the factory paint ether. If you used a base coat clear system on your car then you are locked in .
if you don't clear some of the parts then they will look dramatically different then the parts that were clear coated (rest of chassis and hood?)
-
I wouldn't keep some parts clear and others bare. I would have just sanded the clear off and resprayed the hood with paint.
I guess what I'm trying to determine is the best way to continue forward with this kar's paint job.
-
I wouldn't keep some parts clear and others bare. I would have just sanded the clear off and resprayed the hood with paint.
I guess what I'm trying to determine is the best way to continue forward with this kar's paint job.
I suppose if you are wanting advice you need to describe how the car and parts have been painted or are some painted like in the pictures and others not. With out input we are left to speculation that the rest of the car is painted and it is just the small parts that are left to do. Without a clear understanding of where you are in the process it is hard to make recommendations. With all of your previous nuance detailed questions on other parts of the car I for one am a little surprised that this question on a major part of the car has not come up before now.
-
I suppose if you are wanting advice you need to describe how the car and parts have been painted or are some painted like in the pictures and others not. With out input we are left to speculation that the rest of the car is painted and it is just the small parts that are left to do. Without a clear understanding of where you are in the process it is hard to make recommendations. With all of your previous nuance detailed questions on other parts of the car I for one am a little surprised that this question on a major part of the car has not come up before now.
Don't let anything surprise you Bob. The sharing of ideas can lead others down a different path. Surprises are what you get in the restoration world and with newbies like myself who are still doing research too. I've had lots of surprises but I just keep working through them to get it right. :)
Back to the paint question: The paint guide in the library doesn't mention under hood paint. I also know that Carroll Shelby replaced factory Ford metal hoods with fiberglass hoods so I wanted to know how the underside of the hood would have been painted. With Jeff's comment about "over restoring" that led me on another path to get the paint correct and not appear over-restored. Therefore I am asking what would the experts do to get this paint right?
Exterior is being prepped with light gray primer. My painter would paint the sapphire blue with a base coat / clear coat application. He sprayed about 4 applications of base coat to get full coverage. He would wet sand when needed.
-
Don't let anything surprise you Bob. The sharing of ideas can lead others down a different path. Surprises are what you get in the restoration world and with newbies like myself who are still doing research too. I've had lots of surprises but I just keep working through them to get it right. :)
Back to the paint question: The paint guide in the library doesn't mention under hood paint. I also know that Carroll Shelby replaced factory Ford metal hoods with fiberglass hoods so I wanted to know how the underside of the hood would have been painted. With Jeff's comment about "over restoring" that led me on another path to get the paint correct and not appear over-restored. Therefore I am asking what would the experts do to get this paint right?
Exterior is being prepped with light gray primer. My painter would paint the sapphire blue with a base coat / clear coat application. He sprayed about 4 applications of base coat to get full coverage. He would wet sand when needed.
The all metal 66 Shelby hoods typically had body color underneath. The fiberglass hoods with steel inner structure were typically painted semigloss black underneath probably from the supplier. The top side was painted and what body color overspray would extend underneath when the edges were painted. First off I don't know the ability level of your painter. With that said single stage is what concours restorers use to replicate the factory paint job. Unfortunately you are painting a metallic color which is very tricky to paint under normal conditions so it doesn't look splotchy. With single stage that issue is multiplied. If your painter doesn't paint single stage typically expect problems if you shoot the metallic paint. The orange peel is what the concours crowd is looking for. Some painters have been able to manipulate the base coat clear coat systems to also get convincing factory type orange peel that is consistent over the entire paint job. I would suggest sticking with the base coat clear given the color . Regardless of if you are going for orange peel or a slick paint job given the color the base coat clear coat will give the least amount of headaches IMO. Keep in mind that if you went with the single stage most painters would want to strip all of the base coat off for a reliable finish and also to maintain a product warranty from most paint system companies. The labor to do that would be substantial at this point . Just my opinion others my think differently.
-
The all metal 66 Shelby hoods typically had body color underneath. The fiberglass hoods with steel inner structure were typically painted semigloss black underneath probably from the supplier. The top side was painted and what body color overspray would extend underneath when the edges were painted. First off I don't know the ability level of your painter. With that said single stage is what concours restorers use to replicate the factory paint job. Unfortunately you are painting a metallic color which is very tricky to paint under normal conditions so it doesn't look splotchy. With single stage that issue is multiplied. If your painter doesn't paint single stage typically expect problems if you shoot the metallic paint. The orange peel is what the concours crowd is looking for. Some painters have been able to manipulate the base coat clear coat systems to also get convincing factory type orange peel that is consistent over the entire paint job. I would suggest sticking with the base coat clear given the color . Regardless of if you are going for orange peel or a slick paint job given the color the base coat clear coat will give the least amount of headaches IMO. Keep in mind that if you went with the single stage most painters would want to strip all of the base coat off for a reliable finish and also to maintain a product warranty from most paint system companies. The labor to do that would be substantial at this point . Just my opinion others my think differently.
great feedback sir! Thank you.
-
Back to the paint question: The paint guide in the library doesn't mention under hood paint. I also know that Carroll Shelby replaced factory Ford metal hoods with fiberglass hoods so I wanted to know how the underside of the hood would have been painted.
The Guide is for the undercarriage, though I got a little out of bounds in a few places since things in one area of the car affect others. Doing all the paint details in one article was more than I wanted to do and the finished size would have created uploading and storage issues
With Jeff's comment about "over restoring" that led me on another path to get the paint correct and not appear over-restored. Therefore I am asking what would the experts do to get this paint right?
Along with the discussion of the base coat the stripes would be applied like originally - once the car was fully assembled. Makes it allot easier to obtain IMHO the faded edges in some areas, oversprays and blow outs in other area as found on original cars and provide the look of sprayed on the car not just on the part.
Have plenty of pictures and there are trends during 66 as to what and how things were masked and sprayed
-
The all metal 66 Shelby hoods typically had body color underneath. The fiberglass hoods with steel inner structure were typically painted semigloss black underneath probably from the supplier. The top side was painted and what body color overspray would extend underneath when the edges were painted. First off I don't know the ability level of your painter. With that said single stage is what concours restorers use to replicate the factory paint job. Unfortunately you are painting a metallic color which is very tricky to paint under normal conditions so it doesn't look splotchy. With single stage that issue is multiplied. If your painter doesn't paint single stage typically expect problems if you shoot the metallic paint. The orange peel is what the concours crowd is looking for. Some painters have been able to manipulate the base coat clear coat systems to also get convincing factory type orange peel that is consistent over the entire paint job. I would suggest sticking with the base coat clear given the color . Regardless of if you are going for orange peel or a slick paint job given the color the base coat clear coat will give the least amount of headaches IMO. Keep in mind that if you went with the single stage most painters would want to strip all of the base coat off for a reliable finish and also to maintain a product warranty from most paint system companies. The labor to do that would be substantial at this point . Just my opinion others my think differently.
Thoughts? To much over spray?
-
Thoughts? To much over spray?
Too little or no black and too much overspray . The underside was blacked out prior to painting the top side. It was probably done at the hood mfg. You will get a certain amount of overspray on the bottom side from painting the edges the hood and scoop opening .There is heavy almost solid body color about 2 inches or so in from the edge fading out to nothing farther in . It depended a lot on the painter.
-
Thoughts? To much over spray?
Before the exterior was applied a base of semi-gloss black would have been applied so the overspray would have been over it.
From what you showed it would be one of the more overspray than I've seen on many examples but would represent the far end of the range of possibilities IMHO. If thinking of copying it on your car I would dial it back a bit
-
any pics of correct hood scoop overspray?
-
any pics of correct hood scoop overspray?
IMHO no one correct but like many things what was in the typical range I think is what your looking for. Also the type of hood and exterior affects how well the overspray will show up or will be noticed
Add to that the reflection from the fenders or cowl when you try and get a picture of the hood on a car like this example. Can't see the ovespray from the reflection from the sun.
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=12159.msg73744#msg73744 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=12159.msg73744#msg73744)
Then you have all the black cars and its not much better - possibly worst on those
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=6025.msg34012#msg34012 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=6025.msg34012#msg34012)
Will try and post some examples tomorrow of some examples after the early cars
-
Before the exterior was applied a base of semi-gloss black would have been applied so the overspray would have been over it.
From what you showed it would be one of the more overspray than I've seen on many examples but would represent the far end of the range of possibilities IMHO. If thinking of copying it on your car I would dial it back a bit
This is my kar. I thought it a bit much overspray too but Not enough to have it corrrected.
-
Here are three pictures of some of the overspray. Difficult to take a picture with the hood on the car out in the light. White seems to provide the best contrast though much of the paint shows up as a misting over greater areas of the underside surfaces
On this example the left hand side of the picture appears a fairly straight sharp edge but that is due to the bend in the sub structure and how the overspray got applied to it
Though I rarely post pictures of restored examples (first two) but in this case felt that best showed the details discussed
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-110518222024.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-110518222038.jpeg)
In the example the green arrow point to a light area that is part of a repair. The other arrows highlight the original overspray
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-110518222053.jpeg)
Hope this helps
If you meant to post a picture in your last post I'm not seeing it
-
This is my kar. I thought it a bit much overspray too but Not enough to have it corrrected.
As we have stated before in other threads restoration is all about choices.
-
As we have stated before in other threads restoration is all about choices.
+1 And will add that if you choose the show the car it's going to be about what the judges think is too much or not enough. ;)
But of course bottom line is its your car, your choose be happy with what ever you choose
-
a green car would have green overspray in the hood scoop area. what was typically found on dealer added stripes?
white overspray onto the green overspray?
i guess it all depended on the attention to masking that each dealership preformed.
any typical pattern seen?
thanks
-
a green car would have green overspray in the hood scoop area. what was typically found on dealer added stripes?
white overspray onto the green overspray?
i guess it all depended on the attention to masking that each dealership preformed.
any typical pattern seen?
If there was overspray (dealer didn't mask well) you might see a limited amount in those areas closest to the location of the stripe. Since the dealer (dealer installed stripe) I would guess that they would take more care and mask off the area better (very limited to no overspray) than the Shelby plant did since they might be taking more care and that it was not in an assembly line sort of process
Most of the time when you see unrestored cars you don't have any idea if the stripes were ordered that way or were added
-
a green car would have green overspray in the hood scoop area. what was typically found on dealer added stripes?
white overspray onto the green overspray?
i guess it all depended on the attention to masking that each dealership preformed.
any typical pattern seen?
thanks
Of course if showing in concours the burden of proof would be on the owner to prove the stripes were applied at the dealer before the car was delivered to the first owner if no stripes were indicated from the factory. A lot of cars did not get factory stripes in 66. The yardstick is how the car was delivered new from the dealer. I only mention this because of all of the original details you are trying to learn for the upcoming SAAC concours.
-
shelby invoice does not list stripes. dealer invoices seem near impossible to obtain.
-
shelby invoice does not list stripes. dealer invoices seem near impossible to obtain.
Stripes are extra charge and would typically be on the invoice. If it was given a pass then would have to do the same for superchargers, Hone overdrives etc. It is all about choices . The owner makes the choice.
-
since a lot of stripes were added by the dealer, how could that be proved? how does one find out how the car was delivered from the DEALER?
-
since a lot of stripes were added by the dealer, how could that be proved? how does one find out how the car was delivered from the DEALER?
:o Good question. Perhaps a clue to the answer to this question and thousands of other such questions about our cars can best be answered here: http://tootsie.com/howmanylick-experiments
-
😂🤪🤣😁
-
since a lot of stripes were added by the dealer, how could that be proved? how does one find out how the car was delivered from the DEALER?
Part of the problem is that LeMans stripes were not always done when the car was sold new but later which calls into question any that records don't indicate were optioned. Sometimes no doubt by a Ford dealer and sometimes not. Sometimes they were added much later sometimes by the dealer but most likely for a variety of reasons more times by the owner at other places besides the dealer.