ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Body, Paint & Sealers => Topic started by: C5ZZ on October 31, 2012, 05:26:19 PM
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Tried the search function without luck,
Have a set of repro door weatherstrips along with a trunk lid weatherstrip to install
on my 65, have read of people having trouble with them staying glued onto the door.
Some say that first you should wipe down both surfaces with laquer thinner
and use 3M yellow w/s adhesive, is this the correct successful way to do it?
Any other tips or better way to do it would be appreciated!
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I use a brushed on adhesive (yellow in color at least to start) Wipe in on the door and the weather strip then stick them together. Stuff is a loot stickier that the 3M and looks IMHO more original than the tube stuff.
Problem is you have to buy in in small amounts if you don't seal the can well the stuff turns to a nasty brown quickly. If you leave the brush that is attached to the lid in the stuff it tends to rust and turn the stuff also. So when I receive the can I split it into a number of small glass jars (baby food does nicely) so that if one turns I don't loose it all and it reduces the rusting possibility
Remember on original applications you should see the glue at least/typically at the corners and turns where the worker normally had trouble following the "line"
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/ConcoursMustang/CaptureG.jpg)
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Wipe down the weatherstrips with a good grease and wax remover, as the weatherstrip is usually coated with a dusty film that inhibits the adhesive.
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In the ' any other tips ' category. When I do the door weatherstrips I do a dry fit first. Attach the WS at the two locations on the door top with the plastic pins provided in the kit. Install the WS in the channel at the door bottom. There should be enough tension on the WS to hold it in the correct locations without glue. Move the WS around, up and down making sure to get a good fit all around. Then I use some masking tape, blue, to mark the door and WS locations all the way around the door. Centerline at the door bottom, usually three marks around the lower radius's and a couple more on the straight aways. When I feel the tension on the WS is about equal all the way around the door and I have enough benchmarks/check points I remove the WS and set it aside. Clean the WS channel area all around the door. I use the 3M product adhesive and have been happy with it. After spreading the adhesive and you are happy with it start your install. I usually put some on the WS as well. I start at the door bottom get the centerline marks lined up and go to town hitting my tape marks, WS & door, right on up to the plastic pin installation. Good luck with this. Long winded enough? Brian
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I use the same glue that Jeff posted the image of. Works great with a small brush. Have to brush the door and also brush the weather-strip. If using repro weather-strip, it is very important, as Randy pointed out, to clean the rubber to get off the release film. This can be done with mineral spirits or lacquer thinner. Another important thing to consider on the repro weather-strip is to take some 120 grit sandpaper and rough up the contact areas of the thicker rubber ends. This helps give the glue a little more bite and stay in place.
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To do a pre-fit of your w'strip, you can also use scotch tape to hold it in place(no glue used yet,just pre-fit). I used the 3M yellow w'strip adhesive. These kind of things just takes patience. If anyone is in a hurry, you better wait until another day to do this.
I purposely made a few little runs on the installation because thats what I uncovered when I took the original w'strip off some years back. Some say, thats what judges like to see. Anyway, I tried to replicate as close to original as possible.
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I use a brushed on adhesive (yellow in color at least to start) Wipe in on the door and the weather strip then stick them together. Stuff is a loot stickier that the 3M and looks IMHO more original than the tube stuff.
Problem is you have to buy in in small amounts if you don't seal the can well the stuff turns to a nasty brown quickly. If you leave the brush that is attached to the lid in the stuff it tends to rust and turn the stuff also. So when I receive the can I split it into a number of small glass jars (baby food does nicely) so that if one turns I don't loose it all and it reduces the rusting possibility
Remember on original applications you should see the glue at least/typically at the corners and turns where the worker normally had trouble following the "line"
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/ConcoursMustang/CaptureG.jpg)
Jeff, where can I purchase this product? I was thinking there was a link to e-bay for it
but don't see it now, any help is appreciated!
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Search 'neoprene rubber contact adhesive" on ebay and you'll find it.
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Search 'neoprene rubber contact adhesive" on ebay and you'll find it.
Thanks Charles, found it.
Would 1/2 pint be enough to do both doors and the trunk
on my 65 fastback or should I get a pint?
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Thanks Charles, found it.
Would 1/2 pint be enough to do both doors and the trunk
on my 65 fastback or should I get a pint?
Believe it would be. Brush some on the surface of the door with the brush and the weatherstrip - the stuff will grab and set quickly - strong stuff
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I use a brushed on adhesive (yellow in color at least to start) Wipe in on the door and the weather strip then stick them together. Stuff is a loot stickier that the 3M and looks IMHO more original than the tube stuff.
Problem is you have to buy in in small amounts if you don't seal the can well the stuff turns to a nasty brown quickly. If you leave the brush that is attached to the lid in the stuff it tends to rust and turn the stuff also. So when I receive the can I split it into a number of small glass jars (baby food does nicely) so that if one turns I don't loose it all and it reduces the rusting possibility
Remember on original applications you should see the glue at least/typically at the corners and turns where the worker normally had trouble following the "line"
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/ConcoursMustang/CaptureG.jpg)
Just to add confirmation to Jeff's post the "trick" is to brush on the contact cement onto both surfaces (rubber weatherstrip AND metal surface). Once the glue(gets sticky) tacks up install the weatherstrip and you will have minimal holding of strip before it sticks hard. You can do a sticky test on another sacrifice surface before hand because some brands tack in a minute or two others 5 minutes. Be sure to pre fit pieces because once it sticks good you will most likely tear weatherstrip trying to remove if a mistake is made. I hope this helps.
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Thanks for the help everyone!
Hope to have the car finished up and drive it over to the Indy show
in August, started on this project 11 years ago!
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I use a brushed on adhesive (yellow in color at least to start) Wipe in on the door and the weather strip then stick them together. Stuff is a loot stickier that the 3M and looks IMHO more original than the tube stuff.
Problem is you have to buy in in small amounts if you don't seal the can well the stuff turns to a nasty brown quickly. If you leave the brush that is attached to the lid in the stuff it tends to rust and turn the stuff also. So when I receive the can I split it into a number of small glass jars (baby food does nicely) so that if one turns I don't loose it all and it reduces the rusting possibility
Remember on original applications you should see the glue at least/typically at the corners and turns where the worker normally had trouble following the "line"
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/ConcoursMustang/CaptureG.jpg)
Jeff,
Is one quart of the neoprene contact adhesive enough to do the door and trunk lid? I don't think this stuff was used on any of the windshield weather stripping, correct?
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Jeff,
Is one quart of the neoprene contact adhesive enough to do the door and trunk lid? I don't think this stuff was used on any of the windshield weather stripping, correct?
A quart is way more than you will use on a whole car and once exposed to air it tends to change color and not have allot f shelf life after opening
Just my experience
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A quart is way more than you will use on a whole car and once exposed to air it tends to change color and not have allot f shelf life after opening
Just my experience
That's a whole lot of baby food jars to use up. ;) Shelf life is maybe a few weeks if you are lucky once exposed to the air for the first time. I imagine that would include transfering to smaller jars as Jeff previously suggested. #7160 is what is on the small baby food jar size can of that brand adhesive I have used . It is more than enough to do a door and trunklid. Most likely enough to do both doors IMO.
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They sell 1/2 pint with a brush on the lid. If you're just doing one car, this should be plenty. Other than door weather-strip and trunk lid seal, this type of glue was used in other areas such as:
-Headliner
-Carpet on bottom of quarters for fastbacks
-Attaching insulation to back of kick panels
-Gluing down the luggage protector in the trunk
-Roof rail weather-strip
I might be missing more, but keeping it to '66 models
BTW, the 3M glue is useless for this type of thing. Another trick is to wipe off the contact surface of the repro weather-strip with some solvent. Also, roughing it up on the contact edges with some 180 sandpaper will help give more bite to the glue. When applying the neoprene adhesive, do about a 12" section at a time
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By the time I have installed the trunk weatherstrip, door weatherstrip, roof insulation, headliner, and beltline molding it generally has used up 3/4 quart of 3M weatherstripping adhesive. If the car has a vinyl top I will use close to 1 1/2 quarts.
A great place to buy quarts of 3M contact adhesive is https://skygeek.com
That's a whole lot of baby food jars to use up. ;) Shelf life is maybe a few weeks if you are lucky once exposed to the air for the first time. I imagine that would include transfering to smaller jars as Jeff previously suggested. #7160 is what is on the small baby food jar size can of that brand adhesive I have used . It is more than enough to do a door and trunklid. Most likely enough to do both doors IMO.
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By the time I have installed the trunk weatherstrip, door weatherstrip, roof insulation, headliner, and beltline molding it generally has used up 3/4 quart of 3M weatherstripping adhesive. If the car has a vinyl top I will use close to 1 1/2 quarts.
I've gotten away from using one product for all and have found using specific products work better for me and reproduce the original products better. Do use 3M for sprayable purposes. Vinyl top, roof insulation and the limited headliner needs. Often just the rattle can 3M for cars without vinyl top
You included beltline molding. Must be a Cougar thing since Mustang just snaps in place and did have any adhesive originally or maybe your using the term to describe something else
Of course what ever works for each of us as long as we reach the same end goal
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The Cougar uses the same C5ZZ beltline molding rubber weatherstrip as a Mustang. It must be glued into place on a Cougar because it has to be stretched in order to not have a big gap at the rear.
I used to use 3M Fastbond 10 but they have apparently discontinued it. 1347 Yellow is the only appropriate 3M product these days that offers the same performance. I have to buy it 5 gallons at a time so I put it in quart cans for convenience when brushing. It is the same type of product that Ford used on the assembly line for door and trunk seals and headliners vinyl tops.
I've gotten away from using one product for all and have found using specific products work better for me and reproduce the original products better. Do use 3M for sprayable purposes. Vinyl top, roof insulation and the limited headliner needs. Often just the rattle can 3M for cars without vinyl top
You included beltline molding. Must be a Cougar thing since Mustang just snaps in place and did have any adhesive originally or maybe your using the term to describe something else
Of course what ever works for each of us as long as we reach the same end goal
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The Cougar uses the same C5ZZ beltline molding rubber weatherstrip as a Mustang. It must be glued into place on a Cougar because it has to be stretched in order to not have a big gap at the rear.
We must be using different terms for different items. On a Mustang shops, web sites and (not sure but believe) Ford uses the term "beltline" as the strips (rubber and/or fuzzies) at the roll-up window openings both on the inside and exterior surface.
65-66 (C5ZZ) version/style grabbed from an EBay ad recently
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/14/6-190820171439.jpeg)
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Apologies I must have had temporary oldtimer's disease. I meant roof rail weatherstripping.
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Apologies I must have had temporary oldtimer's disease. I meant roof rail weatherstripping.
Something we all fall victim to from time to time :) Just need to clarify for others
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Old topic but I just got done installing my door weatherstripping and I'll say using the 3M 8001 adhesive I got from npd was no fun. Being in a tube made it hard to apply without it going everywhere. It was very stringy when you lifted off the tube and it ran down easily since I was installing the weatherstripping on the doors installed on the car. What are the current options for brush on yellow adhesive? I have my rear trunk hood to do but of course that needs to be done off the car and laying flat.
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Old topic but I just got done installing my door weatherstripping and I'll say using the 3M 8001 adhesive I got from npd was no fun. Being in a tube made it hard to apply without it going everywhere. It was very stringy when you lifted off the tube and it ran down easily since I was installing the weatherstripping on the doors installed on the car. What are the current options for brush on yellow adhesive? I have my rear trunk hood to do but of course that needs to be done off the car and laying flat.
I will squeeze adhesive from the tube (if using)into a cup and use a small acid brush or equivalent to apply. You need to apply in a thin layer to BOTH surfaces separately. let the adhesive start to tack up on both surfaces before putting the weatherstrip in place. Different adhesives tack up at different rates. You may want to do a sample on a piece of scrap so you know what to expect. It sticks better this way so you don't typically have to use tape to hold in place except in hard turn radius .
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What's the ole saying? Hindsight is 20-20? I should have done that but didn't. Here are some pictures of my door seals. How bad are they really?
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I am sure it will hold but it does not look like factory.
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Any suggestions to get a sort of factory look? It seems to me the yellow adhesive should not be showing that much between the seal and the door. I think I'm going to live with what I have but could make some tweaks if needed.
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Any suggestions to get a sort of factory look?
A brush, patience and the third or fourth door should do it.
Jim
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So would you suggest I remove these and try again? The weatherstripping isn't overly expensive. I got the Daniel Carpenter version and I could easily get another set. I'm assuming it would be best to start fresh though since the top corners are set, I wonder if I could remove the bulk of the weatherstripping, clean the door and put the weatherstripping back on so it sits more flush in the groove. The outer edge at the bottom didn't sit flat which is why you can see the glue on my case. Should it?
Does anyone have some good pictures of what it should look like they could share when done? I've looked at the unrestored pictures already.
The big question is what adhesive. I don't like the consistency of the 3M stuff in a tube I got from NPD. Though I didn't brush it on it seems to be very stringy like gooey string cheese when you pulled the tube away. I see there is a Herco adhesive mentioned on some past threads and the 3M 10 contact adhesive too. Do these work well but are easy to brush on?
What is the best suggestion in my case with my mess? Thanks for the honest feedback.
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Followup to my own post. I've decided that a redo is in order. As Jim said, doors 3 and 4 will hopefully be better. I've ordered some of the Herco adhesive mentioned on this thread and a new set of weatherstripping.
So I'll just like to see some pictures of a finished job if possible. I'm a bit confused as to how the weatherstripping sits in the groove. Should it be flush on both sides so you can't see any adhesive? I'm guessing using as little as possible adhesive too will help avoid my sloppy first go.
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Followup to my own post. I've decided that a redo is in order. As Jim said, doors 3 and 4 will hopefully be better. I've ordered some of the Herco adhesive mentioned on this thread and a new set of weatherstripping.
So I'll just like to see some pictures of a finished job if possible. I'm a bit confused as to how the weatherstripping sits in the groove. Should it be flush on both sides so you can't see any adhesive? I'm guessing using as little as possible adhesive too will help avoid my sloppy first go.
The door weatherstrip sits in a channel on the bottom of the door. 3M 1347 Yellow contact adhesive is what I would use. The guys in the factory did not have a lot of time to install it so there was extra adhesive visible when they got through.
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So I'll just like to see some pictures of a finished job if possible. I'm a bit confused as to how the weatherstripping sits in the groove. Should it be flush on both sides so you can't see any adhesive? I'm guessing using as little as possible adhesive too will help avoid my sloppy first go.
No it looks like they used a 1/5 brush and did not mind if some showed along the edges and at turns/corners you typically find that there didn't follow the inside corner as the bristles spread out making the turn.
Notice that most of the pictures I've posted of 68 door weatherstrip were focused on the paint pattern on the bottom of the door but do include some details
One such is titled Unrestored - Jan 68 San Jose Fastback Non-Foldown
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Passenger door done. Herco adhesive using acid brushes and quite a bit of patience is the way to go. I'll let you all be the judge.
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Passenger door done. Herco adhesive using acid brushes and quite a bit of patience is the way to go. I'll let you all be the judge.
I hope that you didn't buy a large amount of the Herco adhesive because what ever you haven't used yet will be hardened in the container in a week or so. Once it is exposed to the atmosphere its life span clock starts ticking.
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Thanks Bob, I recall reading that exact thing in another post so I bought 1/3 pint on Amazon. That was the smallest container I could find plus it wasn't cheap... about $19 for that small amount. Some of it oozed out in the package I'm guessing from the heat in travel.
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Thing its been posted earlier in the thread. Buy in small units since as offered it does not have a long shelf life once opened. In addition ones exposed to the air the brush attached to the lid and other parts of the metal can will start rusting even in low humidity areas of the country. I always remove the brush once I open so that it does not rust and sit in the adhesive. Believe this alters the color and look of the adhesive if you use it a second time. Also over time started to, once its open, move the left over adhesive to small glass jars to minimize the amount of air in the container and reduce the contact to metal surfaces. It has helped me.