ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1969 Mustang => Topic started by: Brian Conway on November 10, 2015, 10:50:42 PM
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I would like to get the correct nuts and bolts for the shock tower caps on my early 69 Metuchen car. I don't know what I should be looking for ? Some pictures of an original set up would be great. Thanks, Brian
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Brian - picture of a super original (160K miles!) '69 Grande attached. Nuts don't look special to me (i.e., different than other plants). Sorry the picture isn't higher resolution.
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Well from here, other than the color, what's on my car and what's in your photo example look the same ? In a previous post I was advised; zinc phosphate on the nuts and zinc silver on the bolts. Thank you Jim for the photo. It's a start. Brian
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The carriage bolts are p/n 378535-S2 per the 69 Chassis Manual, and the nuts are 33771-S2, same reference. The nut "may" be either a round top or flat top style (different suppliers?), but look to be grade 5 UBS type in either case. They are shown as phosphate, but may have been zinc plated They are both referenced in the Library Section of this forum under "Mustang Hardware Spreadsheet 69-70 - file MHW69-70AP02.xls. From there, sources may be AMK.
Jim
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Thank you Jim. I did check out the Library and learned a couple things. FIN # 4 is phosphate ? Both numbers referenced refer to the carriage bolts/nuts for the shock tower to cap hold down. The nuts are the same type for the exhaust hangers. A refinish for my 6 lower round top nuts seems like it would work and the carriage bolts are OK ? AMK seems limited to the circled B on most of there bolt heads. That would be for the 2 bolts in the cap top. The ones in my photo are blank. If there are some pictures around that would be helpful to a guy like me. Thanks, Brian
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FIN # 4 is phosphate ?
Finish -S4 is the same as -S2 but it is used for UBS hardware (different strength, different design, too technical, too much geek)
AMK seems limited to the circled B on most of there bolt heads. That would be for the 2 bolts in the cap top.
San Jose seems to have the anchor head marking for 67-70 shock to tower bolts.
You should consider getting a copy of "AMK Products Guide To Ford Fasteners". Lots of answers there.
Jim
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Saw a Dearborn 69 today; Anchors.
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Sorry for the late follow up - been on the road helping others
This is the only picture I have of a 69 NJ that was taken close enough to provide any help
From 9T177xxx
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-121115160411.jpeg)
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There is something there but can't tell what it is. The nuts seem to be a little different than mine to. Oh well. Thanks Jeff.
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There is something there but can't tell what it is. The nuts seem to be a little different than mine to. Oh well. Thanks Jeff.
To me it looks like the big T style. Looks like the head marking is like this illustration I did for another purpose
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-121115173633.jpeg)
Focused on the shock bolt rather than the nuts - will see how many of those I can find
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Sorry for the late follow up - been on the road helping others
This is the only picture I have of a 69 NJ that was taken close enough to provide any help
From 9T177xxx
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-121115160411.jpeg)
That doesn't appear to have the external toothed lock washer as part of the bolt.
Jim
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I just finished the finish on my shock cap bolts and nuts today and I know they are original. NY dec 1968 is when my car came through. Tomorrow, I will go look at them and either id what I have for you or take a picture of them so you can see.
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NJ I meant...
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That doesn't appear to have the external toothed lock washer as part of the bolt.
Can see a few highlights that might be them - hard to tell from the angle and resolution
OP's lack that same feature.
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sorry. having trouble posting pics.. maybe this will work. hope it helps
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Thanks for posting. Nuts appear goldish in color ? Got any pics of the two top bolts ? The ones holding the shocks to the cap. Mostly interested in any logo or letter and serrated washer if any ? Thanks, Brian
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I'm not sure on them. I believe they are like the above pic J sent. Ill be out of town this weekend but Ill go thru all the zip lock bags but even if I did find the right bag, I would not be confident enough to say they are the original because I know I've replaced the shocks a couple of times before I understood the important of conservation of parts. looking thru some old pictures on my car< I really can't tell. Sorry I miss understood your question.
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oh,, and those are not gold but p/o. just still wet from the oil and camera flash makes them look that way.
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Not great clarity but maybe these might help a little
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-141115154951-4799747.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-141115154950-47981307.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-141115154949-47972072.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-141115154948-47961368.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-141115154947-47891947.jpeg)
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Thank you Jeff. Looks like My carriage bolts and nuts are good enough. About the logo/stamps for the shock tower bolts; It seems the anchor was used at Dearborn and San Jose. No information for Metuchen. Jeff's ' Big T Style ' remains a possibility. Brian
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Got some shock tower top bolts from forum member jwc66k today. Re-finished OE bolts with the anchor logo. Brian
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Again, you are welcome, but how did you get that wonderful blue finish? The ones I sent were clear zinc. The US Postal System must have a secret method to color bolts. :-[
Jim
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The postal system or my photographic talents really can't say. Am I off base calling this color silver or is clear the correct terminology. Where does Zinc come into the picture ? Brian
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Zinc plating has several different colors. Clear is the shiny one, also called silver, and it comes in medium and bright, also called sharp. Then there is gold zinc, which is also called zinc chromate, and it has shades too. (I use the terminology "gold" instead of "chromate" to lower the confusion factor - keep it simple - and it's easier to spell.) Black zinc, olive drab zinc, blue zinc are some of the other industry standard colors. What get deposited on the items being plated is zinc. Colors are "optional". I use the words from the aerospace industry which, by no coincidence, is where the majority of my plater's business originates.
Jim
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Thank you. One more; Zinc Phosphate is the same as phosphate/oil ? Brian
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One more; Zinc Phosphate is the same as phosphate/oil ?
No. Zinc phosphate uses an electroplating process, phosphate (and oil) is a "cooking" process, a very hot water bath (180F up) with 1 to 2 percent phosphoric acid added (I got to read the instructions on the bottle). The oil is after drying. Magnesium phosphate is the most common. Parkerizing and conversion coating are specialized forms, Parkerizing being used on Military items. I can't remember much about conversion coating. The phosphate process is one of the oldest methods to protect iron and steel.
Jim
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OK that answers that. Perhaps I got some wrong information. I have a photo example, I do better with pictures, shock tower cap is Phosphate and Oil, nuts are Phosphate and Oil. The cap bolts are Silver Zinc. Concours correct for a NJ car ? Thanks, Brian
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Additional detail:
Conversion coatings involve a change or interaction between the substrate and coating material, as opposed to plating and other processes in which a material is applied over the substrate.
Phosphating - conversion coating that relies on a reaction of phosphoric acid to integrate the coating material into the surface of the substrate. Electrical current can be used to accelerate the process, but this is not typically done. Numerous materials can be applied in this manner - zinc, magnesium, iron. Iron phosphating is also known as Parkerizing. See the attached file for a thorough technical description.
Phosphate & oil - phosphating followed by an oil sealer. Magnesium is typical, but this can be done with zinc as well.
Zinc plating - zinc that has been applied through an electrochemical process.
Zinc chromate - a compound, not a coating. Is typically applied as a pigment in primer or paint.
Dichromate - conversion process used as a sealer over a metallic plating, typically zinc or cadmium. Also referred to as "yellow zinc" or "yellow cad", depending on which plating it is applied over. Yellow is common, but clear dichromating can be performed as well. Note that it can also be used over zinc phosphate, galvanizing and directly on zinc alloys such as pot metal (carburetors). Its primary purpose on zinc is to prevent "white rust". The dichromate is applied in an acid bath with dichromate salts. Older dichromate solutions used hexavalent chromium, which is toxic and highly controlled nowadays. Trivalent chromium is now used instead. See US Patent 2,035,380 for the origins of this process.
Galvanizing - zinc is applied by spray or by dipping in a bath of molten zinc.
Black oxide - a conversion coating in which iron on the part surface is converted to a black, oxidized layer. Corrosion protection is mild, be can be enhanced with an oil follow-up. Not the same nor as protective as phosphate & oil.
QPQ nitrocarburizing - a conversion coating that leaves a nice, deep, even black surface with improved corrosion resistance and lubricity. Essentially it's a black oxide, but with a different process. Not used on automotive parts to my knowledge (not vintage ones anyway), but one item in my "bag of tricks" for certain tooling.
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I know I'm not much help on this and way late, but those look just like my Dearbon built 69. Of course two shock bolts broke on me when taking the out...
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I know I'm not much help on this and way late, but those look just like my Dearbon built 69. Of course two shock bolts broke on me when taking the out...
In regards to the nuts ,yours are very much different then the ones from a reported Metuchen car pictured earlier. The ones in the previous pictures when compared show yours (FYI yours are typical Dearborn) have taller sides and a flat top . The earlier pictured ones are shorter and have a contour to the top. Something not shown well is the finish . The style of shorter ,contoured top nut is typically zinc silver. The typical taller flat top style Dearborn nut is Zinc phosphate.
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Thanks Bob I am certainly a rookie at the 100% concours...
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author=Brian Conway l
OK that answers that. Perhaps I got some wrong information. I have a photo example, I do better with pictures, shock tower cap is Phosphate and Oil, nuts are Phosphate and Oil. The cap bolts are Silver Zinc. Concours correct for a NJ car ? Thanks, Brian
Ok let me try this again ? Shock tower cap is Phosphate and Oil, Nuts are Zinc Phosphate and the top Bolts are Zinc Clear/Silver ? Thanks, Brian