ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: fjm on February 15, 2018, 06:35:52 PM
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I'm finishing up my restoration and am now working on my grille and trim. I've searched and found many opinions about colors and want to keep mine as factory original. The car is what is a standard build, not HIPO, not GT. It's a May 1965 Dearborn build, 289 2V, auto trans, convertible, Springtime Yellow with black interior and top. A pretty factory basic Mustang, and I'm trying to keep it that way.
I've matched the original grille side trim paint with Ford Argent and it looks like a perfect match. However, I've read a lot of web info, here and on other forums, stating a variety of "correct" colors for the grille..... Argent, dark Argent, blueish silver, etc., but not black. My problem is that mine is from the factory and was never repainted. It is now a dull BLACK that might have been flat, matte, or semi-gloss when first assembled, and then dulled with age....I have no way of knowing. I'm leaning toward painting it black again to keep it as it was but surprised I can't verify it's the correct color. Can anyone help verify that black was indeed used, at least in Dearborn builds of May 1965? I am keeping a journal of the resto progress and issues and it would be good to note.
Thanks in advance for any input.
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The search feature found the following by using "65 grill color paint"
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=14709.msg91731#msg91731 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=14709.msg91731#msg91731)
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=3195.msg17056#msg17056 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=3195.msg17056#msg17056)
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=4897.msg27235#msg27235 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=4897.msg27235#msg27235)
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Black is definitely not correct.
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Black is definitely not correct.
+1 Though many of us painted allot of them black. Looked better/cooler ::)
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what about the 64 1/2 model year? any changes from 65 or also argent silver?
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what about the 64 1/2 model year? any changes from 65 or also argent silver?
Some very early cars had a lighter color grille, but I wouldn't call it argent.
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Some very early cars had a lighter color grille, but I wouldn't call it argent.
Thanks Charles, so my July 64 Car has to have the color from the restored red 65 HIPO, from which we saw photos in another topic about the grille color?
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I would go with the normal '65 grille color.
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I would go with the normal '65 grille color.
It does stand out.
Jim
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Interesting responses.... e.g., "definitely not black."
Mine is virtually an original factory build but for the top and some repop sheet metal but it's not Concours quality but I'm trying. I cleaned the grille good, looked again and found that the back side looks phosphate and the outside of the bottom frame and the section that was under the top grille bracket mounted to the hood latch looks maybe gun-metal(ish) or maybe dark Argent (which was also suggested but I have no idea what that looks like). Racked my brain awhile then remembered that almost 45-50 yrs ago a buddy did a nice Springtime Yellow repaint for me and I'm wondering if he hit the grille with a coat of black. I'm now thinking he did.
I bought a replacement grille that has a not so good paint job... kinda shiny black with what looks like a metallic-green base coat bleeding thru on the back side. I want to paint the replacement correctly, thus my question. I have Ford Argent that matched the grille trim perfectly, so I know that is not correct for the grille. With black being my last resort, though it would go well with the black interior and top, is there a can of paint you know of that will give me the correct grille color?
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I would go with the normal '65 grille color.
Is this the normal 65 grille color? at the moment I don't have a better, closer photo from the grille. the car is in the shop.
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Looks most like what I have. Do you know what it's called?
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Three examples from very nice original cars, grill with original paint on them, built at Dearborn.
Before - within 3-4 weeks and after the date you posted
Contrast between the grill color and the black items in the pictures are apparent
Surprised how close they look on my monitor given that they were taken different days, different cameras under different conditions
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/9/6-160218220922.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/9/6-160218220909.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/9/6-160218220935.jpeg)
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Believe a number of the major parts houses have their version in rattle can. You would have to ask those that have used any of them how close they were
Don't forget the details ;)
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@ J_Speegle.... Thanks for the effort and post.
Good pictures. Dearborn on Mar 24, 65. Mine at Dearborn on May 14, 65. About 50 days apart and they look the same and I think verifies what mine should be.
Now I have to lock-in the color. Does anyone actually know what the heck is it? Gun-metal blue? Gun-metal gray? Dark Argent? NPD and CJ Pony sells cans of gun-metal but I've read that they aren't correct. NPD too light. CJ Pony too blue. Might be time to go look at store cans for a match. Maybe VHT has it.
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The closest is "Charcoal Blue". NPD sells it, I don't know who makes it.
Keep in mind that the two end pieces that attach to the headlamp buckets are semi-gloss black, and the rivets are black.
Jim
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Any follow-up to the correct paint color for the grill? I'll be watching this thread to see how I will finish my grill. And is that a stamp from 1985? That clearly looks like an 8 and not a 6.
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Any follow-up to the correct paint color for the grill? I'll be watching this thread to see how I will finish my grill. And is that a stamp from 1985? That clearly looks like an 8 and not a 6.
It is '1965', that was a picture I took.
Aren't you doing a '66? All those were black.
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The grille on my standard 65 convertible from Dearborn, MI had was a grayish with a hint of blue. I order #47 charcoal blue from Mustangs Plus after they told me it was the original color for my car. I received Gun Metal Blue, which I used. It looks nice but not original as far as I'm concerned. I emailed them about it and they responded by saying they would fix the website info. I doubt they will get the right #47 Charcoal Blue, but will instead it will say Gun Metal Blue. It appears if you want the correct factory color for their standard 65 grille it will have to be a special mix by local paint supplier.
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The grille on my standard 65 convertible from Dearborn, MI had was a grayish with a hint of blue. I order #47 charcoal blue from Mustangs Plus after they told me it was the original color for my car. .............. It appears if you want the correct factory color for their standard 65 grille it will have to be a special mix by local paint supplier.
Mustangs Plus is not really focused on supplying the restoration community - their focus is more for the modified driver owner and builder
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The grille on my standard 65 convertible from Dearborn, MI had was a grayish with a hint of blue. I order #47 charcoal blue from Mustangs Plus after they told me it was the original color for my car. I received Gun Metal Blue, which I used. It looks nice but not original as far as I'm concerned. I emailed them about it and they responded by saying they would fix the website info. I doubt they will get the right #47 Charcoal Blue, but will instead it will say Gun Metal Blue. It appears if you want the correct factory color for their standard 65 grille it will have to be a special mix by local paint supplier.
Definitely agree with your comments here, I went through the same with the Charcoal Blue from NPD but found there's no hint of blue in it and it's basically (a dark grey) charcoal, I then had a shop spray it with the color they said was correct which turned out to be metallic navy blue so I went to a renown Mustang restorer here and he stocked a pressure pack spray can he had color matched to an original 65 grille (labelled 65 Grille Silver Blue), it's the closest I've been able to find to the original color without actually knowing for sure if that makes sense, I just finished spraying mine a few weeks ago and completed by attaching the end brackets, shout out to Jim (jwc66k) for supplying me with the rivets, I'm happy with the way it turned out after 3 attempts.
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Dom, is your car ready for Perth at Easter
Rivets heads should be black
Is the grill original or repo
Cheers
Peter
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DOM
Did you sell your soul to that mustang restorer!!!!!!
arghhahahahaha
regards
PHILL BERESFORD
MELBOURNE.
AUSTRALIA.
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Dom, is your car ready for Perth at Easter
Rivets heads should be black
Is the grill original or repo
Unfortunately it won’t be ready Pete, could’ve done with another couple months :( will you be coming over?
Do you have more info on the rivets as I’ve been coached by some knowledgeable friends from way way way north.
Grille is was on the car, an original grille but not sure if original to the car, had previous repairs to some of the rivets.
Did you sell your soul to that mustang restorer!!!!!!
Phill, I think I sold my soul to you ;) hehe
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Dom
No not coming over, Phil might be ?
You'll have to wait Another 5 years till its back in WA
Read this thread on rivets
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=3311.msg17717#msg17717
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No not coming over, Phil might be ?
You'll have to wait Another 5 years till its back in WA
Read this thread on rivets
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=3311.msg17717#msg17717
Thanks Pete, you are correct on the rivets, back to the drawing board :-X
Yes Phill is coming on over, he couldn't resist.
Maybe not, I'll be prepared to travel to the next National event as long as Phill tells me the car is worthy too ;D
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Just another question on the grille rivets, what is correct for a 65 standard grille, are the (black) rivets that attach the support bars painted over when assembled and a natural (black) finish of the rivet head remains when the semi-gloss end pieces attached to the grille?
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Hi guys,
Just about to embark on my grille, have the "correct" paint etc but also a quick question....
Note that the mount tabs at the ends should be semi-gloss black, but what about the "strut" brackets on the rear of the mesh, that the grille bars attach to?
Should they also be black or the "blue" color?
Thanks
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black.
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black.
+1 re Black (use the same black on rivet heads and the end tabs)
Ron
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Brilliant, thanks guys.
Should I take it completely apart or mask off the struts?
Not sure I'll be able to find the right rivets here in Aus if I remove them....
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OK, it's time to reveal my "secret". Use Scott Drake 351603-S tubular rivets. They are supposed to be for 64-66 Vent Window Seals but a quick-rough measurement (with a dial caliper) shows the head size to be about the same size as the 64-65 grill end rivets and the rivets used for the two brackets for the grill bars, 8 required, and enough length, 0.200 inch to hold the grill ends to the grill, 0.100 inch (I just measured it with the same dial calipers). The only issue is the body diameter. A quick-rough measurement comes up with about (I'm measuring thru the plastic wrapper, different calipers - "indoor" ones, the other one is a "garage" caliper. You don't have two?) 0.120 inch dia.
The ones I have came from NPD, 21450-1AK, a kit of 10 IN BLACK OXIDE finish. You need a special tool to install.
Jim
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You should be able to find them I Australia. Run a search for simi-tubular rivets. You want the truss Head style.
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Thanks again guys.
I have an order pending from NPD so will talk to JT.
Also will see if I can find them locally in correct size.
Cheers
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Maybe I'm late to the party on this but these are the rivets that I used several years ago. If they're still available they are a near perfect match to the originals in size, shape and color.
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Someone was just advertising new repro grilles being made right color with black tabs and correct rivets...now if I could remember who
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Has anyone bought a reproduction grille recently from NPD? I pointed out to them that they had the holes for both non fog lights and fog lights on the grill for the different locations of the vertical bars instead of drilling the holes for the appropriate application. Rick from NPD was going to talk to the supplier about that.
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I sent JT The same message! ;D
The correct Grille rivets are actually available. NPD part number 351930-SAK (8 per pack)
I have just chemically paint stripped my original grille and it seems that no semi gloss black came off of the mounting tabs or vertical brackets. is it possible that these were a phosphate and oil finish?
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You need a special tool to install.
Can you elaborate on what this tool is please?
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Can you elaborate on what this tool is please?
Sure.
Pic 1 is the NPD 927-1 at $103.00 https://www.npdlink.com/
Pic 2 is one from Jay-Cee Sales at $180.00 https://rivetsinstock.com/
You need one each of the following dies. They run about $35.00 - $40.00 each at Jay-Cee Sales.
Pic 3 is the top die, it "fits" the dome of the rivet. There are many styles and sizes.
Pic 4 is the bottom, or the one that "rolls" the rivet. Again, many styles and sizes.
Pic 5 is my arbor press fitted with the dies.
Pic 6 is some of the "fittings" I made.
I've used mine to rebuild 64-66 Mustang ash trays plus a lot of non-Mustang stuff.
Jim
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Exactly what I was after. Thanks Jim!
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Has anyone bought a reproduction grille recently from NPD? I pointed out to them that they had the holes for both non fog lights and fog lights on the grill for the different locations of the vertical bars instead of drilling the holes for the appropriate application. Rick from NPD was going to talk to the supplier about that.
I just received a GT one this week and it still has the extra hole for the non GT version. The two rivets on the left hand bracket were not aligned very well. Wish I had seen you post sooner as this one is on the way back.