ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Misc Items => Topic started by: Skyway65 on September 27, 2011, 08:21:07 PM
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I had the new top installed on my ’65 a month ago. After sitting for a few weeks I’m beginning to see the outline of the pads and some issues with the #4 bow visible through the top. I reused the original factory pads that were on the car in an attempt to keep it as original as possible.
On the original top none of these issues were visible. The replacement top is thinner fabric than the original was; is this the problem? What is the remedy for these flaws? Do I live with them the way they are? I’m not happy with it! Thoughts or comments please.
(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab270/bertram65/convertible%20top/DSC_0851.jpg)
(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab270/bertram65/convertible%20top/DSC_0904.jpg)
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Gary,
Your car is coming along great! When you put as much effort in as you have, I wouldn't "live with" anything.
Take it off, talk to Richard Smykay, and maybe deviate a little from original to get the results you expect.
Bryan
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I have seen original cars with a piece of foam seated at the ends of each side of the rear bow. The foam stands up off the edge about 1/8" so that it compresses when the top is against it. Helps hide the shape of the bow.
You will need to check with the top manufacturer to determine the weight of the material used. It sure looks like you have some thin stuff with the outline of the pads showing through.
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Thanks for the comments guys--Charles do you happen to know what the weight of the original fabric was? 38 oz?
Does anyone have a similar problem or am I the lucky one with this!? :'(
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I would have to ask a friend in the trim business what the original fabric weight was.
Are you sure that the top pads are original? Those rear quarters usually flare out as they go down to the lower tacking strip. Might be you have the wrong pads. I normally see the edge of the pad close to the edge by the rear window/top.
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Yes- those pads were there from day one. There was only one set of staple holes when I took them apart. They are the same material as the pads that run across the top of the bows, heavy black webbing. I may have to change to the other style of pads to spread out the pressure a bit; if the other pads are thinner they won't show through as much, perhaps. :-\
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I have seen that style of pad, probably was used on the earlier cars. I'm guessing the top material is the problem here.
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Mr. Smykay's e-book says on page 91 that the Ford Assembly Manual call for 51045's to be put there to make it look best from the outside.
He shows a picture on page 92 of how he did his and what he would do different, in retrospect.
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Mr. Smykay's e-book says on page 91 that the Ford Assembly Manual call for 51045's to be put there to make it look best from the outside.
He shows a picture on page 92 of how he did his and what he would do different, in retrospect.
Bryan--What do you mean by 51045's? Another type of pad? Thanks--
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Gary,
I have no Idea what part that is in the Ford Assembly manual, but I thought that may be a piece of the puzzle you may need to get to the bottom of it. Good Luck.
I'm sure it's some kind of padding strip.
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thanks for that. the search is on for the 51045's! ;D
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Fom my research of the fabric used then and the weight of the fabric used today there is no difference in the overall thickness. With that said the original top were composed of a layer of butyl which was then overlaid with vinyl. Todays tops are the same mil thickness as the old ones but all vinyl and no butyl. Butyl provides superior water resistance but as it ages it looses some elastisity and becomes brittle. Thats why you saw the old tops crack. I'm not sure whose the manufacturer of the top you bought but there are good ones and some you want to stay away from.
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I'm not sure whose the manufacturer of the top you bought but there are good ones and some you want to stay away from.
Thanks for the info-but of course that begs the question which tops to stay away from? I don't want to mention where this top came from and put that company in a bad light if there is something going on here besides the thickness of the material. So, let me ask it in a different way, which top companies would you NOT stay away from?
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Word I've heard is Kee brand or ________. I can't remember the other one.
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Almost every top manufacturer will offer different grades of material, so I don't think you can rate them based on that. The fit and construction of the top are the main factors.
Kee and Robin are the 2 suppliers that I would use.
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Here's a very timely thread on VMF where Richard Smykay is answering someone asking the SAME question.
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vintage-mustang-forum/634208-best-replacement-convertible-top.html
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Both Kee and Robbins are good manufacturers but I would request that they use Doubletex fabric and not singletex. Doubletex is the butyl backed material like original. Might be harder to work with so not for the DIY possibly. It is not common either anymore as everyone uses singletex as the standard material. Also 30% to 50% more expensive so things to consider. Very few people get doubletex tops but if your doing a 67 to 73 white top it is spot on with the original Ford color. Also available in black. The butyl is dense which would make it seem heavier but crossectional thickness of singletex and doubletex is the same ( 32 or 37 mills?). I hope this explains the material better. Custom order so it will take a few weeks to get a doubletex top so plan ahead.
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Both Kee and Robbins are good manufacturers but I would request that they use Doubletex fabric and not singletex. Doubletex is the butyl backed material like original. Might be harder to work with so not for the DIY possibly. It is not common either anymore as everyone uses singletex as the standard material.
I'm trying, like most of us on this site, to get the car as close to original as possible so this Doubletex fabric has me intrigued. Is the difference that noticeable? Does anyone have any photos of one installed on their car? Thanks for all the help on this topic.
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Yes I have one on mine. I will try to take some close-up pics in the next day or two as car is at an off-site garage.
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Yes I have one on mine. I will try to take some close-up pics in the next day or two as car is at an off-site garage.
thanks
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Skyway here are some pics of the doubletex top. I had the top down just before taking the pics so dont be detered by some of the wrinkles you see. They are not normally there. The window is also down so thats why no stretch in the sail panels.
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Thank you for taking the time to post those shots; looks great. Did you use the pads that came with the new top or did you reuse the originals? (if you had them) Are there any signs of the pads showing through?
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New pads and they don't show through. I would attribute that to the weight of butyl layer. Vinyl top layer is thin and the butyl is heavy.
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Got it.
One guy I was talking with yesterday suggested that I just forget about using the rear pads. Then there is no chance of the pad marks showing because there are no pads. Comment was made that lots of people do it that way to avoid the problem as well as to get a lower stack height when the top is folded down. Do you REALLY need the rear pads?
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Cant answer that for sure but i do know that the sail panels were extra from the guy I got this top from. I will say that the stack in the back looks tall but Ive only dropped the top to work on the interior a few times.. Havent tried installing the boot yet but may try that in the next week so I will let you know.
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The rear pads were used at the factory, so unless you want to deviate from original, they should be there.
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The rear pads were used at the factory, so unless you want to deviate from original, they should be there.
Charles that is true-but at this point, after spending a chunk of cash for the top and install, I'm trying to figure out how to get the job redone and assure that I won't have these visible marks again when I'm finished.
Do you suppose it may just be as simple as installling the other, wider, style of pads even though they are not original to my car? You mentioned that you like Kee tops, do you use the single or double fabric version?
Finally, to add another piece to the puzzle, the narrower pads that are on my car now are actually totally hidden by the rear window assembly when viewed from the inside of the car. So, looking at it now you can't even see the pads, except of course from the outside!! :-[
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You may need to find another top-installer in your area. There could be any number of issues causing the problems you have.
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A bit late, but stumbled on the thread, referring to the 50145 pads. These are a small pad that was used as filler at the outer ends of Bow #4. Over the rear curtain, under the top fabric, held by adhesive. Called out in the FAM's as just a "filler", but no deails as with most the pads and soft "pattern parts.
As noted in my document I would now add a strip of medium density closed cell foam there, as without it the top fabric sucks down a bit into the channel of the bow. I have info from Scott Halseth of NDP that the material was polurethance foam, and size was 4" x 3/4" x 1/2" thick, based on Ford drawings.
Not reproduced AFAIK, but pretty easy to fabricate.
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... and my Kee top has similar lines, but its from the manufacture of the top and the seams in the rear panels, not due to the pads...
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I have since had the top refit. Lines are now gone. Apparently, the top was originally pulled too tight allowing the pads to exert outward force through the top material. Scott at NPD sent me a set of the small foam pads; they helped to eliminate the #4 bow marks. Overall, it's looking much better!