ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Processes, Products & Techniques => Topic started by: Skyway65 on July 14, 2012, 09:30:04 AM
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Has anyone ever successfully etched the FOMOCO logo onto a headlight? I have a pair of correct NOS GE 6012 headlights for my '65 as well as the correct artwork copied from an original light. But I am having a difficult time finding someone who is able to reproduce such a small, detailed stencil to etch the logo onto the headlight. Any ideas would be appreciated.
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Has anyone ever successfully etched the FOMOCO logo onto a headlight? I have a pair of correct NOS GE 6012 headlights for my '65 as well as the correct artwork copied from an original light. But I am having a difficult time finding someone who is able to reproduce such a small, detailed stencil to etch the logo onto the headlight. Any ideas would be appreciated.
You are retracing the steps that many before you have tried and failed . The best of luck with your effort.
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Thanks for that Bob; I was hoping for something better than that! :o
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I would look at the process some used a long time ago putting the FoMoCo on the older Fords of the 30-40's When I played with those guys would use a putty on the glass and press in a stamp for the design then followed with a light (ait brush style) sand blaster to etch the glass.
Just a thought ;)
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I too was following that path till I found a nice set of TS lamps. I was going to try a PS Auto Glass Co. They put the Carlite logo and build date on their windshields so I thought it might be possible that they could help. Good luck if you try it. Let us know. Marty
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I'll bet PS can do it. What headlights does someone need to start with?
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I wouldn't think it would be that hard to do. A few years back we had a recall on Ford Contours were the factory had left the AS1 markings off the windshield. We were provided rub on masks ( like the vinyl decals dealers use) that we put on the glass then applied a dab of etching solution that we let set for a few seconds then wiped off. After scraping off the mask it left a perfect etching. The problem would be finding someone to cut the masks. Possibly one of the decal makers for modeling.
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Another problem is the flutting (lines ,ribs etc.)in the glass is different then the vintage bulbs. GE is different now ,Tung Soll is gone ,and Westinghouse is the molded type. So even if you find someone to etch the logo in the glass , the different flutting is a visual giveaway that can be seen long before you get up close enough to see a etched trademark.
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I have some plain vintage bulbs that work. Marty
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I had to replace a burned out headlamp today. It was a Ford factory installed, etched Tung-Sol bulb. Arggg! Well, I got a set of NPD Wagners, plus a set of Westinghouse cast-in for show purposes. Stock up while you can.
Jim
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Another problem is the flutting (lines ,ribs etc.)in the glass is different then the vintage bulbs. GE is different now ,Tung Soll is gone ,and Westinghouse is the molded type. So even if you find someone to etch the logo in the glass , the different flutting is a visual giveaway that can be seen long before you get up close enough to see a etched trademark.
I was able to locate a couple of NOS correct GE 6012 lamps. I have also located a stenciling place that claims that they can do the small mask stencils and still maintain the detail. I will update as the project progresses.
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Somewhat on the same subject but will hopefully be usefull info is to be careful sending vintage used bulbs through mail,ups etc. The movement during shipping is the cause of about a 50%or more failure rate once it gets to it's destination and tested.Always test once you receive one. They may not light up at all or when you light them up, they flash ,fill with smoke and are useless. I typically only buy at swap meets or get a guarantee from online buyer that way if it happens I have a better chance of getting a replacement or money back. Typically a seasoned bulb seller know better then to guarantee a shipped bulb.
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I had to replace a burned out headlamp today. It was a Ford factory installed, etched Tung-Sol bulb. Arggg! Well, I got a set of NPD Wagners, plus a set of Westinghouse cast-in for show purposes. Stock up while you can.
Jim
I thought the new Drake repros were Westinghouse......at least Westinghouse-looking......can't they just get rid of the stupid attempt at simmiliar logo and put the right Westinghouse logo on it?
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think it had something to do with copyright stuff.
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I was able to locate a couple of NOS correct GE 6012 lamps. I have also located a stenciling place that claims that they can do the small mask stencils and still maintain the detail. I will update as the project progresses.
Nice work Gary, please keep us informed
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think it had something to do with copyright stuff.
Fred, I asked Paul Kerner about that straight up and he said no, that wasn't the reason.......kinda makes us wonder though...
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Guys, The older repros with the etched logos.......I understand that they were plant-specific on headlights.....I have the etched repros on my July 1965 Dearborn car......I have been told that THEY are correct from that plant and time frame......wonder why these repros aren't made anymore??
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Guys, Here are the etched repros that I have on my July 1965 Dearborn car, the ones that are said not to be available/made anymore, note-they are standard incandescent lights:http://www.cjponyparts.com/headlight-sealed-beam-incandescent-with-fomoco-script-1965-1968-1970-1973/p/HL7/
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I don't know where you got your information from about "not being available anymore" but I've got a set of the same etched headlights from NPD waiting to go on my car. I've had them for at least eight years, and they are Wagners. I previously sold a set of Wagners that I had for a couple of years to a club member then for a judged car show she was going to, then replaced them with some new ones, also from NPD.
That being said, Wagner was not making headlights for Ford in 1964-73 (I don't even know if they were even in existance). The prime bulb suppliers were Tung-Sol (their logo was TS), General Electric (aka GE), Sylvania (spelled out) and Westinghouse (a "W"). Some Ford logos were etched and some were cast in, all on the center of the bulb front. I have a set of cast in Ford logo made by Westinghouse (I thought they were GE). They are date coded for 1968.
With the current "politically correct to the environment thinking" going on, all incandescent bulbs are the devil's creation and you will use halogen or LED bulbs as replacement.
My advice is to stock up before the thinking gets to you.
Jim
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Guys, Here are the etched repros that I have on my July 1965 Dearborn car, the ones that are said not to be available/made anymore, note-they are standard incandescent lights:http://www.cjponyparts.com/headlight-sealed-beam-incandescent-with-fomoco-script-1965-1968-1970-1973/p/HL7/
A point of posting protocol, if you leave a space before and after a link you include in your post, any reader can click on the highlighted link and go there instead of copying and pasting. Just a hint.
http://www.cjponyparts.com/headlight-sealed-beam-incandescent-with-fomoco-script-1965-1968-1970-1973/p/HL7/
Jim
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The etched bulbs were unavailable for a couple years and then recently a vendor came out with the odd "Westinghorse" or what ever deviant of the logo molded in halogen. I see that someone is now making the etched incandescent again from your link . Before it was based on a generic Wagner bulb with a etched FORD logo applied which as Jim mentioned was not a OEM supplier to Ford and which looked odd on the repro bulb. I wonder who makes these new bulbs now which are advertised made by a OE supplier in the new and improved link ? It really bugs me that these bulbs are refereed to as a reproduction because they are some of the worst examples of reproduction when compared to original that are out there in the aftermarket world. Slapping a FORD logo on some bulb that does not look close other then the basic shape should be a insult to all of us. I guess it is frustrating that with technology today something better couldn't be made and marketed even at the elevated price it would no doubt have to be . Just my opinion.
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The etched bulbs were unavailable for a couple years and then recently a vendor came out with the odd "Westinghorse" or what ever deviant of the logo molded in halogen. I see that someone is now making the etched incandescent again from your link . Before it was based on a generic Wagner bulb with a etched FORD logo applied which as Jim mentioned was not a OEM supplier to Ford and which looked odd on the repro bulb. I wonder who makes these new bulbs now which are advertised made by a OE supplier in the new and improved link ? It really bugs me that these bulbs are refereed to as a reproduction because they are some of the worst examples of reproduction when compared to original that are out there in the aftermarket world. Slapping a FORD logo on some bulb that does not look close other then the basic shape should be a insult to all of us. I guess it is frustrating that with technology today something better couldn't be made and marketed even at the elevated price it would no doubt have to be . Just my opinion.
OK so now you guys are going to rag on the fact I made a mistake as to how I posted a link to the lights.....wow!
AND, then 1 says he doesn't know where I get my info as to the incandescent etched lights wern't available anymore, 1 says he has had the incandescents for 8 years, 1 says the "NEWEST" Incandescents aren't any good either........
I'll bet the manufacturers of the repro lights and other repro stuff are sitting back laughing their asses off at us all the way to THEIR bank!
ALL I was doing is sharing information that I had heard in the feild about the Incandescent etched lights, I didn't realize that someone IS evedentally making the etched ones again until I found the listing on CJ's site after doing a Google search!
I remember back when Brant started a post about the Drake lights coming soon and he was under the impression that THEY were going to be Incandescent and they turned out to be Halogen.
I firmly believe the technology exists to make a nice bright halogen light to look exactly like an original Incandescent with the proper logos both for the Ford script and the manufacturers logos.
I also asked the question about these headlights being plant-specific and don't think I received an opinion or answer on that-anyone know? -seems there are 2 choices on the market now:Halogen EMBOSSED with a bad attempt at a look-alike manufacturers logo, and an Incandescent with ETCHED logo and (I guess) someone said the fluting wasn't right....
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OK so now you guys are going to rag on the fact I made a mistake as to how I posted a link to the lights.....wow!
AND, then 1 says he doesn't know where I get my info as to the incandescent etched lights wern't available anymore, 1 says he has had the incandescents for 8 years, 1 says the "NEWEST" Incandescents aren't any good either........
I'll bet the manufacturers of the repro lights and other repro stuff are sitting back laughing their asses off at us all the way to THEIR bank!
ALL I was doing is sharing information that I had heard in the feild about the Incandescent etched lights, I didn't realize that someone IS evedentally making the etched ones again until I found the listing on CJ's site after doing a Google search!
I remember back when Brant started a post about the Drake lights coming soon and he was under the impression that THEY were going to be Incandescent and they turned out to be Halogen.
I firmly believe the technology exists to make a nice bright halogen light to look exactly like an original Incandescent with the proper logos both for the Ford script and the manufacturers logos.
I also asked the question about these headlights being plant-specific and don't think I received an opinion or answer on that-anyone know? -seems there are 2 choices on the market now:Halogen EMBOSSED with a bad attempt at a look-alike manufacturers logo, and an Incandescent with ETCHED logo and (I guess) someone said the fluting wasn't right....
I actually thought Jim was polite in the way he pointed out the link issue ? I only thought of the post in a friendly helpful way not meant to be disrespectful. I hope you were kidding and didn't take it in a disrespectful way. I do think we need a emocticon that symbolizes "friendly" for instances like this.Sometimes a smiley face can be taken as smurking and inaproprieate. Like the two glass toasting each other for friendship on another forum I frequent. The written word can be tricky to decipher emotion and intention sometimes. I made 2 failed attempts to link to the bulb listing before the improved link was posted. So it was helpful to me . I don't think the bulbs were meant to be plant specific however with that said there were suppliers that took care of the vast majority of the bulbs used at certain plants. For instance I have only seen GE and TS on SJ plant cars but would only be mildly surprised if I saw another mfg bulb. Dearborn used TS extensively. Others can fill in blanks . Besides the fluting on the etched incandescent bulb there was always a issue with the MFG logo because Wagner was not a OEM supplier to Ford. I don't know if the new incandescent is the same Wagner or not. At any rate both repro types are sorely lacking in appearance IMHO.
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The stencils have been ordered-should be here in a week. Fingers crossed that they will work. In the meantime these are the results that I achieved with a simple rubber stamp duplicating the logo from one of my original headlights.
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Hey that looks pretty good. I can't wait to see the etching. Marty
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Looks good should turn out well. BTW not all of the FoMoCo script headlights I've got have the little printing over the top of the logo
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The stencils have been ordered-should be here in a week. Fingers crossed that they will work. In the meantime these are the results that I achieved with a simple rubber stamp duplicating the logo from one of my original headlights.
They look better then I expected.
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They look better then I expected.
thanks Bob-- :)
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Well the stencils turned out better than I expected and the results are stunning. This process worked perfectly. :D
First step is to apply the stencil, second step is blast it for a few seconds with the sand etch gun, the third step is to pull off the tape, final step-stand back and admire!
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Thanks for sharing Gary - figured it would work well (based on the early car stamp and puddy practice I've seen in the past. Glad there is another option for the do it yourself crowd
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Well the stencils turned out better than I expected and the results are stunning. This process worked perfectly. :D
First step is to apply the stencil, second step is blast it for a few seconds with the sand etch gun, the third step is to pull off the tape, final step-stand back and admire!
Very nice! Thanks for sharing. :)
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Well the stencils turned out better than I expected and the results are stunning. This process worked perfectly. :D
First step is to apply the stencil, second step is blast it for a few seconds with the sand etch gun, the third step is to pull off the tape, final step-stand back and admire!
This is fantastic!! again what lights did you start with?
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I was able to locate a pair of NOS General Electric 6012 lamps. They are the old style lights that matched the one original that I had still had. These lights would have been sold at an auto parts store many years ago but they did not have the FOMOCO logo on them.
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-Do we know what plants typically used what bulbs in what years? were the etched ones used throughout? or were the embossed ones used along the line as well?
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-Do we know what plants typically used what bulbs in what years? were the etched ones used throughout? or were the embossed ones used along the line as well?
Don't believe there is enough data to make any conclusions - JMHO
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Thanks Jeff! I also see where someone has started reproducing the etched lights again, not sure if THEY are incandescent or Halogen.....
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My friend on Facebook did it. Here's a PICTURE. His name is Kelly Sedars. I have no idea how he git the stencils.
(http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/299473_2346918749231_4437707_n.jpg)(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/307824_2346921309295_1245534_n.jpg)(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/313713_2338926389427_3670525_n.jpg)
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Those look like the ones for glass.......not headlights......
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Same Principle, approximate complexity and technique.... :P
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It would look a whole lot nicer with a cold beer filling it up 8)
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It would look a whole lot nicer with a cold beer filling it up 8)
+1!!
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Well can "we" get the stencils, sand blast bottle, etc....to do it yourselfers???? Also any source for the smaller 69 bulbs, or i assume this etch stencil process can be done of the smaller bulbs as well.
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Well can "we" get the stencils, sand blast bottle, etc....to do it yourselfers????
I am a total do-it-your-selfer, not a pro by any stretch of the imagination. I spent 3 months tracking down all the info I needed to get this job done. That is half the fun of this hobby- researching, looking, experimenting with different techniques,etc. and then sharing what you learned. There is no secret here, it's all about the motivation to make the car as close to factory as possible. And yes, the etching technique will work on any glass object wether it be a '69 headlight or a cold beer mug. ;)
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Well can "we" get the stencils, sand blast bottle, etc....to do it yourselfers???? Also any source for the smaller 69 bulbs, or i assume this etch stencil process can be done of the smaller bulbs as well.
We stock and sell the 1969 4 headlight system with FoMoCo etchings used.
http://www2.cougarpartscatalog.com/hibeam.html
http://www2.cougarpartscatalog.com/67lobeam.html
You can request dates.