ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: Hipo giddyup on September 04, 2013, 11:59:29 AM
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I've heard a lot about a "black out" approach on the steering boxes. This is where the cast look was painted black, I guess to prevent it rusting? Can anyone explain this and does the whole box get sprayed black or just sprayed down from the top of the box?? Right now my steering box is cast colored but I'm at a great point to correct it before I finish anymore under the hood. Thanks.
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It was either sprayed or painted with a brush, typical to see runs going down the side. I can't say for sure when this practice began on Mustangs but I have an August '64 Dearborn example with the blackout.
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So would an aerosol spray paint reproduce this close to factory? Is so do you think satin, gloss, or flat?
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So would an aerosol spray paint reproduce this close to factory? Is so do you think satin, gloss, or flat?
I can't say for 64.5 but the vast majority of the 65 's I have seen appeared to be brushed and just a few sprayed. I have only seen brushed application on the 66-68 I have seen. With what I have seen it appears to have defaulted to that type application IMO.This would have been a quick and easy way to make the application and not worry about overspray. The brushing typically is as the assembly manual instructions call for -which is what you can see from above when you look in the engine bay. With that said I have seen some that appeared mostly all over but typically the ones I have observed were the tops and partial on the side. Probably a semi gloss black on the order of the pinchweld type paint. Just my observations.
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Mostly seen some San Jose cars with the black out on the steering box - but not all. When observed they appear to have been done with a brush and with allot of paint - but not caring effort ;)
Likely the same paint as used to black out headlight buckets when brushes were used, or missed pinch weld Looks to be a lacquer based for quick drying and not gloss - as they would not want a reflection on something that wanted blacked out
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Mostly seen some San Jose cars with the black out on the steering box - but not all. When observed they appear to have been done with a brush and with allot of paint - but not caring effort ;)
Likely the same paint as used to black out headlight buckets when brushes were used, or missed pinch weld Looks to be a lacquer based for quick drying and not gloss - as they would not want a reflection on something that wanted blacked out
I agree with Jeff that I too have seen many without any signs of ever had paint blackout .That makes it all the more interesting .
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I was thinking it would be a nice touch in the event I start showing the car. How would this be graded at a show?? Either with the black out or without is acceptable?
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I was thinking it would be a nice touch in the event I start showing the car. How would this be graded at a show?? Either with the black out or without is acceptable?
I would say that it depends on the show (organization) their rules, when and where your car was built as well as the knowledge of the judges. No fat and easy answer to cover all situations IMHO. Could see situations where the black out would cost you points and others were it would not matter if it was there or not.
One challenge with new details I've found is that some jump on any new detail that has been introduced (accepting it with enthusiasm) and what to apply it immediately to all or every car just because they saw it on the internet or in a magazine. Generally speaking of things and new "facts" in general ;)
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The MCA rules allow for cars with or without it. I would want to see consistent evidence from the time period a car was built before applying it. Or, if you are certain you have the original box and found the black-out, then reproduce it. Consider that it could have been painted over during a previous owner engine bay "restoration". So, it may take some investigating to figure out if blackout is really that.
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Thanks to all. I agree with what's been said and I am probably not going to black it out because I cannot be sure the box was originally that way. For now it will remain cast colored.
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Thanks to all. I agree with what's been said and I am probably not going to black it out because I cannot be sure the box was originally that way. For now it will remain cast colored.
Think you've made a wise choice!
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I have looked at a lot of steering boxes and cleaned them a majority of them donot have the black paint on them
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Jun 65 Dearborn FB HCC AX box. When cleaned, I was able to uncover the factory paint daubs under the brushed-on blackout. The paint was applied to the top and just a smudge down the inboard side
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Jun 65 Dearborn FB HCC AX box. When cleaned, I was able to uncover the factory paint daubs under the brushed-on blackout. The paint was applied to the top and just a smudge down the inboard side
I've seen a lot blacked out around the May-July time period from Dearborn...
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I've seen a lot blacked out around the May-July time period from Dearborn...
April 19th scheduled Dearborn
I'm thinking this was blacked out and I need to take a closer look but the arrow in the picture points to what looks to be a paint daub?
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-GTvLeIm4DRY/UivtrIUpLuI/AAAAAAAAEdY/Gd949_voTV8/s640/65%2520Dearborn.JPG)
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It's not unusual to see paint markings under the blackout. If you remove the steering box and clean it, probably find more marks.
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So if the box had no black out what finish should the steel cap, the adjusting bolt and 3 mounting bolts be please?
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So if the box had no black out what finish should the steel cap, the adjusting bolt and 3 mounting bolts be please?
Box is cast iron with brighter machined surfaces
Cap at end of the shaft is zinc or cad
Cover is bare steel - fresh plate steel
Three retaining bolts I've always made them heat treated
Adjustment shaft dare fresh machined
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Thank you Jeff. Appreciate it.
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Hi again and thanks for the info so far. Just wondering how this part should be finished. It seems that the thread should be bright like a machined finish then the centre is cast but I'm not sure about the top cylindrical bit is it cast or machined and if it is cast the very top bevel seems to have been machined?
Thanks
Dan.
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On the top one with wire brush the threaded area (looks like it already has been and oil
On the bottom pictures I would
Red arrows - Brighten by passing a very fine sand paper over the surface. Could use it in a band form - might make it easier
And leave the other surfaces the cast color - Did look for any pictures of the ones I've done recently but hard to get the details in a picture. Either its too dark to show the differences our too bright and the reflections produce an odd look - or even hide the differences between the finishes
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-120715192218.jpeg)
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Here are some black paint runs and a blue paint mark I found on my steering box:
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s522/Dakloos1963/IMG_8718_zpsdmnb7ka1.jpg)
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s522/Dakloos1963/IMG_8710_zpss5xriwsj.jpg)
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Here are some black paint runs and a blue paint mark I found on my steering box:
Erwin what plant?
Guessing this is from a spring 66 Mustang - ?
A top picture might be of special help since that is the most visible surface once installed ;)
Thanks for sharing
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Jeff,
Sorry no top pictures :-[. It's a SJ car, scheduled build date is 24L. Tag on top is 5L17B which would be correct but that number compared to the casting date tells me the box is not the Original one :(.
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Jeff,
Sorry no top pictures :-[. It's a SJ car, scheduled build date is 24L. Tag on top is 5L17B which would be correct but that number compared to the casting date tells me the box is not the Original one :(.
Don't see a time gap of 4 months between the case being cast and being assembled as a completed assembly as a big red flag. And since your projected date of November 24 is just a guess, car could have been built in Jan, it might be a fit.
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Don't see a time gap of 4 months between the case being cast and being assembled as a completed assembly as a big red flag. And since your projected date of November 24 is just a guess, car could have been built in Jan, it might be a fit.
Thanks Jeff, now I'm sure that at least something is orginal on my car. I'm pretty sure my car is build arround the 24th of november: original owners manual...a Hertz car :) :)
(http://members.upc.nl/e.pilage5/Restoration/The%20purchase/slides/IMG_1791.JPG)
Don't want to steal this topic but here are some more paint marks I found:
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s522/Dakloos1963/IMG_8709_zps7xdvnlhp.jpg)
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s522/Dakloos1963/IMG_8706_zpsqcfepine.jpg)
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Just wanted to ask if this is definitely paint runs and not any type of undercoating?? It looks like undercoating on other parts of the steering box??? ???
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Just wanted to ask if this is definitely paint runs and not any type of undercoating?? It looks like undercoating on other parts of the steering box??? ???
Definitely paint runs, seen a bunch exactly the same way.
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What was the purpose of blacking out the steering gear box when on light colored interiors you could still see the steering column coming through the firewall?
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Here is a steering box that I restored that is December 1964. You can see the original paint dabs and some small evidence of blackout applied. I try to document as many of the steering boxes with original paint markings as possible that I rebuild. At this point I have restored close to 50 of the steering boxes and I would say maybe about 30% show signs of a blackout applied. So in my opinion it should not be any deduction either way on a car if it has or doesnt have the blackout because it varies too much. I personally dont like to add the blackout because it hides all the detailed work that goes into restoring one of these....but thats just my personal preference. I let people add it themselves if they want.
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/azscj/IMG_9646_zpsh8k76wib.jpg)
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/azscj/IMG_9645_zpsdxlhvs7z.jpg)
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What was the purpose of blacking out the steering gear box when on light colored interiors you could still see the steering column coming through the firewall?
Exactly as the name implies - it was designed to black out the steering box - make it harder to see and possibly to keep a rusty chunk of metal from being seen in the engine compartment. A bit unusual by Ford's standards since under hood and trunk they didn't worry much about finishes as they did on the exterior or interior where there are many examples where they blacked things out from view or even cared about the quality of the exterior paint surface
The "light" steering columns was unaffected by the black out process since it appears (when done) that it only effected (main focus) the top surface of the steering box
Agree with azscj this was not done on all cars at any plant in any year. Maybe there is a pattern that we have not been able to document or establish so at this time either way is OK and would suggest to any owner only reproduce it if you find evidence of it
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Here's my example, Dearborn sched build date 3/24/64
Does anyone have a picture of one they've restored and applied the blackout to?
With the amount of black that's flaked off its hard to tell where to stop and what the edges should look like.
I was thinking to apply with a brush, is it recommended to attempt that installed as per the factory?
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Here's my example, Dearborn sched build date 3/24/64
Does anyone have a picture of one they've restored and applied the blackout to?
With the amount of black that's flaked off its hard to tell where to stop and what the edges should look like.
I was thinking to apply with a brush, is it recommended to attempt that installed as per the factory?
The best way to get the historic look is to apply the black like the factory did and easier too IMO. I use a 2 inch brush. Don't need to be fancy or careful . They weren't .
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I was thinking to apply with a brush, is it recommended to attempt that installed as per the factory?
I would do it once installed - just much easier IMHO and then the paint runs will travel as they naturally will and and any splatter ends up as it might have on the line. Sometimes were over think things and make things more difficult than they need to be. ;)
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Late '65 Dearborn example.
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2 Jan '65 San Jose examples
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Bob, Jeff and Charles
Thanks for your comments and examples, it sets the record straight.