ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1969 Mustang => Topic started by: 69 black r code on November 26, 2013, 09:10:00 PM
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What is the correct finish for the front coil springs on a 4/69 NJ car? Thanks!!
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Like a phosphate color. Probably from an oil quenching process. From a dark gray to almost looking black....Hope this helps.
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Like a phosphate color. Probably from an oil quenching process. From a dark gray to almost looking black....Hope this helps.
+1 Basically dark heat treated steel.
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Thought you might like to see an original. Colors are supposed to be gold and pink. Brian
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Thanks for the replys!!!
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Some restored/refinished examples I've done
Dearborn car
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/69%20GT350%20Restoration/1-Batchcolor.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/69%20GT350%20Restoration/1-Batchcolor.jpg.html)
San Jose 69
As they came off the car
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/69%209R02R13%20Project/9R02R131545Frontspringmrks2.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/69%209R02R13%20Project/9R02R131545Frontspringmrks2.jpg.html)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/69%209R02R13%20Project/9R02R131545PSfrntsusp.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/69%209R02R13%20Project/9R02R131545PSfrntsusp.jpg.html)
Another application
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/ConcoursMustang/DansFrontsprings_zps3babae61.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/ConcoursMustang/DansFrontsprings_zps3babae61.jpg.html)
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Jeff somebodyneeds to come up with a way to duplicate the finish on front & rear springs in a kit to sell restorers to get that rite & gm & mopar guys also need this. I have a set of new take-off & nos 428 cj coil springs & the finish is different between them. By the way I just got the triangle liecence plate screws done & david davis was here today & got original original b2 b9 68=69 428 cj & 70 cj pcv hoses to make the correct way & texture & markings & they are being worked on. I also sent to amk the assembly line c5az correct battery J-bolt for 65-69 cars so they can be made concours correct so no more shortening the current doaz long service replacement bolts.
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Jeff somebodyneeds to come up with a way to duplicate the finish on front & rear springs in a kit to sell restorers to get that rite & gm & mopar guys also need this.......................
Think you would need to have the paint and the bare metal version. Paint is pretty easy (outlined on this site a number of times and they turn out well - just don't over time with the rubbing at the spring perches and the rear spring leaf overlap. Think the bare metal isn't really difficult either IMHO its just the cost of that amount of fluid (to dip the full assembly to keep the look consistent across the part and building a tray or container to hold the items without allot of wasted space = treating fluid
Another problem for many of you guys is the poor condition of what your starting with :( No real good way of addressing pitted metal
I have a set of new take-off & nos 428 cj coil springs & the finish is different between them. .........................
Yep - Would not expect to see the same finish on an assembly line part as one designed to sit of the shelf and look pretty when you sell it to a shop or owner. Lots of painted front and rear springs in service replacement examples
Looks like the restoration "cottage industry" is continuing efforts to bring us more and more good reproductions
Happy Turkey day
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Hi all
Happy thanksgiving from a first timer to post on this site.
I am restoring a Cougar Eliminator. Can someone tell me the stripe colors for the front springs for a 428 cj with air conditioning?
Can anyone tell me where I can get a set of these springs or quality replacements?
Thanks for a great site.
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Hi all
Happy thanksgiving from a first timer to post on this site.
I am restoring a Cougar Eliminator. Can someone tell me the stripe colors for the front springs for a 428 cj with air conditioning?
Can anyone tell me where I can get a set of these springs or quality replacements?
First welcome to the site
Don't know where replacements can be had - never had to purchase any other than from a donor car.
As for strip colors you'll have to forgive me - haven't collected many buildsheets from Cougars
What transmission does you car have and what body code (91-94 or something like that) does the car have.
I've got on 69 CJ Cougar with air just want to make sure its a match ;)
Maybe Scoots got something on this also
Again welcome hope you find the information useful
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I have found that powder coating with the correct black looks great. It hides any pitting and is super durable. No more screwing up paint on putting the springs back in.
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I have found that powder coating with the correct black looks great. It hides any pitting and is super durable. No more screwing up paint on putting the springs back in.
Unfortunately powder coated springs look powder coated IMHO not a great look for a concours car. Not sure what the "correct black would be that looks like dark heat treated bare steel. maybe one of the graphites ??
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Thanks for the response.
The car is equipped with a C6 transmission and the body code is 91
Best,
brian
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Hi all
Happy thanksgiving from a first timer to post on this site.
I am restoring a Cougar Eliminator. Can someone tell me the stripe colors for the front springs for a 428 cj with air conditioning?
Can anyone tell me where I can get a set of these springs or quality replacements?
Thanks for a great site.
For a quality replacement try Detroit Eaton. They manufactuer the front coils to Ford engineeing drawing specs with the correct wire size etc.
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Thanks for the response.
The car is equipped with a C6 transmission and the body code is 91
1 Violet and 1 Brown stripe
As usual applied to the spring when it was out of the car either sitting on its side or upside down (from how it was installed) - this is important if there are any runs - so they travel the original direction. Typically applied with a 1/2" wide semi dry brush. And it appears IMHO that they were painted from the top down (out of the car top ;)
While we're at it I find it nice to place a rag or towel inside to catch the splatter from the brush passing from one coil to another since I've never found the splatter on originals and don't want to add that detail to the restored ones ;)
Hope this helps and again welcome to the site
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Thanks both Bob and Jeff
I greatly appreciate the help.
Regards,
Brian
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Is the brown stripe a light brown (tan) or dark. Any photo or testers color would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for the help.
Brian
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Is the brown stripe a light brown (tan) or dark. Any photo or testers color would be greatly appreciated.
The brown would be a medium mud brown not a lighter tan (they used TAN for that color ;)
If your using the little bottles of model paint your going to need a number of them - it will take a bottle for each stripe I would guess - don't want to run out :-[ half way through the project
Below is an example of what the suppliers of the springs were using as brown (two leftmost stripes) Please ignore the paint on the side of the leaf - just overspray from a repaint of the car. And yes wish it was a clearer picture but you can still see the tone of brown for your purposes
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/Paint%20Marks/suspension/Untitled-1_zpsdaedd7a5.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/Paint%20Marks/suspension/Untitled-1_zpsdaedd7a5.jpg.html)
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Hi Jeff, I cleaned mine in evaporust recently, here is a photo which show some splatter present.
(http://www.andrewsmach1.com/myphotos/ccmustang/springs/frontspringstripes.jpg)
(http://www.andrewsmach1.com/myphotos/ccmustang/springs/frontspringstripesenl.jpg)
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Hi Jeff, I cleaned mine in evaporust recently, here is a photo which show some splatter present.
Yes yours looks like there was a little splatter of at least on of the colors. Must say that overall I'm surprised that there wasn't more splatter or drips everywhere ;)
Thanks for sharing
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Still on the topic of spring finish, are there any differences for a dearborn 10/68
set of 428 springs?
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Still on the topic of spring finish, are there any differences for a dearborn 10/68
set of 428 springs?
The finish of the springs were pretty consistent IMHO through the years - heat treated steel/iron
Paint markings to indicate application differed of course
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I had been under the mistaken impression that front springs were painted black. So it sounds like my Oct 69 Dearborn CJ Mach 1 would have had the heat-treated bare steel as well? If so is the "cold" gun bluing a possible way to protect the metal and produce a replica of the darker finish? Thanks!
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I had been under the mistaken impression that front springs were painted black. So it sounds like my Oct 69 Dearborn CJ Mach 1 would have had the heat-treated bare steel as well? If so is the "cold" gun bluing a possible way to protect the metal and produce a replica of the darker finish? Thanks!
Workers have described unpainted "phosphate colored" front springs. Never yet been able to find an original set where the finish would bubble and flake off (such as it would with paint) from an application of paint stripper. Though many of the organizations still allow "painted black" for some classes (as well as unpainted) I feel real comfortable with the idea than none of them were originally at the plant - NOS and service replacements were often painted to maintain a rust free condition while in storage
Gun bluing will not provide a rust protective - the follow up oil treatment is for that but it will provide (as well as a couple of other products) the dark heat treated look or you can use light coats paint (I've use phosphate - then interior charcoal - then oil in the past) both with success. Though it can be a challenge to get a consistent tone using the gun bluing unless you get a vat of the stuff to dip the complete piece in and work it fast from one end to the other
Hope this helps
BTW in response (mine) #6 the first and last example in the pictures are painted while #2 is original and #3 is gun blued
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I put my springs in Evaporust today and once cleaned they have 3 stripes on them. 2 Light blue and one brown. Has anyone else seen three stripes on front springs?
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I put my springs in Evaporust today and once cleaned they have 3 stripes on them. 2 Light blue and one brown. Has anyone else seen three stripes on front springs?
Not on any Mustang or Cougar yet from the classic period that I can find other than when one stripe is a (typically) sprayed over/under white stripe . You might just have an odd set where the stripper added an extra one.
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I believe they are original to the car. the entire front end seems original. Does having the photos of the car and springs enough documentation to restore this way even if odd set? I think I should restore what I find? Thouhgts
Thanks
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You have A/C springs & they are different than non A/C regular springs
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I believe they are original to the car. the entire front end seems original. Does having the photos of the car and springs enough documentation to restore this way even if odd set?
Yes documentation especially where non other exists is important and can be enough (always depends on the judge ;)
I think I should restore what I find? Thouhgts
Yes since there may have been a change in the markings between the time your car was built and when the car in my example was built IMHO
I would also find a place on the springs were the paint is the thickest, cut or sand through the top layer and wet it again (WD40 works well) to see if the color your seeing the light blue or could be the lavender I found on the build sheet for sure ;) Taking pictures again of course
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Thanks for the response. Did the factory ever put spacers on springs for the a/c cars like my photo shows? I thought they were aftermarket and why I questioned where to purchase replacements in an earlier post. Maybe time to move to different section but how do you check tolerances on front coil springs?
Regards,
Brian
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7515.0;attach=10664;image
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Thanks for the response. Did the factory ever put spacers on springs for the a/c cars like my photo shows? I thought they were aftermarket and why I questioned where to purchase replacements in an earlier post. Maybe time to move to different section but how do you check tolerances on front coil springs?
Regards,
Brian
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7515.0;attach=10664;image
Brian,no spacers from the factory that is what the different spec coils for a specific application and options are for. usually ride height . The shop manual and or body aseemblyline manual will should have a spec. Of course some people like them lowered in the front so it can be a matter of personal taste unless a issue of bottoming out on bumps or wide tires rubbing in corners which maybe why a PO added them to your car.
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thanks for the response Bob,
that's what I thought about the spacers.
Anyone have suggestions on how to check springs to see if they are within factory tolerance? measurements, compression test , etc? they seem fine but I am concerned about why the PO used the spacers. I called Eaton and they don't make a springs for a 428 with A/C.
Appreciate any feedback
Brian
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Brian I would use your OE springs over as PO may have installed spacers for tire clearance with all the weight options on your front end.. 69 cougars never had rolled lip fenders like the mustangs for 15x7'' wheels & f-60-15 tires & many cougars use the wheel lip mouldings making tire clearance worse. Back in early 70s it was kool to put big wheels & tires on your ride. I had my 68 charger jacked up all the way around g-60-15s on front & M/T L=60-15s on back on a car that was designed for e-70-14 tires & THOUGHT I was KOOL until 1 month later had to take car back to shop & rebuild the suspension!! In my early post on spring finish this is an issue that needs improved on & someone needs to come upwith a correct method or system to duplicate both front & rear spring finish to sell to restorers of all makes since this is a common mistake done on many restorations I see & a lot of trouble & labor to have to take car back apart to correct the finish.
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I restored the front springs on my '67 by soaking them for about a month in big Rubbermaid tub filled with old, used, oily Evaporust. After that, I washed them with soap and water, wiped them down with acetone, and then applied Testors gold and yellow model paints to replicate the stripes (I have since found that Americana brand acrylic paints sold at Michael's craft stores work much better for replicating paint markings - and they are lot less expensive as well).
Finally, I warmed up the springs in our kitchen oven and applied a liberal coating of RPM (Rust Prevention Magic) that is sold by NPD and other Mustang parts suppliers...
So far the only issue encountered was during the re-installation of the springs. RPM leaves a slightly waxy finish on the parts, and the spring compressor kept slipping - but it's been about a year since I treated them, and there's no rust on the springs. It will be interesting to see how well the RPM holds up over the long run...
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I know this is an old thread but I am soaking my front springs now. My Mach 1 is an early(10-02-68) "M"-code non-air Metuchen car. My front springs have 3 colors, and I rely on someone else's eyes, I'm colorblind, but I think they are white-yellow-beige. Is that correct do you think. The suspension is original.
Thanks
Bill
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I know this is an old thread but I am soaking my front springs now. My Mach 1 is an early(10-02-68) "M"-code non-air Metuchen car. My front springs have 3 colors, and I rely on someone else's eyes, I'm colorblind, but I think they are white-yellow-beige. Is that correct do you think. The suspension is original.
Hi Bill
The yellow and beige would have been the spring identifiers and the white (as mentioned in other threads and this one I think) was the over/under indicator mark. That was was separate and applied differently that the other two
What transmission and if it had P/S?
Looking at buildsheets I find the Yellow & Tan one of two front springs installed on M and H code Mach I's that year
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OK I read about the white but didn't quite understand.
It has a close ratio 4-speed, power steering and brakes, and trac-lok 3.25.
Bill
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OK I read about the white but didn't quite understand.
It has a close ratio 4-speed, power steering and brakes, and trac-lok 3.25.
For the white stripes. From our understanding from someone involved. Each spring was tested to see if ti fell within a required range for the spring being made. IF the spring fell short - just outside the limits it was marked with a white stripe. The difference was not too great to scapp the spring but just not within the range. Once they got to the car assembly line the worker would grab two "matching springs" (2 with out stripes or 2 with stripes ) and install them on a car.
We never got confirmation if the white stripe meant over or under the spring range would guess it was under.
You cars specs seem to match some of the buildsheets I have with those front springs Thanks for sharing the pictures
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Thank you Jeff this all makes much more sense now.
I am curious about something else that relates to the firewall cut out, where should I post that?
Thank you
Bill
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Thank you Jeff this all makes much more sense now.
I am curious about something else that relates to the firewall cut out, where should I post that?
Thank you
Bill
Guessing that it will be a year specific detail so place it in that section 65-66, 67-68. 69-70, 71-3..........
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I Know this is an old thread, but I really like the pictures from paperback writer on 12-12-13. I like how the spring finish turned out! Wonder how the springs look today?
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well that would depend on how they have been maintained.