ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1966 Mustang => Topic started by: Morsel on February 19, 2017, 04:57:52 PM
-
Hey all, wondering if anyone knows where to get a J-Hook that works with a steel style wheel spare. The normal hold down J-Hook bolt isn't long enough and need one that's longer to complete my trunk. I got one from AMK that seemed long enough, but the thread sizes was to narrow and didn't fit my spare tire nut, it was too loose.
Also, if anyone has an original, that would be cool too, cool always get it re-plated
Thanks,
Jason
-
Just replaced mine as a kit. Im not familiar of there being a longer size. I do know that if you don't have the tire placed just right in the trunk the hook won't fit correctly. This is a picture of mine installed. There is still a good amount of thread left above the nut. Unless you have wheels with a different backspacing other than stock it should fit. Im mostly familiar with 64-66. Posting year of your car may help others..
-
Just replaced mine as a kit. Im not familiar of there being a longer size. I do know that if you don't have the tire placed just right in the trunk the hook won't fit correctly. This is a picture of mine installed. There is still a good amount of thread left above the nut. Unless you have wheels with a different backspacing other than stock it should fit. Im mostly familiar with 64-66. Posting year of your car may help others..
Yes, the steel styled wheel spare requires a longer J-Hook, the rim in your photo is a regular spare tire rim, which the center is about 3 to 4 inches lower than the steel style wheel rim once placed in the trunk in the proper spot directly above the j-hook bracket, especially in a fastback where the spare tire has to be in a specific location based on the trap door kick stand. See attached photo for reference...
Thanks for replying though,
Jason
-
Jason, could the wing nut be a 68 and later which used a larger thread size? Paul
-
Jason, could the wing nut be a 68 and later which used a larger thread size? Paul
I thought that at first as well, but the J-Hook I got from AMK was very thin (it's 5/16-18 x 9 1/2 - See screen shot) The chart I attached as well shows the real thread size and length which for 66 is 3/8-18 x 9 1/2. The wing nut I have looks original and also fits the standard "scott drake" one I got for 65-67 J-Hook... it also fits my original J-Hook as well, so I'm at a loss... I'm wondering what other people have used that have a steel styled wheel as a spare?
Virginia Classic Mustang used to carry the specific one, but they're on backorder or something... http://www.virginiaclassicmustang.com/65-66-STYLED-STEEL-WHEEL-SPARE-MOUNTING-BOLT-9-12-P4630.aspx
Anyway, if anyone one else has info, that would be great.
Thanks,
Jason
-
Try Texas Mustang Parts http://texasmustang.com/ . I bought a couple of Style Steel Wheel J-Bolts from them about 15 years ago. They have one listed on their website, but without part (stock) number or dimensions. The ones I got were under stock number - C5RR-1448-D.
Jim
-
I thought that at first as well, but the J-Hook I got from AMK was very thin (it's 5/16-18 x 9 1/2 - See screen shot) The chart I attached as well shows the real thread size and length which for 66 is 3/8-18 x 9 1/2. The wing nut I have looks original and also fits the standard "scott drake" one I got for 65-67 J-Hook... it also fits my original J-Hook as well, so I'm at a loss... I'm wondering what other people have used that have a steel styled wheel as a spare?
Virginia Classic Mustang used to carry the specific one, but they're on backorder or something... http://www.virginiaclassicmustang.com/65-66-STYLED-STEEL-WHEEL-SPARE-MOUNTING-BOLT-9-12-P4630.aspx
Anyway, if anyone one else has info, that would be great.
Thanks,
Jason
Jason,
As your chart shows, the original size is 3/8-18, so that 5/16 one is too small. We had the longer one for the style steel wheel for years. When we recently re-ordered them, the supplier had discontinued them. We are hoping to find another supplier.
BTW, the one for the '68 and up model is 7/16.
-
This got me curious. Why bother to change this rod for 1/2"? When you look at the MPC page shown above you can see that the Ford listings are a little weird. 65 shows two listings but no explanation of where to use either. The 66 shows standard versus styled steel. Back to the 65 listing the second part C6OZ is a replacement part.
So what did it replace? I reached out to a friend who has older parts books than I do. The 65 model year parts book does not have any listings for Mustang. The 66 book has the following info...
** Warning - His books are not close by so I cannot post images of them **. Replacement numbers per the OSI vol 3-5 Jan 1996 fiche.
66 standard wheel:
C6ZZ-1448-A, 3/8"-16 x 9 1/16", 2 1/2" thread. This was replaced with the
C4SZ-1448-B, Dimensions not yet found. This was then replaced with the
C6OZ-1448-A, 3/8"-16 x 9", 3 1/4" thread
66 Styled steel wheel:
C6ZZ-1448-B, 3/8"-16 x 10 9/16", 2 1/2" thread. This was replaced with the
C5AZ-1448-D, 3/8"-16 x 9 1/2", 2 1/2" thread.
I cannot remember ever seeing a 10 9/16" long bolt in a 66. Anyone have an original?
I have a line on a 9 1/4 long bolt but the thread length is 3 3/4".
Regards,
Scott
-
I notice that two different Mustang items suppliers are commenting on this J-Bolt. Thanks guys. And if I may, could you both work together to develop a source for it?
Jim
-
For any input on a 67 Styled steel J-bolt, I can measure mine and photograph if needed.
-
I notice that two different Mustang items suppliers are commenting on this J-Bolt. Thanks guys. And if I may, could you both work together to develop a source for it?
Jim
Jim,
I have three sources right now that can make the bolt. I'm sure Brant could come with as many. The question is...What is correct? Without proof or a consensus on what is the correct length for each application I'm not going to crank out 500 or 1000 pieces that might turn out to be wrong! There is enough of that going on already. I'll bet Brant feels the same.
What we do not know is when the part numbers were superseded. It's possible that 10 9/16" bolt was designed but never used or only used for a short period. I haven't measured the available space yet but that length seems pretty long for its purpose. Without the Ford blueprints I'd need an original sample to work from.
Regards,
Scott
-
Not to add confusion to this already interesting mystery, but do you think the longer C6ZZ-1448-B (10 9/16 length) steel style wheel J-Hook could be because of fastback verses coup trunk. I've noticed that because of the Fastback kickstand on the trap door that it sort of either pushes the tire in towards more of the the center of the trunk out of line with the J-Hook bracket, or it sits up higher because it sits up on the bumper indentation on the rear inside of the trunk? I can't get my spare to sit down flat on the normal place and lineup with the bracket because of this.
It's just seems if it's really on a 1/2 inch longer than the standard J-Hook, that it's still not going to reach where mine is landing... oh, and my bracket has not moved, it's in the original location and is original.
Or am I just muddying the water more with this comment ;)
I'm thinking about purchasing this one they are offering at Texas Mustangs, when I get it I can take a measurement and see if it works for my application, cheap to try out at least... http://texasmustang.com/1965-1967-spare-tire-mounting-bolt-10582.html
Thanks,
Jason
-
Thanks for the input, Scott. Honestly, I have probably always just gone by the MPC these past 35+ years, even when the only source for the bolts was Ford.
The currently available 65-66 "standard" bolt is about 7 1/4" long. I don't know how it compares to an original assembly line piece, but it fits perfectly. I happen to have just installed one in a car.
Now the MPC always listed the 65-66 standard bolt as being the same as a '67 SS wheel bolt. Maybe someone can verify this.
The old NOS Ford part that I have here supposedly for a 65-66 SS wheel measures 9 5/8". It's comparable to the reproduction that we did have, and I think it fits fine, but I haven't verified that lately.
I also just found some 9 1/2" ones that will be in here by the end of the week. I'll update the web site when they arrive.
-
Thanks for the input, Scott. Honestly, I have probably always just gone by the MPC these past 35+ years, even when the only source for the bolts was Ford.
The currently available 65-66 "standard" bolt is about 7 1/4" long. I don't know how it compares to an original assembly line piece, but it fits perfectly. I happen to have just installed one in a car.
Now the MPC always listed the 65-66 standard bolt as being the same as a '67 SS wheel bolt. Maybe someone can verify this.
The old NOS Ford part that I have here supposedly for a 65-66 SS wheel measures 9 5/8". It's comparable to the reproduction that we did have, and I think it fits fine, but I haven't verified that lately.
I also just found some 9 1/2" ones that will be in here by the end of the week. I'll update the web site when they arrive.
This would be great, I'd love to purchase one from you when you get them and see if it works... have you installed them in any of you fastback and had any of the issues with the spare placement that I spoke about with the kickstand in the above message?
as always, thanks...
Jason
-
This would be great, I'd love to purchase one from you when you get them and see if it works... have you installed them in any of you fastback and had any of the issues with the spare placement that I spoke about with the kickstand in the above message?
as always, thanks...
Jason
Jason,
Well, it's always a tight fit in a fastback, but usually a 6.95/14 tire will fit. I guess there could be an issue though depending on the brand of tire, since some reproduction brands seem to be taller than others.
-
Got a call from Richard Porter this morning. He is going to lend me his originals which measure exactly the same as the C6ZZ numbers I listed previously. The interesting thing about the SS wheel version is that it is VERY close to a 69-70 Shelby space saver version we already have. I've contacted that supplier for a quote on the revised version.
Brant: Yes the Drake C6OZ is short but works. If you look at it's dimensions it puts it very close to the original 67 standard wheel bolt C7SZ-1448-A that was 7" OAL x 4" thread length.
The 67 Styled steel wheel should use the C6OZ-1448-A at 9" OAL x 3 1/4" thread. Can anyone confirm this from an original??
Now we should start another thread on the correct style of wing nut for 65-67.
Regards,
Scott
-
So my buddy who has a Mustang parts and restoration shop here in the bay area who basically holds onto everything he pulls out of cars sent me this photo of one he's pretty sure came out of 66 with a SS spare. It measures roughly 9 1/4 in length. I thought one way to determine if this is truly a 66 is not only by thread size, but by the actual wing nut. Or is this a 67?
Thanks,
Jason
-
Two years ago I attended a judging seminar at Bob Perkins restorations in Juneau, WI. One of my purposes for going was to look over the low mileage 1965,66 and 67 unrestored Mustangs that were on display. I can say this, they all had the spare tire hold down wing nut where the ears came up and bent out 90 degrees. This doesn't mean that Ford didn't use something other than this. The B9AZ 1462-A indicates that Ford started using this wing nut in 1959. We had a spirited conversation about this topic some time ago and about that time someone posted a box of the wing nuts on E-BAY for sale with the above part # that looked just like what I've described.
-
Two years ago I attended a judging seminar at Bob Perkins restorations in Juneau, WI. One of my purposes for going was to look over the low mileage 1965,66 and 67 unrestored Mustangs that were on display. I can say this, they all had the spare tire hold down wing nut where the ears came up and bent out 90 degrees. This doesn't mean that Ford didn't use something other than this. The B9AZ 1462-A indicates that Ford started using this wing nut in 1959. We had a spirited conversation about this topic some time ago and about that time someone posted a box of the wing nuts on E-BAY for sale with the above part # that looked just like what I've described.
Richard P. - So in you're opinion from looking at Perkins car, this wing nut would be the correct style(see attached image)?
Thanks,
Jason
-
Attached is what I currently have on my "K" Fastback. The J-Bolt is 3/8-16X9 1/8 overall, 3 5/8 thread length. The plate is the correct one for a Style Steel Wheel, C5ZB-1424-A, 4 inch dia.
Well, it's always a tight fit in a fastback, but usually a 6.95/14 tire will fit. I guess there could be an issue though depending on the brand of tire, since some reproduction brands seem to be taller than others.
My spare is the original Dual Red Line "Super Safety 800 XP" identified by the smooth edge to the tread, not scalloped. It is mounded on a factory Style Steel Wheel and has never been on the ground. The J-Bolt, the one pictured, is adequate - it works. I think it was purchased about 15 years ago. And yes, the fit is tight.
Jim
-
Richard P. - So in you're opinion from looking at Perkins car, this wing nut would be the correct style(see attached image)?
I get used spare tire wing nut from junked cars, mostly San Jose, and replate them. They don't have the exaggerated downward tips on the ends of the wings. They look like the wing nut in post 16.
Jim
-
I found anther bolt and it appears to have some differences in the manufacturing process. Notice the tooling mark on the sharp bend, the
different angles and finish.
Just for reference, I believe that these are C6OZ-1448-A, the service replacements.
Jim
-
Jason the wing nut that you have pictured on reply # 18 is like what I saw at Bob Perkins. The color is also correct. It's not a shiny almost chrome or bright zinc. It's also what I've found on the many cars that I've inspected.
-
Attached is what I currently have on my "K" Fastback. The J-Bolt is 3/8-16X9 1/8 overall, 3 5/8 thread length. The plate is the correct one for a Style Steel Wheel, C5ZB-1424-A, 4 inch dia. My spare is the original Dual Red Line "Super Safety 800 XP" identified by the smooth edge to the tread, not scalloped. It is mounded on a factory Style Steel Wheel and has never been on the ground. The J-Bolt, the one pictured, is adequate - it works. I think it was purchased about 15 years ago. And yes, the fit is tight.
Jim
Richard P. - So in you're opinion from looking at Perkins car, this wing nut would be the correct style(see attached image)?
Thanks,
Jason
Attached is what I currently have on my "K" Fastback. The J-Bolt is 3/8-16X9 1/8 overall, 3 5/8 thread length. The plate is the correct one for a Style Steel Wheel, C5ZB-1424-A, 4 inch dia. My spare is the original Dual Red Line "Super Safety 800 XP" identified by the smooth edge to the tread, not scalloped. It is mounded on a factory Style Steel Wheel and has never been on the ground. The J-Bolt, the one pictured, is adequate - it works. I think it was purchased about 15 years ago. And yes, the fit is tight.
Jim
[/quote
]
I maybe wrong but I thought the spare tire plate for a Mustang with style steel wheels was 3-1/16" in diameter with three alignment tabs that go inside the center hole. My book doesn't list any information about the style steel wheel plates for 1965/66 but does list Plate Spare Wheel mounting part# C5ZZ 1424-A 4"O.D.-3 tabs. I don't think that the standard wheel plate will fit inside a style steel wheel. It is also my understanding that the original bias ply Dual Red Tires 695X14 were made by US Royal.
-
See my response above. I don't know how it ended up that way.
-
OK, so digging further, I remembered about Bob Perkins 3800 mile 1966 K-Code automatic Fastback. I remembered there was a bunch of pictures in the article (http://www.mustangandfords.com/featured-vehicles/mump-1005-1966-ford-mustang-fastback/).
See attached picture of his trunk and spare tire with SS wheel. Notice the wing nut and j-hook. Now we know he did some work on this specific car, a sort of "refresh"... so I wonder if he replaced it or if that's original. To me it looks like the j-hook is pretty long sticking out from the wing nut, and notice the wing nut itself, it's more like the style of the additional attachment of the "NOS" wing nuts that I found a picture of.
Also for fun, notice he has the correct smaller plate for the SS wheel, but it's upside down, the tabs are supposed to point down into center hole of the spare aren't they?
So the question is, is this one of those parts he "refreshed" or is it original to a 66 car with a SS wheel spare...
Thanks,
Jason
-
When I saw this car the wing nut looked like the one pictured in reply #18. I'd like to see that wing nut turned a bit. I examined this car very close.
-
When I saw this car the wing nut looked like the one pictured in reply #18. I'd like to see that wing nut turned a bit. I examined this car very close.
Sounds like one of those "refresh parts" if you saw it and it had the duller finish one originally. Notice in the Perkins picture even though it's sideways the round end, it doesn't have that little tip pointing down like in that photo I posted... it's rounded and smooth... here's another angle on that one I originally posted that shows the tips...
J
-
- I remembered about Bob Perkins 3800 mile 1966 K-Code automatic Fastback.
See attached picture of his trunk and spare tire with SS wheel. Notice the wing nut and j-hook.
The wing nut and J-Bolt look to be cad plated.
Also for fun, notice he has the correct smaller plate for the SS wheel, but it's upside down, the tabs are supposed to point down into center hole of the spare aren't they?
That's the regular spare wheel plate upside down because its three "prongs" won't fit a Style Steel Wheel center. Some cars got a regular plate. Note the edge on the spare missing the scalloped transition from sidewall to tread.
Jim
-
I have found at least 6 variations of the B9AZ-1462-A wing nut.
Image 1 shows a collection of NOS Ford wing nuts I have accumulated that I believe date to the 60's.
Image 2 from the collection 65 Dearborn 200 1700 miles
Image 3 from the collection 66 GT350 19800 miles
Image 4 from the collection 67 Dearborn 390 forgot how few miles it has.
Image 5 shows one of the NOS styles next to the current reproduction.
The current repro is a spitting image of the 68-up wing nut. My current theory is that this that Ford introduced this style at the same time as the larger 68-up wing nut with the only difference being the threaded hole size. It would make the service part cheaper to make.
Regards,
Scott
-
The last one repo really jets up in the air at a 45 degree angle and the color is way different from the rest. This one is more akin to the 1968 Mustang except it normally has a 7/16 stud. I agree with you. The others wing nuts I could live with.
-
Had to call my dad for this one. This is a 1977 image of his '66 Metuchen convertible. At that time the car was unrestored and very original with 24,000 miles.
The third image is one I got from Mike Murray on his August 64 coupe.
Dispels the idea of the current repro nut with sharply angled wings being wrong.
Regards,
Scott
-
Thanks Scott for sharing your information.
Matt
-
These are a couple of current pictures of my spare, the J-Bolt exposed end, the wing nut and spare. The spare is the original Uniroyal Dual Red Line wheel on the original Style Steel Wheel and has never been used.
Jim
-
These are a couple of current pictures of my spare, the J-Bolt exposed end, the wing nut and spare. The spare is the original Uniroyal Dual Red Line wheel on the original Style Steel Wheel and has never been used.
Jim
Could I ask you to pull the hook and photograph it next to a ruler?
Regards,
Scott
-
Could I ask you to pull the hook and photograph it next to a ruler?
Scott,
As requested. Overall length - 9 1/8 inches; thread length - 3 5/8 inches.
Jim
About the pigtail?
-
Scott I'm going to send you a wing nut for comparison to Mike Murray's 1964 original wing nut pictured and the repo that's pictured. I did this comparison at home and there are distinct differences in the original verse the reproduction. Mike Murray's and the one I'm sending look alike based on what I see in the picture posted. Put the one I'm sending next to the reproduction compare and take measurements. There is no need to return the one I'm sending because the 3/8" threads are stripped and it is not usable. I have another here that is exactly like what I'm sending that is usable. Ford may have used more than one wing nut from 1959 to 1967 but the reproductions that I've seen don't match up IMOP. I know that you're trying to get this correct.
-
For any input on a 67 Styled steel J-bolt, I can measure mine and photograph if needed.
This is what came in my SJ 67's trunk, holding down a styled steel wheel when I bought the car in '78. I would say the car was in what we now call "survivor" condition. Everything pretty much was untouched in the day. It also had the correct jack and early lug wrench, I've always considered them original to the car and never replaced them.
Measurements are much the same as what Jim has pictures for his 66
Also Matches the measurements shown of the MPC listing for a 67 with Styled Steel Wheels. Interesting that the MPC calls it as the same J-bolt as a 66 with Standard wheels. C6OZ-1448-A
-
Good grief! It seems like any vacuum cleaner salesman that showed up at Ford's door was allowed to provide spare tire hooks and nuts!!
-
God grief! It seems like any vacuum cleaner salesman that showed up at Ford's door was allowed to provide spare tire hooks and nuts!!
It's the "American" way.
Actually, it's Ford engineering. No matter how hard upper management tried to standardize, Ford engineering found a way to evade that type of edict and designed and used what they wanted. It took the dealer service group to consolidate parts.
Jim
-
God grief! It seems like any vacuum cleaner salesman that showed up at Ford's door was allowed to provide spare tire hooks and nuts!!
Another discussion about scissors jacks mentions multiple providers for those. I wouldn't be surprised if the assemblyline looked at the "J" bolts & wingnuts the same way. (short, longer and longest in bin#1, bin#2 and bin#3), if one ran out, use the next one that worked till restocked) No rhyme or reason...Quality hasn't always been "Job-1"