ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Body, Paint & Sealers => Topic started by: 67gtasanjose on June 12, 2019, 08:46:13 AM
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Yesterday, I tried to obtain a quart and was told it is no longer offered, even in gallons. I find this odd. I did a quick online search and pretty much found NOTHING available!
Am I blind?
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No. You are a victim of an anti-pollution agenda to save the world. I went thru a similar scenario last week in trying to find a wood stain to match the existing color of cabinets for a new one I'm building. The local Home Depot did not carry that shade never mind any stain that's oil based in my state. They will not ship any oil based paint or stain to about 15 states, mine included. The same restrictions apply to many chemicals. There are "exceptions". Keep searching. I used to get auto paint from Idaho. A friend got his Shelby painted in Utah for those same reasons.
Soap box out.
Jim
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Pretty pricey even when you find it Richard...you may have already seen this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PPG-DP74-Epoxy-Primer-New-Kit-with-Catalyst/293119149245?hash=item443f4344bd:g:KOgAAOSwEftaqafQ
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Pretty pricey even when you find it Richard...you may have already seen this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PPG-DP74-Epoxy-Primer-New-Kit-with-Catalyst/293119149245?hash=item443f4344bd:g:KOgAAOSwEftaqafQ
The going rate, shipping can be extra like that. I paid that much a few years ago, got it from my local PPG store. Today, I needed just a quart. I bought grey instead. I will live with it.
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Are you aware of Southern Polyurethane Industries? The PPG DP74 changed color when it went to LF (IIRC there's even an old thread that talks about this). The owner of SPI formulated a 2K epoxy primer in red oxide specifically to try to color match the Ford factory color. It's reasonably priced, great tech support and ships quickly. I've used several of their products (including their epoxy primers), and have been extremely pleased with the results.
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Pretty pricey even when you find it Richard...you may have already seen this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PPG-DP74-Epoxy-Primer-New-Kit-with-Catalyst/293119149245?hash=item443f4344bd:g:KOgAAOSwEftaqafQ
Yes...
The seller also realized the unavailability of the red oxide epoxy primer so has since bumped the price to $290+the ride (up $40 from the previous price).
Are you aware of Southern Polyurethane Industries? The PPG DP74 changed color when it went to LF (IIRC there's even an old thread that talks about this). The owner of SPI formulated a 2K epoxy primer in red oxide specifically to try to color match the Ford factory color. It's reasonably priced, great tech support and ships quickly. I've used several of their products (including their epoxy primers), and have been extremely pleased with the results.
Yes, it would appear like a substitution product will be required for our restoration work.
Maybe we can come to a consensus of a good alternative red oxide epoxy product that simulates what was used originally that is "compliant" an hopefully available for years to come.
ON EDIT:
nothing new under the sun: http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=2278.15
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Yes, it would appear like a substitution product will be required for our restoration work.
Maybe we can come to a consensus of a good alternative red oxide epoxy product that simulates what was used originally that is "compliant" an hopefully available for years to come.
ON EDIT:
nothing new under the sun: http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=2278.15
+1 PPG product though used out of the can by some and in some situations but its always IMHO needed some tinting to get to match most of the variations used at different plants and years.
We should also keep an eye out for long term applications and chalking that has been observed on the surface of some of these products. Never figured out why or what is the cause but have seen dozens of cars where patches get a white crusty coat on the surface over the last 20 or so years.
Hated to see the original DP74 changed and now the lead free version. Did put away some of both versions for later use and they appear to be OK at this point
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I just bought a quart of DP74LF from my local Keystone Automotive store two weeks ago. It wasnt cheap but it was a new can. I also bought some activator, DP401LF and black primer DP90LF at the same time. Mixed and shot the back side of some NOS sheet metal for that 'factory-fresh look'.
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I just bought a quart of DP74LF from my local Keystone Automotive store two weeks ago. It wasnt cheap but it was a new can. I also bought some activator, DP401LF and black primer DP90LF at the same time. Mixed and shot the back side of some NOS sheet metal for that 'factory-fresh look'.
Just thought I'd chime in for my first post. I'm one of the Product Managers at LKQ's corporate HQ, so I asked the PM who handles our Paint/Body Equipment product lines if he knew anything, and his guy at PPG said it was active/not going anywhere. We don't keep it at every Keystone location, but it can still be ordered/transferred in. Obviously things can change, but that's the info I have as of today from as close to the source as I can get. Was worth my asking, because I figured if it was going away I'd better get some to stash for my '67 convertible when I get it to the point of needing it.
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Yes I just ordered some & got it today.
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A number of months ago I tested Rustoleum "2X Ultra Cover Flat Red Primer" on the wheel lip area that had been sprayed with DP (no tint). I can't tell now where I tested it.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=17624.0;attach=44765;image)
I recently did the back of a valance with this Rustoleum spray can. See pic below.
If you already have a light gray 2K sealer on the surface, like in this example, it looks very convincing. Note! The paint here is still wet!
Cover with a clear if you want it to be durable. Of course test all paints on test articles first.
Do note this is not on my signature car but on another valance.
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A number of months ago I tested Rustoleum "2X Ultra Cover Flat Red Primer" on the wheel lip area that had been sprayed with DP (no tint). I can't tell now where I tested it.
Used it many times before for other projects but would not use it as a final coat and for many of my purposes it is way too flat a finished look IMHO
Just my experience
Thanks to others letting us know the availability of the DP74LF :)
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I recently purchased several different spray cans of varied spray paint to find a color match for the the undercarriage restoration of my '66 driver coupe. I found Krylon All-In-One "Satin Brick" (#2733) to be what appears to be a pretty close match IMHO. The can offers "any angle" spray valve which was most helpful for undercarriage spraying. It took three cans for each coat of paint on the undercarriage (Lowe's $4.98 per can). I put two coats on my undercarriage. The sample picture below appears a little more red than actual. The actual color is a little more red than the background sample in the spray can picture but not quite as red as my sample picture. I think the satin finish is consistent with the original finish.
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I recently purchased several different spray cans of varied spray paint to find a color match for the the undercarriage restoration of my '66 driver coupe. I found Krylon All-In-One "Satin Brick" (#2733) to be what appears to be a pretty close match IMHO. .............
Not sure that I agree that the color is the same as the floor colors used on 65-66 San Jose cars. I have a case of it and use it for decorative iron work around the house. Its very flat in final finish also not something I have found on original cars or on floor samples I have sections of here at home
Since its not an epoxy base I might be concerned about it holding up well over time and especially concerned about the product chalking (areas where the surface becomes a flat white look) that we sometimes see on floor pans after a few years. Think its a reaction to humidity/moisture. Wish now that I would have snapped some pictures from one of the cars we've judged/viewed that had the issue. Recall one that we used for a judging class that had been restored 5 years earlier and they were puzzles about what had happened since the car was stored in a controlled environment in Utah. The metal work around the house shows this affect but in a limited amount but I recoat once every year or two.
Just sharing an opinion and experiences so that other can make a informed decision
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Jeff S.-
With all due respect, I was just trying to offer other restorers an option to spray gun applied DP74LF which seems to be getting difficult to find and increasingly expensive for some reason.
Interesting that your experience with the finish of Krylon Fusion "Brick Satin" is "very flat." Your "very flat" description sounds like ruddy brown primer which is more brown and very flat. The Kryon "Brick Satin" I used has cured out now for about 3 weeks and actually has a slightly higher gloss than I would have expected from a "satin" finish. The picture I included does illustrate the cured gloss level. And, my experience with both Krylon and Rustoleum premium spray paints (non epoxy) is that it holds up very well over time as long as the surface is properly prepared (cleaned and bare metal primed). I have a wrought iron fence I spray painted with Rustoleum Brown semi-gloss (non-epoxy) 12 years ago. The section that is exposed to (Houston) sunlight (UV) has faded slightly but the section that is under cover and not exposed to direct UV looks like the day after I applied it. I haven't experienced any chalking. Given the undercarriage isn't exposed to direct UV (yes some does reflect off the pavement) - especially for restored cars that spend a lot of time inside garages, I'm not to concerned about UV exposure. Perhaps chalking that you have observed is from folks over-thinning spray gun applied paint to create the original drips on the undercarriage. If the underside of my driver coupe chalks in 5 or 10 years, I'll touch it up with some spare cans of paint I'll keep on hand. Although, I do agree a spray gun applied epoxy based paint would have better durability and resistance to chipping over time.
I am curious about what you think is off about the color. Neither color in the pictures I provided are exactly as it cured out on my car. I would agree the picture I provided of my undercarriage may appear a bit too red (I think the pic color is altered/enhanced by the camera I used). The actual color is a little less red than the undercarriage pic I provided and a little more red than the Krylon can pic background. I also understand from your excellent recent article "Restoration Support - 66 San Jose Unibody (Undercarriage)" that the color could vary in 1966 from "...reddish brown to muddy red". My newly painted undercarriage is a close match to your pictures on right at bottom of page 5 and similar to middle bottom picture on page 6 and left bottom picture on page 11 in your recent article.
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Jeff S.-
With all due respect, I was just trying to offer other restorers an option to spray gun applied DP74LF which seems to be getting difficult to find and increasingly expensive for some reason.
No problem we are just discussing the details and opinions both should help owner/builders choose which is closer to or exactly like the original finishes.
Interesting that your experience with the finish of Krylon Fusion "Brick Satin" is "very flat." Your "very flat" description sounds like ruddy brown primer which is more brown and very flat. The Kryon "Brick Satin" I used has cured out now for about 3 weeks and actually has a slightly higher gloss than I would have expected from a "satin" finish. The picture I included does illustrate the cured gloss level. And, my experience with both Krylon and Rustoleum premium spray paints (non epoxy) is that it holds up very well over time as long as the surface is properly prepared (cleaned and bare metal primed). I have a wrought iron fence ...........[/quote]
We apparently have used the paint on similar surfaces and both live in areas with allot of strong UV light exposure annually. Not really the focus of the subject since as mentioned the undercarriage does not get exposed to UV (DP74LF and other similar paints are not made for exposure) as you mention. Since I've seen the chalking on trailered, indoor stored cars I don't think that is what is leading to the affect
I am curious about what you think is off about the color. Neither color in the pictures I provided are exactly as it cured out on my car. I would agree the picture I provided of my undercarriage may appear a bit too red (I think the pic color is altered/enhanced by the camera I used). The actual color is a little less red than the undercarriage pic I provided and a little more red than the Krylon can pic background. I also understand from your excellent recent article "Restoration Support - 66 San Jose Unibody (Undercarriage)" that the color could vary in 1966 from "...reddish brown to muddy red". My newly painted undercarriage is a close match to your pictures on right at bottom of page 5 and similar to middle bottom picture on page 6 and left bottom picture on page 11 in your recent article.
As I'm sure you can agree the colors you see and display on your monitor are likely different than what I may be seeing on mine. Over the next few days I will endeavour to spray out the product you mention and show them in a picture (not to show real color just contrast) to some samples of originals I have in my floor pan sample bag. Have a good weekend.
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I know this is off the subject of paint that doesn't require a spray gun, but I used Southern Polyurethane's Red Oxide epoxy primer. I also bought a small amount of their black primer and mixed a ratio of 8-1 to get a really good match to my original color. Of course the color for others may be different.
Also, Barry who I think is the owner is very helpful. I've texted him with questions and he always gets back in a short time, even on weekends!