ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: ChrisV289 on February 03, 2011, 02:55:51 PM
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NOTE: The following thread is a composite of a number of threads all asking the same question over time.
When the brake master cylinder cap was blacked out, was the cap on the car or was it painted off the car? And if it was painted while it was on the car, wouldn't a little of the back half not be blacked out since it would be hard to get to? Just a thought I had this morning when getting ready for work...
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it is my understanding that the cap was on the master cyl when painted but that the cyl was not on the car yet.
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The master cylinder was painted as an assembly prior to installation on the car. You won't have paint under the cap and also there should be a bare ring around where the brake line attaches.
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it is my understanding that the cap was on the master cyl when painted but that the cyl was not on the car yet.
+1
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San Jose build October '64 Six Cylinder Drum brakes. Is master cylinder cap black or zinc dichromate?
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It may have been zinc dichromate (believe it was) but then painted semi-gloss black with the master cylinder before it was installed \
So the answer is both of the above ;)
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It may have been zinc dichromate (believe it was) but then painted semi-gloss black with the master cylinder before it was installed \
So the answer is both of the above ;)
+1
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Hi Everyone
How good is the Scott Drake reproduction disc brake master cylinder cap for a 66. What are the tell tale details to spot a NOS one?
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IMO the Drake parts are the best reproduction parts on the market.
The '66 cap is a natural cad finish WITH a sticker on it that is available separatly.
I haven't seen an original v/s repro compairisn so I can't answer that part.
I HAVE compaired "other" repro parts to Drake's and Drake's are far superior.
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IMO the Drake parts are the best reproduction parts on the market.
The '66 cap is a natural cad finish WITH a sticker on it that is available separately.........
Sticker was not introduced until May and IMHO we're not 100% sure that it was used on all Mustangs. Verbage is Ford and not specifically Mustang if I recall correctly and we lack many original examples ;)
Thought I should mention
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Was on the fence about the sticker. One of those hard things knowing whether it had been removed or omitted on "original" cars. Given mine is a early May mostly built in April I'll be happy to leave it off.
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Jeff.
Have you seen evidence of the sticker on the master cylinder before on a unrestored or original disk brake car. seems to me they always turn up on restored cars not unrestored.
But im guessing to would hard to retian a sticker in good/legable condition on a master cylinder with brake fluid in close contact.
Ben where you there on the weekend??? if so i must have missed you. shame would have been good to put a face to the name.
regards.
PHILL BERESFORD.
MELBOURNE.
AUSTRALIA.
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Was on the fence about the sticker. One of those hard things knowing whether it had been removed or omitted on "original" cars. Given mine is a early May mostly built in April I'll be happy to leave it off.
FYI the the cast master and zinc dichromate plated cap (gold) were typically painted black as a unit too. Many of the restored ones (and NOS caps) are unpainted.
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The gold version. Brian
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G'day Phill
Dropped by twice, but family commitments over Easter meant my Kar was one of the 50 odd spending time in the outside car park.
Was hoping to see a few more K codes, as I know of at least 4 in WA missing.
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FYI the the cast master and zinc dichromate plated cap (gold) were typically painted black as a unit too. Many of the restored ones (and NOS caps) are unpainted.
I thought the '65s were Black and the '66s were the zinc.....
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I thought the '65s were Black and the '66s were the zinc.....
Painted black as a unit (for 65-66 disc brakes) has been the expectation of Judges and the current understanding for about 10 years now if I recall history correctly
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Painted black as a unit (for 65-66 disc brakes) has been the expectation of Judges and the current understanding for about 10 years now if I recall history correctly
WOW!! Gotcha Jeff. I did not know that. my July 27th 1965 unit is painted Black-both m/c and cap. (NO decal)
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Have you seen evidence of the sticker on the master cylinder before on a unrestored or original disk brake car. seems to me they always turn up on restored cars not unrestored.
Believe (don't have a picture) that I have seen evidence on at least one cap but that was years ago. Would feel allot more comfortable if I had a pictue of what I recall. Other cars, that I feel comfortable with their originallity done show anything but of course the lack of something doesn't always prove a fact.
But also have not had any luck of finding the decal on original t-birds and Fords from the 66 May plus period
We have documents that show a change of brake fluid in 66. We have changes (if I recall correctly) of a change in caliper seals and cap gasket that may be related. Just looking for confirmation IMHO.
But im guessing to would hard to retain a sticker in good/legable condition on a master cylinder with brake fluid in close contact.
Yes part of the challenge. Most of the master cylinders have lost most or all of their original black paint so of course those would likely not have the decal also (in that period) Even looking at 67 (allot more cars since it was a greater period of time) its difficult to find many decals on those.
The search continues
WOW!! Gotcha Jeff. I did not know that. my July 27th 1965 unit is painted Black-both m/c and cap. (NO decal)
Yep - we're learning all the time. Your car isn't in the period we're discussing about the decal so your fine there
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The May 2010 issue of Mustang Monthly has a picture of a 1966 K Fastback with disc brakes owned by Bob Perkins. The article states the car has 3,800 miles. The picture of the D/B Master Cylinder Cap shows a sticker. I wonder if the decal was added later. I hope that Bob will shed some light on this as he is the MCA Head Judge for authenticity.
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Yes indeed Bob Perkins 66 k fastback does have the sticker on the disk brake cap. Did ask him about that many years at his place but never got a definative answer on the matter... Until then i will follow the belief that there was no sticker on the cap and that the cap and master cylinder was all painted black when installed.
regards.
PHILL BERESFORD.
MELBOURNE.
AUSTRALIA.
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................ belief that there was no sticker on the cap and that the cap and master cylinder was all painted black when installed.
OF course the black paint has nothing to do with decal or no decal ;)
But this is why we discuss details like this ..... to discover
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I can imagine the answer being similar to the usual questions on the correct black to use. But whats the most likely black to use and the coverage of the master cylinder and cap on a late April 66 SJ car?
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The May 2010 issue of Mustang Monthly has a picture of a 1966 K Fastback with disc brakes owned by Bob Perkins. The article states the car has 3,800 miles. The picture of the D/B Master Cylinder Cap shows a sticker. I wonder if the decal was added later. I hope that Bob will shed some light on this as he is the MCA Head Judge for authenticity.
Although low miles, this car was restored to Thoroughbred level. It's an amazing car!
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I can imagine the answer being similar to the usual questions on the correct black to use. But whats the most likely black to use and the coverage of the master cylinder and cap on a late April 66 SJ car?
As has been said before there were many different sheen paints used on various under hood components .With that said Semi gloss black is a safe bet. FYI for a authentic look (and Superior moisture protection ;) )don't forget the sound deadener/sealer around the base of the Master sealing it to the firewall. Everything coming out of the firewall was sealed this way.
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I've been given the advice that my 65 manual drum master cylinder and cap should be semi-gloss black. What paint does well on the these parts? I've thought about POR15 but would like to know what has actually worked well. The only paint I've seen dedicated for the master cylinder is the Eastwood gray. I prefer to have it the correct color.
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I've been given the advice that my 65 manual drum master cylinder and cap should be semi-gloss black. What paint does well on the these parts? I've thought about POR15 but would like to know what has actually worked well. The only paint I've seen dedicated for the master cylinder is the Eastwood gray. I prefer to have it the correct color.
Would not use POR on any restoration. INHO just about any semi-gloss black will do the job and make touch up (if needed) easy. Also consider that if everything is right your not going to be bothered by leaking and splashing of brake fluid while at the same time most/many owners use silicon based fluid in a fresh restoration.
All of these work together for an acceptable and workable solution and outcome
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I agree with Jeff. I switch every vehicle I restore, or replace the brake system in, to silicone.
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I've started using epoxy primer reduced 25%-50% (depending on ambient temp and humidity when painting as well as the level of gloss that you are trying for). It's impervious to brake fluid and other fluids and is tough as nails.
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Has anyone tried powder coating a master cylinder cap? Seems like it would be nearly impervious to brake fluid.
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Powder coating will leave the part looking like it has thick layers of paint on it. With a cast/rough service, it just won't look right.
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Powder coating will leave the part looking like it has thick layers of paint on it. With a cast/rough service, it just won't look right.
+1
Would have that "dipped in plastic " sort of look and then would it match the cap and the bail also as well as the booster if it were a power brake car?
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Has anyone tried powder coating a master cylinder cap? Seems like it would be nearly impervious to brake fluid.
Powder coating will leave the part looking like it has thick layers of paint on it. With a cast/rough service, it just won't look right.
True, and it may not screw on.
Would have that "dipped in plastic " sort of look and then would it match the cap and the bail also as well as the booster if it were a power brake car?
I believe the question was about the cap, not the reservoir. Still a no-no.
Jim
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Powder coating will leave the part looking like it has thick layers of paint on it. With a cast/rough service, it just won't look right.
he is talking about the cap only, not the cast cylinder.
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he is talking about the cap only, not the cast cylinder.
Then the coating will reduce or eliminate the printing into the metal of those later caps and not match the surrounds - other items that would have been painted at the same time originally with the cap
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i agree. powdercoat is not the best choice.
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I've searched and can't find an answer regarding brake master cylinder paint for my '65. I get it that the master cylinder and cap are painted semi-gloss black, but want to know what kind of paint works best for it.
Is there an extra consideration because of the brake fluid or is it the same as the rest of the engine compartment? I welcome your feedback, the more detailed, the better.
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I've searched and can't find an answer regarding brake master cylinder paint for my '65. I get it that the master cylinder and cap are painted semi-gloss black, but want to know what kind of paint works best for it.
Is there an extra consideration because of the brake fluid or is it the same as the rest of the engine compartment? I welcome your feedback, the more detailed, the better.
Krylon brand is what I use however it doesn't really matter because If you get regular conventional brake fluid on the paint then it will typically get damaged regardless . If you use silicone (Dot 5) brake fluid then the paint will not be effected if it comes in contact with the fluid.
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Thanks for the reply. I have never considered Krylon so I learned something. I typically use Rustoleum or Dupli-Color high-heat paints under the hood. I paid attention to a post that mentioned how the MC is painted as a unit but didn't see any paint type mentioned.
I've got to work on my brakes so I'll flush the system and use what you recommended.
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Thanks for the reply. I have never considered Krylon so I learned something. I typically use Rustoleum or Dupli-Color high-heat paints under the hood. I paid attention to a post that mentioned how the MC is painted as a unit but didn't see any paint type mentioned.
I've got to work on my brakes so I'll flush the system and use what you recommended.
If doing a change over you have to flush very thoroughly because the two are not compatible and will jell up if they come in contact with each other. besides flushing the system with alcohol I took the Master , wheel cylinders , proportioning valve dissembled them and re lubricated the seals with the dot 5 before putting them back into service . That is Just me.
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I'm going through the system that thoroughly so it'll be flushed well. Alcohol is cheap...especially compared to Dot 5. A paint that could stand up to glycol-based fluid would be nice.
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I would not use DOT 5 in a classic vehicle but maybe that’s just me.
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I used duplicolor wheel paint on my 66. They say it’s designed to resist brake fluid (being that it’s wheel paint). It’s been a couple years now with no issues.
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I used duplicolor wheel paint on my 66. They say it’s designed to resist brake fluid (being that it’s wheel paint). It’s been a couple years now with no issues.
Just for other's benefit, finish looks great, but there would have been a plug inserted in the threaded boss when painted normally leaving a small round shadow around where the fitting attaches (a bare metal area) to the master cylinder. The plug would normally stay in place until removed and the line attached to keep contamination, dust, dirt and so on from the threads
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I actually did that however my plug wasn’t big enough and the paint sneaked around the plug.you can just barely see the bare spot on the left. I did however also paint it with the cap on so the threads are still bare.
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Eastwood makes a two stage paint called "2K" that is a two stage paint in a "rattle" can. Two stage = durability. $20 a can but BLOWS away regular rattle can crap.
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Al Bundy: Why would you not use DOT 5?
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Al Bundy: Why would you not use DOT 5?
For one, the components on a classic were not designed for a silicone based fluid. And also any contamination through say a vacuum brake booster can be catastrophic to an engine.
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For one, the components on a classic were not designed for a silicone based fluid. And also any contamination through say a vacuum brake booster can be catastrophic to an engine.
I have not heard of any kind of problem like you describe. I have not heard of any issue with DOT 5 breaking down rubber in seals etc. like you imply. Dot 5 is very commonly used in the classic car community. I have used it for decades on cars of mine and I know others have too. In fact it is particularly recommended for classic cars or vehicles that are garaged for much of their life but must be usable at short notice.Silicone fluid does not absorb water from the surrounding atmosphere while in service and therefore offers greatly extended service life whilst improving corrosion resistance of the main components of the braking system. It is not corrosive like Dot 3 and 4 in case it happens to get on a painted surface. The down side is that it is not for open track cars because it gives a slightly softer pedal feel.You also have to be careful when converting over by thoroughly cleaning /flushing brake lines and rebuilding master, wheel cylinder , proportioning valve etc using the DOT 5 to lubricate the seals instead of Dot 3 or 4 like is normally done. You can go online and read all kinds of info on Dot 5 and short of the downsides issues I mentioned it is very usable in classic cars. I and many others have not had problems . To each their own.
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I have not heard of any kind of problem like you describe. I have not heard of any issue with DOT 5 breaking down rubber in seals etc. like you imply. Dot 5 is very commonly used in the classic car community. I have used it for decades on cars of mine and I know others have too. In fact it is particularly recommended for classic cars or vehicles that are garaged for much of their life but must be usable at short notice.Silicone fluid does not absorb water from the surrounding atmosphere while in service and therefore offers greatly extended service life whilst improving corrosion resistance of the main components of the braking system. It is not corrosive like Dot 3 and 4 in case it happens to get on a painted surface. The down side is that it is not for open track cars because it gives a slightly softer pedal feel.You also have to be careful when converting over by thoroughly cleaning /flushing brake lines and rebuilding master, wheel cylinder , proportioning valve etc using the DOT 5 to lubricate the seals instead of Dot 3 or 4 like is normally done. You can go online and read all kinds of info on Dot 5 and short of the downsides issues I mentioned it is very usable in classic cars. I and many others have not had problems . To each their own.
I’m not certain where I implied anything about it’s effect on rubber seals. And I don’t find the fact that it won’t peel paint is a compelling enough reason to use it. YMMV
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I’m not certain where I implied anything about it’s effect on rubber seals. And I don’t find the fact that it won’t peel paint is a compelling enough reason to use it. YMMV
For one, the components on a classic were not designed for a silicone based fluid. And also any contamination through say a vacuum brake booster can be catastrophic to an engine.
When you said "For one, the components on a classic were not designed for a silicone based fluid." is when you implied that Dot 5 is not compatible or has a adverse effect on rubber seals. If not what other aspect of the brake system is the silicone based fluid not designed for? The only other thing that is left would be the insides of Terne steel brake lines or the cast insides of the brake calipers or wheel cylinders. Please confirm which item/items the silicone fluid was not designed for if not the rubber seals.
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When you said "For one, the components on a classic were not designed for a silicone based fluid." is when you implied that Dot 5 is not compatible or has a adverse effect on rubber seals. If not what other aspect of the brake system is the silicone based fluid not designed for? The only other thing that is left would be the insides of Terne steel brake lines or the cast insides of the brake calipers or wheel cylinders. Please confirm which item/items the silicone fluid was not designed for if not the rubber seals.
Sorry if you got the wrong impression, but you are reading too much into my statement. DOT 5 didn’t exist when these systems were created, they were designed around what was available. I’m not challenging the compatibility of DOT 5, obviously it will work though as you mentioned it gives a softer pedal. That’s something I personally would prefer not to have. I was asked why I wouldn’t use it and I stated my reasons. I’m not trying to tell anyone not to use it or that it doesn’t work.
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Sorry if you got the wrong impression, but you are reading too much into my statement. DOT 5 didn’t exist when these systems were created, they were designed around what was available. I’m not challenging the compatibility of DOT 5, obviously it will work though as you mentioned it gives a softer pedal. That’s something I personally would prefer not to have. I was asked why I wouldn’t use it and I stated my reasons. I’m not trying to tell anyone not to use it or that it doesn’t work.
I am glad to read that you are not challenging the compatibility of DOT 5. As far as reading too much into your statement we can agree to disagree. I believe you unintentionally misspoke but that is me given the statement. You thought you were clear but you were not. It is no matter now that you have clarified ,thank you very much . At the end of one of my previous posts here I said "to each their own" which I will further clarify in case it was unclear that I feel a personal preference is a prerogative in this case.