ConcoursMustang Forums
Non-Mustang Ford & Mercury Models => Cougar 1967-73 => Topic started by: RoyceP on April 17, 2021, 12:38:30 PM
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I am restoring a Dearborn '68 R code Cougar built June 15, 1968. We stripped the undercar areas like the floor pans and inner wheel hose and transmission tunnel completely. The car was wet media blasted and then dipped so nothing remains. I have a Lord Fusor gun, wondering which of the Lord Fusor products would be appropriate for the areas I need to apply sound deadener to? Also need to do the footwell / lower firewall areas of course.
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Since the new gallery software has not been installed yet can't post any pictures at the moment. Don't have many Dearborn Cougar examples to pull info from.
Typically you don't have much seam sealer applied under the car. You would have some under the sound deadener in the rear wheel well where the inner and outer halves come together then the sound deadener over that then body color. Rocker to floor (sometimes leading at the rear to along the front of the rear spring torque box to floor seam would have been applied after paint as was the inner seat belt mounts
In the front wheel well I see a bit in between the torque box, to front frame to inner fender panel to firewall section in each wheel well in the couple of pictures. That example only shows the remains traveling up from about the top 4 inches of the torque to frame seam then swinging over to the top edge of the torque box to firewall seam for a couple of inches. Some of the rest may have fallen/dropped off
If I expand to the Mustang brothers of the same plant and time I find the same 4 or so inches at the top frame to torque box seam then bending over and traveling outward along the torque box to firewall seam to the outer end/splash shield general attachment location
Some of the other seams are covered along with other surfaces with the sound deadener application later in the paint and coating processes
Hope this help.
Will try to remember to post some pictures once we get everything back up and running
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Crap sorry I titled it seam sealer when in fact my question was about sound deadener.
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LOL normally its me not slowing down and fully reading the request/post.
In any case here is a 68 Dearborn Cougar example showing that IMHO Cougars did not receive any more sound deadener in the front wheel wells than Mustangs. I attempted to trace as best I could what appears to be the original coverage and pattern of spray application. If you want more and will accept Mustang examples I can post additional pictures of course
All this is helping us test out the new software
Passenger side rear
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-180421162349-152871576.jpeg)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-180421162347-15285621.jpeg)
Slightly below the above area
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-180421162347-152851320.jpeg)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-180421162344-15284972.jpeg)
Battery tray/box area - PS front
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-180421162343-15283828.jpeg)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-180421162340-108711012.jpeg)
Not much for the drivers side (didn't take these) The drivers side front appears to have been in an accident (maybe why there is more than one picture) and it appears all the sound deadener got knocked off the inner panel from the attempts fo body work but the picture does show some sound deadener on the back side of the headlight buck surrounds in the front fenders
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-180421162340-10871807.jpeg)
Hope this helps
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Very good Jeff. I find a wide variation in the sound deadener applied to the floor pan of Cougars. Sometimes they are just plastered, other times not at all. The San Jose ones that I have seen appear to be just exactly like Mustangs - deadener in the driveshaft tunnel but only a bit on the floor pans. It's the Dearborn ones that are all over the map.
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Very good Jeff. I find a wide variation in the sound deadener applied to the floor pan of Cougars. Sometimes they are just plastered, other times not at all. The San Jose ones that I have seen appear to be just exactly like Mustangs - deadener in the driveshaft tunnel but only a bit on the floor pans. It's the Dearborn ones that are all over the map.
Remember, Ford was NOT building Concourse grade cars. Don't make your restoration perfect. Pretend you are an assembly line worker while you do your project. Drink a beer. (Many San Jose cars were assembled stoned.)
Jim
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LOL probably sound advice but I only open beer when the tools are put away. I think they must have had a lot of mind altering substances in Dearborn too!
Remember, Ford was NOT building Concourse grade cars. Don't make your restoration perfect. Pretend you are an assembly line worker while you do your project. Drink a beer. (Many San Jose cars were assembled stoned.)
Jim
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Remember, Ford was NOT building Concourse grade cars. Don't make your restoration perfect. Pretend you are an assembly line worker while you do your project. Drink a beer. (Many San Jose cars were assembled stoned.)
Jim
I would be too if I had to work on an assembly line doing very repetitive tasks. Ahhh...those were the days/daze.
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Remember, Ford was NOT building Concourse grade cars. Don't make your restoration perfect. Pretend you are an assembly line worker while you do your project. Drink a beer. (Many San Jose cars were assembled stoned.)
Jim
Based on discussions with some of the workers would suggest that few of the workers were stoned or drunk on the job. Out of hundreds of the workers that touched each cars. Most of the workers that built the cars in the 60's were part of the Greatest Generation - ex WWII vets that took pride in their work and were happy to have a good job (much better than allot of other choices) at the time. During this time also there were less younger folks in the work force since allot of them were drafted and on a fully paid for trip to far off lands.
Of course there were goof balls, trouble makers and so on but most were our Dad's, Uncle's as well as neighbors. Hate to see all of them lumped together
Now back to the sound deadener :)
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Based on discussions with some of the workers would suggest that few of the workers were stoned or drunk on the job. Out of hundreds of the workers that touched each cars. Most of the workers that built the cars in the 60's were part of the Greatest Generation - ex WWII vets that took pride in their work and were happy to have a good job (much better than allot of other choices) at the time. During this time also there were less younger folks in the work force since allot of them were drafted and on a fully paid for trip to far off lands.
There was a lot of "new blood" in the mid 60s, early 70's. That was the "hippie" generation. (Read "drugs"). They were 20 year olds and needed a job, but had no skills to speak of. They lasted anywhere from 89 days (the probation period was 90 days) to a couple of years at the plant. That's when most left for a number of reasons - like the draft. Those are the guys I went to Super Bowl Parties with, built off road toys with, boozed it up at the "Oar House", "Hiphugger", "The Morgue", "Big Al's Gas House", "St. James Infirmary" on weekends. I'm still in contact with a few after 50 years, and they do tell stories (hood alignment with a rubber mallet, busted spray guns, handfulls of extra screws tossed under the carpet, 4 out of 5 lug nuts - that's close, right?). However, no drugs for me, I had to take periodic tests as indicated in certain government contracts. We did go to the Milpitas plant to see our cars on the assembly lines though. Ford Aerospace was the outfit.
Jim
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With regards to when the sound deadener on the drive shaft tunnel, lower firewall / forward foot well area, and rear seat floor was applied, I know the brake lines were installed on the unit body.
Things I am unclear about:
1. Gas Tank,
2. Throttle pedal / kickdown assembly
3. Fuel lines
I assume the rear axle and leaf springs were not installed. I also am assuming the rear wheel wells would have been shot with sound deadener at the same time as the drive shaft tunnel and then paint colors would have been sprayed?
This being a GT-E the paint is rather complex. It gets the Augusta Green (same as Highland Green on a Ford product) on the body first, then the Sheffield Silver lower body color, then the black out of the pinch weld. Lots of overspray to deal with.
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Unless 68 Dearborn Cougars were handled differently than Mustangs that year at the same plant or other years I think a number of statements or assumsions are incorrect
1- Rear wheel well sound deadener was applied when the interior and trunk are sound deadener was applied. Because of that it got covered (in most areas (not in shadows from wheel lip or in trunk at the far forward surfaces at time) with body color. Plenty of examples of this
2- Any application to the driveline tunnel for Cougars only was more likely close to or at the same station as the front wheel well application when the car was pretty much fully assembled. Same front wheel well application as Mustangs.
3- Sound deadener application would not reach or be typically applied so far rearward to be any place close to the gas tank. It was not in place when the wheel well or trunk application was applied and none of the typical floor application would be that far rearward as mentioned
4- Throttle and kick down were so far inward from the wheel well application and the driveline tunnel application would be too far rearward to be anywhere near that assembly
5- Fuel lines would have been in place when the second application too place so you could find some splatter or if the pattern in the wheel well indicated some direct application on a line here or there in the wheel well. Under the car the line is too far outward to get any sound deadener IMHO. Even later Mach I floor applications typically didn't reach out that far since workers would not wanted to risk the spray traveling from under the car out onto walk ways, shelves and other things around the line
Hope this helps -
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Much appreciated Jeff!
Unless 68 Dearborn Cougars were handled differently than Mustangs that year at the same plant or other years I think a number of statements or assumsions are incorrect
1- Rear wheel well sound deadener was applied when the interior and trunk are sound deadener was applied. Because of that it got covered (in most areas (not in shadows from wheel lip or in trunk at the far forward surfaces at time) with body color. Plenty of examples of this
2- Any application to the driveline tunnel for Cougars only was more likely close to or at the same station as the front wheel well application when the car was pretty much fully assembled. Same front wheel well application as Mustangs.
3- Sound deadener application would not reach or be typically applied so far rearward to be any place close to the gas tank. It was not in place when the wheel well or trunk application was applied and none of the typical floor application would be that far rearward as mentioned
4- Throttle and kick down were so far inward from the wheel well application and the driveline tunnel application would be too far rearward to be anywhere near that assembly
5- Fuel lines would have been in place when the second application too place so you could find some splatter or if the pattern in the wheel well indicated some direct application on a line here or there in the wheel well. Under the car the line is too far outward to get any sound deadener IMHO. Even later Mach I floor applications typically didn't reach out that far since workers would not wanted to risk the spray traveling from under the car out onto walk ways, shelves and other things around the line
Hope this helps -
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I spent some time last week shooting pictures of a car that we are parting out. It was built at Dearborn about a week after the car that is being restored.
Here are pictures of the rear floors and drive shaft tunnel. Notice the only spot with red primer is the area around the shifter where apparently the shifter was avoided when the sound deadener was sprayed. The seat belt fittings are plastered as is the top of the tunnel. The floor pans are mostly covered in a black primer with overspray from the car's exterior color (Saxony / Meadowlark Yellow) and the pinch weld black out.
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A few more of the drive shaft tunnel. Also notice the floor pan is not covered with sound deadener, just a drippy coat of the black primer.
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The rear seat and areas of the floor pan directly above the mufflers are coated very well.
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The wheel wells look like they were masked on the outer side. The frame rail is not coated except by various colors of paint including the body color and pinch weld black out. And dirt of course from the last 53 years.
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On the firewall it appears the focus was on plastering anywhere there was a penetration including the fuse box mounting screws, the gas pedal grommet, the firewall insulation pad holes, and around the AC / Heat penetrations. This car has factory AC the sound deadener was liberally sprayed on the removable covers. Also notice the yellow body color beneath the gas pedal linkage mount.
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The front inner fender areas are just plastered really thick. On the cowl just the penetrations were squirted before the fender was installed.
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Thanks Royce for posting . I added a little more info to the title of the thread also
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Thanks for the update Jeff. I wonder why the font size became so small on my last post? I modified it to be legible.
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Thanks for the update Jeff. I wonder why the font size became so small on my last post? I modified it to be legible.
Now its real big so adjusted it back to "normal" - somehow the font size got changed
Look ok? You using a phone to view?
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Royce,
Here are a couple from my May 7th Dearborn built 428 GTE. The transmission tunnel, floors, and firewall all appear similar to your parts car.
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That is very interesting Kerry. Your car has a much more thorough coverage in the transmission tunnel than mine. Also on your car the coverage is over the frame rail, while my frame rails are devoid of any insulation.
Thanks!
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It must have been a good day at the factory as it was painted Augusta Green all of the way to the radiator support. This is on the backside of the battery tray.
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It must have been a good day at the factory as it was painted Augusta Green all of the way to the radiator support. This is on the backside of the battery tray.
That depends on the perspective. For example it would not be a good day from Fords perspective because the extra paint needed to cover the unintended areas would be seen as a waste of materials, time and money. Although a small amount on the one car though it was, multiply that by possibly hundreds of cars over time and things begin to add up ;)
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It must have been a good day at the factory as it was painted Augusta Green all of the way to the radiator support. This is on the backside of the battery tray.
Would guess that the drivers side was likely not painted with body as far forward.
Agree a waste of material. Painter must have coated some other areas with less paint to make the designated time allowed for the process. Maybe along the rocker panels
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That "428" with the letters is very cool!
I used my Lord Fusor gun with their High Definition black sealant yesterday. The results were very much like the factory. It was fresh and wet when I took these photos. Too drippy under the car in the transmission tunnel!
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The wheel wells look like they were masked on the outer side. The frame rail is not coated except by various colors of paint including the body color and pinch weld black out. And dirt of course from the last 53 years.
I think you will find and see that the spray was above that lip so not overspray would have traveled on this particular car. The material was thick unlike paint so the overspary was not as fine nor traveled like paint
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Yes I found that the sprayer was easily directed to place the material pretty much where you wanted it. One surprise was the amount of spattering on the fuel line that was the result of the product bouncing off the floor pan onto the fuel line. The fuel line isn't directly behind anything that is being sprayed, rather the part that got spattered was 90 degrees from the seat belt anchor on the rear floor pan that was liberally coated.
I think you will find and see that the spray was above that lip so not overspray would have traveled on this particular car. The material was thick unlike paint so the overspary was not as fine nor traveled like paint
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The sealant looks great Royce. I have been following your build and will use it as a resource on my own, thank you. Yes, I thought the "428" was pretty cool also when I uncovered it during the initial pressure washing. I believe it was Rod's 427 car that had "DR 427" on it as well. Jeff thank you for the recommendation of the sprayer. I have completed the interior sealant of mine at this point and it went on extremely easy and replicated the factory sealant nicely.
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Great picture Kerry!