ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: livetoride60 on June 11, 2014, 07:19:27 PM
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Working on my front suspension parts and wanted to confirm the finishes and paint marks I think I'm seeing. Oct 64 San Jose hipo Fastback.
Strut rods - natural steel with possible paint marks on the bottom side (side with dash mark) near the end.
Strut rod stops - natural steel with redish mark / dot. Red dot only on drivers side.
Springs - blackish heat treated steel with rose paint marks. Does not look like black paint, but steel has a blackish appearance.
Disc brake spindles - painted black with pink paint marks. Some sound deadner / undercoating on bottoms.
Disc brake shields - painted / dipped black with sound deadner / undercoating on inner facing side towards the bottom.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Rich
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Strut rods - natural steel with possible paint marks on the bottom side (side with dash mark) near the end. - Haven't seen ones there before. Have seen Dearborn ones (non- K code) marked elsewhere
Strut rod stops - natural steel with redish mark / dot - Typical non- K code thing. Have been found on both side and sometimes only on drivers side one
Springs - blackish heat treated steel with rose paint marks. Does not look like black paint, but steel has a blackish appearance.- Have seen a strong red to a muddy red on these. red is what is called out in the 65 TSB article describing the "new" Hipo suspension parts. Finish on the springs matches what I've seen for years from the heat treating and quenching though it can take on the look of paint.
Disc brake spindles - painted black with pink paint marks. Some sound deadner / undercoating on bottoms. - Never seen spindles painted. Have you tried a aircraft stripper on it yet so that the paint would bubble? Have found oil quenching which when the oil is old and dirty can produce a blackish finish that can be chipped, rubbed or sanded away but will not bubble like paint. The sound deadener is likely a worker with bad aim at the end of assembly. Have examples were they got the stuff on tie rods and adjusters but not typically bad enough to get it on the A arms or spindle - always a first ;)
Disc brake shields - painted / dipped black with sound deadener / undercoating on inner facing side towards the bottom. - Same response to the sound deadener as above
Nice finds - find anything more on the spindles? You barely scratched the surface of all the possible markings that have been found on those ;)
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I have not come across painted black spindles originally . I have however seen the heat treated spindle surface mistaken for being painted because of the black and blue gray flake look the heat treating process imparts onto the piece.
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I have not come across painted black spindles originally . I have however seen the heat treated spindle surface mistaken for being painted because of the black and blue gray flake look the heat treating process imparts onto the piece.
Disc brake spindles - painted black with pink paint marks. Some sound deadner / undercoating on bottoms. - Never seen spindles painted. Have you tried a aircraft stripper on it yet so that the paint would bubble? Have found oil quenching which when the oil is old and dirty can produce a blackish finish that can be chipped, rubbed or sanded away but will not bubble like paint.
Nice finds - find anything more on the spindles? You barely scratched the surface of all the possible markings that have been found on those ;)
The spindle definitely has the black & blue flake look both of you describe, so sounds like just the normal heat treat / oil quench finish. I will give it the paint stripper bubble test to be sure, and see if I can find more markings.
Strut rods - natural steel with possible paint marks on the bottom side (side with dash mark) near the end. - Haven't seen ones there before. Have seen Dearborn ones (non- K code) marked elsewhere
I read somewhere about green (I think) paint on the bottoms to show which side is down. I'll look closer for more, but weren't any jumping out at me.
Strut rod stops - natural steel with redish mark / dot - Typical non- K code thing. Have been found on both side and sometimes only on drivers side one
Forgot to mention I only found the red mark on one side, drivers side.
Springs - blackish heat treated steel with rose paint marks. Does not look like black paint, but steel has a blackish appearance.- Have seen a strong red to a muddy red on these. red is what is called out in the 65 TSB describing the "new" Hipo suspension parts. Finish on the springs matches what I've seen for years from the heat treating and quenching though it can take on the look of paint.
Good deal.
The sound deadener is likely a worker with bad aim at the end of assembly. Have examples were they got the stuff on tie rods and adjusters but not typically bad enough to get it on the A arms or spindle - always a first ;)
I scraped it off and looks like a combo of age old compacted grease and maybe a shot of deadner. Most of it didn't flake like I've seen the brown deadner do before, but in the pic of the shield it sure has that appearance from the surface. May be the saturation of grease.
Thanks for the input! Off to do more evaporusting, brushing, etc, etc.
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I read somewhere about green (I think) paint on the bottoms to show which side is down. I'll look closer for more, but weren't any jumping out at me.
It's usually a small yellow daub to indicate orientation. The assembly manual actually calls this out. Have found the yellow mark on lots of original strut rods, regardless of assembly plant.
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It's usually a small yellow daub to indicate orientation. The assembly manual actually calls this out. Have found the yellow mark on lots of original strut rods, regardless of assembly plant.
Pictures I've got has that mark further forward on the arms as fairly small. Same thing that you've seen Charles?
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Pictures I've got has that mark further forward on the arms as fairly small. Same thing that you've seen Charles?
Oh yeah, definitely further out, usually about in the middle or so.
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Update and questions:
- Strut rods - Soaked in evaporust and fully stripped. Didn't find any paint marks on them.
- Spindles - Tried putting paint stripper on the blue / black metal flake and it did NOT bubble. Based on this it looks like typical oil quenching deposits as Jeff and Bob suggested. Also, fully cleaned the drivers side spindle and found mostly pink paint marks all over, with a couple bits of red and blue. Possibly some white, but that may just be faded pink. See pics.
- Springs - evaporusted to get marks, then bead blasted, gun blued, neutralized in a water / baking soda bath, and gave a light coat of Diamond clear. I used the Birchwood-Casey "Super Blue" instead of the regular "Perma Blue". The result is more black than blue. I also read on a gun site about neutralizing in a baking soda bath since the gun blue is acidic, so tried it. My first go round I blued one spring with the "Perma Blue" outside on a humid day and it flash rusted all over in about 5 minutes. I restripped then blued both using the "Super Blue" in my air conditioned basement and had no more flash rusting problems, even after the baking soda bath. I don't know if the difference was the different product or the low humidity, but I'd guess the latter.
Questions:
1) Should I go with a red stripe on the springs as indicated by the '65 TSB you mentioned Jeff, or make it match what I originally found which is a rose color (see pics I originally posted)? Do these typically fade that much?
2) Any input on the colors and marks on my spindles? Look typical for my plant, time, & car?
Thanks,
Rich
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First thanks for reporting back on your findings and good to see they support the current understands :)
Questions:
1) Should I go with a red stripe on the springs as indicated by the '65 TSB you mentioned Jeff, or make it match what I originally found which is a rose color (see pics I originally posted)? Do these typically fade that much?
IMHO if you have cleaned through the top surface to the base color I would document and redo using the color you found. I've found that Hipo springs marked "red", for some reason have a real wide range of tones for some reason. Much more than any other color used to mark items - we'll 69 HD strut washer and spindles are a close second) I've seen from strong reds to muddy almost browns and would stick with what you've found and can feel comfortable with
2) Any input on the colors and marks on my spindles? Look typical for my plant, time, & car?
Spindles can be challenging IMHO sometimes lots of small marks other times it looks like they used a 6" house paint brush to apply some marks at San Jose
But in response to your question IMHO yes you have found the original markings for your plant, car and period of time. Notes are as follows
The marks/color on the arms of the spindles are pretty typical of 64-65 ones before December
The colors you found on the upper vertical arm of the spindle I've seen on others though amount of coverage varied
Mark at the bottom of the spindle facing the lower arm I've seen in two different colors - the one you found is one of those two. Check the inside face of that knukel for an additional small mark - faces the center of the car
The small red mark at the top of the arm close to the upper A arm is a different color than others I've seen. Likely a period/time difference
Are these the C3 or the C5 cast spindles?
Hope this helps
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That does help. Thanks Jeff.
Mark at the bottom of the spindle facing the lower arm I've seen in two different colors - the one you found is one of those two. Check the inside face of that knukel for an additional small mark - faces the center of the car
I think you're talking about the knuckle for the lower control arm? If so, the inside face of it has a small pink mark, as does the inside face of the upper control arm knuckle. Also possibly a trace of yellow on each, but hard to tell if it's just rust or paint. See pics.
Are these the C3 or the C5 cast spindles?
These are C5.
The small red mark at the top of the arm close to the upper A arm is a different color than others I've seen. Likely a period/time difference
I'll see what the other spindle reveals, if it matches, etc. Thanks again. Back to the parts washer.....
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Springs done. Mark looks pretty pink in this light, but really more of a rose. Original marks looked rose colored.
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Springs done. Mark looks pretty pink in this light, but really more of a rose. Original marks looked rose colored.
Thanks for sharing and mentioning to all that the color when viewed is not like the original color. For all those lurkers out there :)
Would agree it was allot more red than what shows on my screen - keep up the effort
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Spindles can be challenging IMHO sometimes lots of small marks other times it looks like they used a 6" house paint brush to apply some marks at San Jose
But in response to your question IMHO yes you have found the original markings for your plant, car and period of time. Notes are as follows
The marks/color on the arms of the spindles are pretty typical of 64-65 ones before December
The colors you found on the upper vertical arm of the spindle I've seen on others though amount of coverage varied
Mark at the bottom of the spindle facing the lower arm I've seen in two different colors - the one you found is one of those two. Check the inside face of that knukel for an additional small mark - faces the center of the car
The small red mark at the top of the arm close to the upper A arm is a different color than others I've seen. Likely a period/time difference
Jeff (or anyone else) - well finally got my other (pass side) spindle cleaned. Pics below. This one doesn't have the blue on the upper arm like the drivers side, but does have aqua-green marks on the inside knuckle faces (facing center of car as you noted). Drivers side spindle didn't have that, or at least wasn't there after 50 years....had traces of red marks instead.
Easy to see pink is liberally applied at SJ, even on the bottom.
So some questions. Got to get these to the body shop tomorrow hopefully. :)
1) Is that inside face mark on the knuckles usually green / blue green?
2) Are these inside knuckle face marks typically the same color on both sides, and if so green? Mine look like green on pass side and red on drivers, although as you noted red is a color you hadn't seen.
3) Planning to make these spindles dark using black oxide solution, like my caliper bracket here http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=9774.msg57648#msg57648
Is that good shade for spindles? Think it would be considering the dark gray residue I found from the oil quenching process. Most spindles I see on finished cars are a medium or lighter gray, like Eastwood Detail Gray.
Thanks,
Rich
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Easy to see pink is liberally applied at SJ, even on the bottom.
Believe you will find that parts were "marked" for identification at the provider not at the assembly plants
1) Is that inside face mark on the knuckles usually green / blue green?
Trying to only look at similar C5DA spindles for comparison purposes
Don't have allot of 65 examples or spindle marks in general since most don't get saved. There are a handful of different spindles that were used on early Mustangs and allot of different marks which may be intentional and some may just be paint slapped around while applying marks elsewhere on the spindle making this not an easy subject so far to figure out. Your lucky that yours are so easy to see and you took the time to look and document them
From what I understand there should be an identifier that identifies the spindle, which end is up and which end is down (inside small daubs at knuckles). There are likely one or two for inspections and testing - like for the hardness test. and possibly for the machining. I would like to be of more help but only can offer what I've collected and documented and do not want to over reach. Even went back to my paper notes and binders for this question
2) Are these inside knuckle face marks typically the same color on both sides, and if so green? Mine look like green on pass side and red on drivers, although as you noted red is a color you hadn't seen.
In your pictures above I saw the red mentioned on the outer surface of the upper spindle while the teal (like the lower knuckle) was on the inner surface. Are we talking about these two marks? We don't want to compare markings from different locations IMHO
Generally if the spindles are from the same batch (same casting series) then it is my understanding that the "this end up or down" would be the same for either side
3) Planning to make these spindles dark using black oxide solution, like my caliper bracket here ............Is that good shade for spindles? Think it would be considering the dark gray residue I found from the oil quenching process.
Would aim for somewhere between what you got on the coil springs and the caliper mounting bracket
Don't forget the machined surfaces and the test mark area ;)
Most spindles I see on finished cars are a medium or lighter gray, like Eastwood Detail Gray.
:( worth a point or so deduction. This one looks like some brand of cast blast
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-131114210319.jpeg)
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It looks like the other side spindle might have had a white paint mark?
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It looks like the other side spindle might have had a white paint mark?
Are these the spindles from the same car or another?
Are they C5DA's from the same period?
Just trying to view your pictures in the same context. IF your looking at these in person it may be white but have found that in pictures white is often and altered other color due to the elements or other reactions over the years. Just an observations
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Jeff - They are both off the same 9/65 scheduled build SJ car and the "white" looked yellow but where it was scratched there was white underneath. I will say that the car was hit on the right side in 1968 so maybe there is a remote chance that this spindle was replaced at that time. I doubt it, but possible.
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Jeff - went back in old pics and found red only on the upper inside of drivers knuckle, whereas teal is on both upper & lower inside of passenger knuckle. Also bits of red on outside of drivers upper arm.
I guess I'll go with what i found, which is
=============================================================================
Spindle markings found:
C5DA spindles on a Oct 64 SJ K code V8, which came came with the special handling package and manual steering. Also disc brakes on mine.
- drivers side
- pink sloppy on arms, bottom
- blue mark on outside of upper arm.
- bits of red on outside top of arm
- pink marks on inside of upper & lower knuckles
- bits of red on inside of upper knuckle
- possibly traces of yellow on inside of upper & lower knuckles, but too hard to tell.
- passenger side
- pink sloppy on arms, bottom
- teal marks on inside of upper & lower knuckles
=============================================================================
I know you're hitting you're limit on these, so no problem if you don't want to overreach. So here goes,..hopefully to start wrapping up...
1) You said in an earlier post that you'd seen the mark on the upper vertical arm on others, was that the pink or blue? Also, think the blue might be the "this side up" mark?
2) You mentioned the color on the lower part facing the arm was one of two colors you'd seen before, was that the pink? (Again in an earlier post)
3) where and what is the test mark you mentioned?
4) think the teal marks (inside of upper & lower knuckles, pass side) probably be to indicate ball joint nuts tightened? Same for the pink marks in same location on drivers side.
Also, on rockhouses response, don't think I'm finding a white mark. Think its just faded pink.
Any other sugesstions please let me know. As always, thanks for the great help
Rich
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If anyone else has a car from this plant / time period (SJ, Oct 64), I'd be interested to compare spindle markings.. K code V8 in my case, which cam came with the special handling package and manual steering. Also disc brakes on mine. C5DA spindles.
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Include the casting number of the spindle also - think that is an important piece of the puzzle as well as application. Don't want to be mixing 6 cyl with V8 and so on ;)
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I have not taken my front suspension a part yet but will try to clean up what I can. My car built 20 days after yours but it is a A code with an automatic transmission.
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I have not taken my front suspension a part yet but will try to clean up what I can. My car built 20 days after yours but it is a A code with an automatic transmission.
Thanks Chris.
Include the casting number of the spindle also - think that is an important piece of the puzzle as well as application. Don't want to be mixing 6 cyl with V8 and so on ;)
Went back and added that information. Also made "Spindle markings found" section above more clear.
In your pictures above I saw the red mentioned on the outer surface of the upper spindle while the teal (like the lower knuckle) was on the inner surface. Are we talking about these two marks? We don't want to compare markings from different locations IMHO
Re-correcting my answer to this. Went back through old pictures and found there WAS also a bit of red on the inside of the drivers upper knuckle, but not on the lower knuckle. Pic below. This is in addition to bits of red on the outer surface of drivers upper arm. Updated this info in the "Spindle markings" section above.
Fun stuff. :)
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I've seen red 'tick' marks on Dearborn car suspension parts, most likely quality control to denote torque complete.
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I know you're hitting you're limit on these, so no problem if you don't want to overreach. So here goes,..hopefully to start wrapping up...
1) You said in an earlier post that you'd seen the mark on the upper vertical arm on others, was that the pink or blue? Also, think the blue might be the "this side up" mark?
This one?
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-171114195126.jpeg)
No don't believe that is the purpose. Inner marks are easier to see both at the same time and seeing those marks are not obstructed by the brake drum and such if installed first when assembling the sub assemblies on a bench prior to being fitted as a unit to the unibody
2) You mentioned the color on the lower part facing the arm was one of two colors you'd seen before, was that the pink? (Again in an earlier post)
I've often found pink and yellow used on the steering arm or in some examples both
3) where and what is the test mark you mentioned?
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-171114194604.jpeg)
4) think the teal marks (inside of upper & lower knuckles, pass side) probably be to indicate ball joint nuts tightened? Same for the pink marks in same location on drivers side.
Don't believe so as mentioned believe that the small dots or marks on the inside knuckle surface as being up and down marks
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-171114194355.jpeg)
As Charles mentioned have seen 65 Dearborn with the red lines likely related to tightening but have never seen any indication mark for suspension on San Jose. At this point don't believe that was part of their practices during 65
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Got my center link cleaned up. Looks like a pink mark on the end for the steering box. Also has blue marks near on the next hole over, for drivers tie rod. Not sure this is original, as may be from the engine repaint. Ever seen blue like that?
Also, the finish looks like black paint, but didn't bubble up with stripper, although the stripper removed it. Assume it's the oil quench residue.
Not seeing any evidence yet of a "stripe" near that drivers tie rod hole like I've seen on others.
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Spindles done. I slopped the pink on and let it run just like they did.
Comments are welcome if you notice any issues.
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Looks good - those up and down marks at the knuckles look allot bigger than normally found. Typically I find them the size of maybe a half of the diameter of a pencil eraser . just a don't and likely not applied with a brush. Similar to what you found originally
Know we're being picky - but you asked :)
Machined surfaces appear to be different in look. Might just be the flash or angle. Looking at the one picture from the back side the upper (for example) on the left looks shinier than the one on the right. Much of the caliper bracket looks unmachined and monotone
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Looks good - those up and down marks at the knuckles look allot bigger than normally found. Typically I find them the size of maybe a half of the diameter of a pencil eraser . just a don't and likely not applied with a brush. Similar to what you found originally
Ok, noted. Thanks Jeff.
I'm also suspicious of that blue mark. May have been from the twilight turquoise repaint it got, but would have been difficult to get it in that location since it's protected by the rotor shield. As you mentioned earlier, not a lot of examples from this period, so left it there.
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Know we're being picky - but you asked :)
No problem...that's why I did.
Looks good - those up and down marks at the knuckles look allot bigger than normally found. Typically I find them the size of maybe a half of the diameter of a pencil eraser . just a don't and likely not applied with a brush. Similar to what you found originally
The upper green one is that big on the original. If you go to reply #12 you can see it. The reds are probably too big tho.
Machined surfaces appear to be different in look. Might just be the flash or angle. Looking at the one picture from the back side the upper (for example) on the left looks shinier than the one on the right. Much of the caliper bracket looks unmachined and monotone
It is the flash, for the spindles anyway. All machined surfaces on them are similar and shiny. The calipers are another story. I wondered if you'd catch that. :) Have to go back and do those surfaces.
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Spindles done. I slopped the pink on and let it run just like they did.
Comments are welcome if you notice any issues.
In the second picture the holes in the back of the spindle where they were held in a jig were typically machined metal down into the hole. Yours looks like dark metal. Looks very good other then a little too much pink as Jeff mentioned.
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In the second picture the holes in the back of the spindle where they were held in a jig were typically machined metal down into the hole. Yours looks like dark metal. Looks very good other then a little too much pink as Jeff mentioned.
Thanks Bob. So machined just inside the hole, like it was drilled?
Also on the pink, are you talking about just the pink on the knuckles being too much, or the pink on the arms as well. That pink on the arms pretty closely matches what was on my originals. You can see it in some of the earlier pics in this post. There really was quite a bit.
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Thanks Bob. So machined just inside the hole, like it was drilled?
Also on the pink, are you talking about just the pink on the knuckles being too much, or the pink on the arms as well. That pink on the arms pretty closely matches what was on my originals. You can see it in some of the earlier pics in this post. There really was quite a bit.
The hole was completed after the casting process. There may have been a depression of some kind to start with in the raw casting. The sides and bottom of the hole would be machined metal as would be seen if drilled . The paint on the upright portion of the spindle and the arm in the unrestored spindle spindle are more then is typically seen to begin with. The restored spindle looks to have even more paint then was on the unrestored spindle. Less is more in this instance is what I guess I am trying to say.
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The hole was completed after the casting process. There may have been a depression of some kind to start with in the raw casting. The sides and bottom of the hole would be machined metal as would be seen if drilled . The paint on the upright portion of the spindle and the arm in the unrestored spindle spindle are more then is typically seen to begin with. The restored spindle looks to have even more paint then was on the unrestored spindle. Less is more in this instance is what I guess I am trying to say.
Ok, understand. Thanks.
I think the paint guy was having a good day that day.
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Ok, understand. Thanks.
I think the paint guy was having a good day that day.
He was having some kind of day. ;D
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He was having some kind of day. ;D
Yep!
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Strut rods - natural steel with possible paint marks on the bottom side (side with dash mark) near the end. - Haven't seen ones there before. Have seen Dearborn ones (non- K code) marked elsewhere
Strut rod stops - natural steel with redish mark / dot - Typical non- K code thing. Have been found on both side and sometimes only on drivers side one
Sorry to revive an old topic but redoing my front suspension and found a red dot on my driver side stop. Nothing on the passenger side though. Assume that is normal for late Oct 64 SJ. Will be soaking the strut rods soon to report on any markings there and spindles...
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Sorry to revive an old topic but redoing my front suspension and found a red dot on my driver side stop. Nothing on the passenger side though. Assume that is normal for late Oct 64 SJ. Will be soaking the strut rods soon to report on any markings there and spindles...
Chris it might help if you post also with the discovery of a mark which spindles you have. Just post the casting numbers. Just a thought to keep the apples with the apples ;)
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As before found a red mark on the inner side of the stop but also found what appears to be one on the outside. Is this common?
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As before found a red mark on the inner side of the stop but also found what appears to be one on the outside. Is this common?
Looks like a run from the paint daub that got on the other side.
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Looks like a run from the paint daub that got on the other side.
+1
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Sorry to revive an old topic but redoing my front suspension and found a red dot on my driver side stop. Nothing on the passenger side though. Assume that is normal for late Oct 64 SJ. Will be soaking the strut rods soon to report on any markings there and spindles...
Chris - mine only had the red dot on the drivers side stop as well. See pics in 1st post on page 1 of this thread.
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Looks like a run from the paint daub that got on the other side.
So the question is, do I duplicate that or leave that off when I restore this piece?
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Personal preference IMO. I replicated every sloppy drip on mine just cause I like to retain how it was. Some days I think twice about it, but overall Im happy.
As Jeff pointed out to me a while back, the more "out of the norm" it is, the more you might have to explain to judges or back it up with pictures....or to every person at a car show who notices.
At least that's what I thought you meant Jeff.
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I don't see a problem replicating the run. Especially since you have a pic of the original showing the detail.
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As Jeff pointed out to me a while back, the more "out of the norm" it is, the more you might have to explain to judges or back it up with pictures....or to every person at a car show who notices.
At least that's what I thought you meant Jeff.
That is the nature of the beast. Have no problem with reproducing what you find just be prepared 'cause someone will or should eventually ask. In this case its under the car and less likely to be seen by the general public and only by a judge or someone on this forum ::)
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Working on the driver side spindle, found what appears to be pink and maybe some yellow at the end of the knuckle. On the bottom appears to be more pink and maybe some blue? Not sure. Also the backing plate in the background you can see two white marks.
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Yellow/pink are pretty typical of spindle markings for '65.
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Agree the pink/yellow is a common combination. Finding it as far back as under the spindle at the ball joint knuckle is a bit different but they were not very careful slapping on the paint in these applications and it might just be a drip that landed there
On the backing plate have seen similar on rears but we don't get to see allot of front drum
Got to ask as I can't tell from the picture but is the adjustment hole for the brakes over or blocked?
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Does this help?
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Does this help?
Guess I should ask it this way. Can you pass a pen, nail or screwdriver through that hole for adjusting the brake shoes or is it blocked by a small metal plate on the interior surface?
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I can pass an object through there
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I can pass an object through there
Thanks that is what I would expect for plant and time. It wasn't clear in the picture with the angle and shadow
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Also note tick marks... :-)
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Here are pics of the top of the passenger side. Can't tell if it is white or a light green. Any thoughts or observations? Also I noticing the spindle has a reddish tint when I take it out of the evaporust.
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Looks white.
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So I took a little paint stripper to the top and side of the passenger spindle and that color from before appeared green. Would this be correct?
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Would not phrase it as being correct or incorrect. If the spindle is original to the car and you've cleaned it (would run a light sand paper over a bit of the surface to remove any change in the surface color) then IMHO its correct for your car. ;) Think your looking to find out if this is a common or typical mark for this spindle, car and time period
Is this a C5DA spindle? Have a number of different colors used on that upper knuckle but another owner has posted in the past an Oct 65 San Jose with a C5DA spindle with that same color at that same location
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Removed the tie rods of the car. They look original as there is no zerk fitting but not sure. They are pretty loose so I doubt they can be salvaged, correct? Did find a red mark on the driver side sleeve. Will soak in evaporust and check.
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What, if any, are any of the markings on the boots?
Usually a no zerk fitting indicates it is a factory installed tie rod end.
Define "loose".
I sealed the studs with RTV, allowed them to sit for a month, bead blasted them, phosphated them and got them ready for re-installation.
My San Jose, Oct 65, K Fastback has 79,000 miles.
Jim
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Both boots on the outer tie rods were really torn up and didn't find anything on them. The inner passenger side had a 12-13 and the driver side inner tie rod boot had a 33. There are numbers on the actual tie rods themselves. I did remove the boot on the driver side and found a blue mark under where it sits that would not be visible once a new boot is installed. Wiped away though, not sure what that could have been...
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I did remove the boot on the driver side and found a blue mark under where it sits that would not be visible once a new boot is installed. Wiped away though, not sure what that could have been...
I had a similar blue mark, I don't remember the side, but Jeff was unaware of any meaning.
I looked for a used tie rod end seal. It's cold and dark out there. It's tomorrow's exercise.
The first five pictures show my process for clean-up.
The last one is of my "reward".
Jim
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Question, is the tie rod sleeve supposed to be as dark as the tie rods themselves? I did nothing to the tie rods as they are NOS pieces a acquired.
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Question, is the tie rod sleeve supposed to be as dark as the tie rods themselves? I did nothing to the tie rods as they are NOS pieces a acquired.
The adjuster sleeve is made from a different metal and through a different process so IMHO not its normally not as dark as the cast heat treated tie rods.
Even with the digital pictures I thick we can see the difference in the picture you posted. On my monitor the cast sections of the tie rods are a bit light but could be lighting, flash or just the darn digital camera doing what they do. Have a set of 66 "campaign" /service recall tie rods around some where I should find ::)
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Of all the original front coil springs I've removed from early Mustangs 99.9% have all had evidence of black paint on them, especially up top under the spring pad. It appears to be a low grade paint as it washes away easily with lacquer thinner and I don't think the heat treatment finish would be affected by lacquer thinner.
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Of all the original front coil springs I've removed from early Mustangs 99.9% have all had evidence of black paint on them, especially up top under the spring pad. It appears to be a low grade paint as it washes away easily with lacquer thinner and I don't think the heat treatment finish would be affected by lacquer thinner.
Got to ask - what plant? since we're discussing San Jose in this thread.
Low grade black is not what others have been finding/describing when they believe they have found black. Lacquer thinner has not removed it
Now allot of these were painted by owners and shops of the years maybe that is what you have been seeing. But as mentioned my observations since the 70's has been the exact opposite of yours
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in general, are all the nuts including castle nuts zinc/cad plated?
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in general, are all the nuts including castle nuts zinc/cad plated?
In general, per the 64-65 Mustang Chassis Manual, yes.
Jim
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Question, is the tie rod sleeve supposed to be as dark as the tie rods themselves? I did nothing to the tie rods as they are NOS pieces a acquired.
As mentioned the sleeve is not as dark as the tie rods. It is somewhat common to see the clamps of the sleeve a slightly darker finish then the sleeve. They most likely were heat treated or a similar process because when you blast them they look the same as the sleeve.
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in general, are all the nuts including castle nuts zinc/cad plated?
On 65-66, I've found gold dichromate on original castle nuts that attach to the ball joint studs (through the spindles).
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Of all the original front coil springs I've removed from early Mustangs 99.9% have all had evidence of black paint on them, especially up top under the spring pad. It appears to be a low grade paint as it washes away easily with lacquer thinner and I don't think the heat treatment finish would be affected by lacquer thinner.
The 3 unrestored 66's I have (Dearborn) have black painted front springs.
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It is becoming apparent that the likelihood of plant differences exists in this case. At least between SJ and Dearborn.
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are the castle nuts standard hardware and can be found at local stores(ie ace hardware) or is this an AMK item?
my auto parts store has a nut that is fluted at the top.
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are the castle nuts standard hardware and can be found at local stores(ie ace hardware) or is this an AMK item?
I've found them at hardware stores but you have to make sure you matching all the details. There are ones with rounded and square bottoms to the cut outs (or what ever the right term is) short ones and tall ones also
Your local stores may be different
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I just encountered this. The ones at ace are too short. The ones from npd are .61 tall. I found the others were loose and the cotter pin was only keeping it on the threads. I changed them out and everything appears tight now
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are the castle nuts standard hardware and can be found at local stores(ie ace hardware) or is this an AMK item?
my auto parts store has a nut that is fluted at the top.
Play it safe and get a a AMK kit if you can't source originals and have them replated. I doubt the auto parts store or Ace nuts will be the same looking or the same finish. It would not be consistent and would be ridicules IMO to cut corners at this point given all of the other in depth details you have tried to incorporate into your car. Especially since the concours correct parts were talking about are less then 20.00.
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1- are the tie rod sleeves clamps the same color/finish as the sleeves?
2- was grease applied to the threads?
3-are the tie rod sleeve bolts/nuts darker in color? would gun bluing achieve the correct darker appearance?
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1- are the tie rod sleeves clamps the same color/finish as the sleeves?
Both were formed and made from similar steel materials handled much in the same way[/quote]
2- was grease applied to the threads?
Would not expect to see any visible grease
3-are the tie rod sleeve bolts/nuts darker in color? would gun bluing achieve the correct darker appearance?
Yes you can use gun bluing to darken down the bolts and the nuts to a lesser amount they were not dark or heat treated