Topic: Pacecar Starting Problem

[husker boxster]

New member hello!

I’ve owned a Pacecar since Oct ‘79.  It was 3 mo old and had 6K mi when I bought it.  I was 20 at the time.  33 yrs later she’s bone stock with 78K mi.  The specifics are:

Turbo 4 spd
Tilt wheel
AC
Ford rear louvers added in 1980
Serial # 1156 built in Dearborn on Apr 17, 1979 and sold on Jun 7, 1979

The trouble is I haven’t driven her for 3 or 4 yrs and it’s never good to let them sit.  While I’ll hate to part with her, I’m going to get it ready for the Mecum auction in KC in Apr.  My interests have shifted to other brands (take a guess),  and I just don’t have the time for her anymore.

As part of the auction prep, I’d like to track down and fix an issue that she’s always had.  There’s an intermittent problem when starting.  Sometimes she’ll barely turn over - like graaa….raaa….raaa.  Turn the key off and restart and she turns over fine.  I’ve changed the starter but that didn’t solve the problem.  It's never left me stranded but is annoying.  Any ideas on what it might be?

TIA

[priceless]

How old is the battery? One of the worst things for a car, is for it to sit and on the same token it's even worse on the battery.

Here's my thoughts.....When you go to start the Mustang, the battery has been sitting so long, it's slowly discharged itself, ok, when you try to crank it the first time, it is slow like you say, graaa...raaa....raaa....At that time when trying to crank it, it has actually warmed the battery up enough from the first try, that it actually turns the car over the second time.....Hope that makes sense. My Dad was a self employed, retired mechanic, and I have seen alot of crazy battery problems.  This is just one of them.

I would think the problem would be in your battery......Just my thoughts....We'll see what someone else might add.

By the way, I would absolutely enjoy owning your pacecar, back in '79 I was 17 and a Junior in HS and this girl had one and used to cruse in it all the time, and back then, I fell in love with the '79 Mustang pacecar.  I think their a cool piece of Mustang history.

[husker boxster]

Thanks for the suggestion, but this has been a problem since I've owned the car, not just recently.  The first 3 yrs of ownership it was my semi-daily driver so there wasn't an issue with the battery down from non-use.  Over the yrs I've had several batteries installed.  Would still have the issue on an intermittent basis regardless of the age of the battery.  I should mention I've disconnected the clock many yrs ago so it wouldn't be a constant drain on the battery.

I remember taking her on a 180 mile trip for golf about 10 yrs ago.  The next day while at our golf location, she had her issue.  My golf buddy was looking at me and I'm sure wondering if we were going to get back home.  She did start after retrying, but that was typical of her actions.  And this was after I replaced the starter and had assured my buddy the problem had been solved.

I won't discount your idea, but would like to see is someone else has experienced the same problem (and has a solution).

I didn't want to make this a "hi, first post, buy my car" kind of a deal but if you want to contact me off-line that would be fine.  Part of the problem is I don't know exactly what it's worth.  Values can be all over the board depending on condition.  And there aren't many on the market to guage from.  I have an idea what mine's worth but I don't know if I'm off. That's why I thought taking it to an auction would better define things.  Mine is in very good condition - no rust (Ziebart'd when new), seats aren't warn out, no bondo, etc.  But it has some items needing attn - AC recharged, timing belt changed, valve guide seals replaced, and oh yah, the starter issue.  The perfect car for Edd on Wheeler Dealers.  My email addr is txlessmann@cox.net

[priceless]

Oh, ok, I thought it was an issue just since it's been parked. It sounds electrical obviously. Have you checked the voltage regulator, alternator, wiring,etc.,?...Just a thought.

I would like to own your pacecar, but finances won't allow it right now...just letting you know '79 pacecar is on my "Bucket List"....LOL.

[svo2scj]

Hello

My guess is the car has had a GROUND issue all along !!  Either a bad cable or just connection at the block or secondary grounds near the battery.

I"m glad you came here - and ADMITTED you want to sell the car (respecting the "first post for sale") !!  YOU CAN'T SELL A SECRET!

Pace cars ARE all over the place !   Partly due to being either W or M codes (2.3/5.0) and then the typical condition etc etc etc.  The other thing is YOU WOULD believe how many were bought and just PUT AWAY with under 500 miles still today!

PERSONALLY - I'm not sure this is an auction car !!  (especially the 2.3Turbo)  You would get much more interest among the 2.3 crowd - but MONEY is an issue for most.  Even I would only consider a pace car in a trade scenario.   (It's the kind of car you don't need)  Having done a few - I don't look forward the fun of confirming condition of all the hoses and other parts of the suck through carb from the Turbo)
 
But since you have to touch all that stuff to change the valve seals (do the timing belt at the same time) I guess it is just part of maintenance on the car.   Plus you can detail the engine for the auction.   You really need to commit and get moving - OR sell/trade IF you think you aren't the guy for the job.  (Valve seals/timing belt is like a 3 hour job - SHOPS will want flat rate at over 13 hours)

Anyway - welcome, think about it all and let us know WHERE you are !!  (both for helping if you have never worked on a 2.3 or sold at auction)   Also for purchase/trade - MOST of us are heading to AZ next week and have open trucks!

[husker boxster]

A ground issue sounds very plausible.  I'm going to pull her out of storage this coming w/e and will do some snooping around.

I have $300 worth of parts coming from Rock Auto, so I plan to do several maintenance items on the car.  But I don't feel comfortable doing the belt and seals.  Those are a bit past my experience level and I don't want to mess them up attempting them.  Will have to farm them out.  However, I think the dealer who did the timing belt the last time might have gotten it a tooth off as it didn't seem right when it came back.  This was at least 15 yrs ago but I probably have only driven it a couple thousand miles since then.  I'm assuming it needs changing now because of age.

I checked Mecum's web site yesterday and they're not taking cars for KC yet, so I have some time.  I figure I can get the major work done by the end of Jan and take it from there.  The past two winters I've bought Audi TTs to fix and sell, so I figured this year I'd work on my Mustang.  You may be right, it might not be a good candidate for the auction.  But I'll have the satisfaction of getting her back up to snuff.

And you're probably also right about all the cars stashed away, just waiting for the market to take off.  Trouble is, their $9-$10K Pace car with no miles is probably worth $8K today.  Not a good 30 yr investment.  And they never got to enjoy them.  I have a "rare" 2008 Porsche Boxster S Limited Edition - #005 of 250.  I bought it 5 yrs ago tomorrow.  It currently has 31K mi, so it's no garage queen.  Cars were meant to be driven.  The one thing I wonder about is if the Pace car mkt is about 5 yrs away from going up?  Today 79 Trans Ams values are going up and it seems the 71-73 Mustangs are too.  Could the tide on the Pace car be a few yrs out from going up?  Would hate to sell mine now after all these yrs and then miss a mkt upturn by 3 or 4 yrs.

[svo2scj]

You know YOU have kept this car so long AND you haven't ruined it (yet) !!  It's ok to maybe do tune up stuff with that junk - BUT SO SO many great cars get ruined when an owner REPLACES everything with what can be bought at AutoZone etc!

Many would pay a premium to get original calipers, cylinders (so they can rebuild)!    I see cars all the time that owners JUST replaced starter, Alternator and distributor (and lost the date coded originals for $10 cores).   Hell I would pay the fee and keep them!

Anyway - still don't know where you are!   Valve seals take just a compressor and a special tool.   (or a rope and BIG pry bar -if you don't have tools for 2.3's)
Mark

[husker boxster]

Mark, thanks for your insights.  So the purple neon underbody lights I ordered are a No-No?

I posted my question because I was hoping to get some suggestions to solve a nagging problem.  I felt I should provide some background since I'm new to the forum.  If I've misled anyone on my willingness to sell, I apologize and hope I can clear things up.  I want to get her ready to sell at the auction.

I am located in Omaha, NE.

[husker boxster]

I'm deleting this post as it wasn't germane to the topic of the starter.

[svo2scj]

RUNNING RIGHT is important (that is why I said tune up is ok)
It is also why I said "get started" !   (April will be here in no time)

Let us know how it looks when you get from Mom's  (I'm going to guess that more and more work will ensue once you get it baselined again for sitting)  Bad Gas and Mice are always my biggest set back from sitting.   You can drop tanks and drain gas BUT mice smells - that is a different story.

Believe me I was "supporting you" !!   But now I think I should switch to "building another garage" support.  LOL
Too bad I don't run I80 in the winter - I would stop by and do the belt and seals! 

Mark
P.S. I would start with the battery ground - replace and confirm that stud is tight to block.   (if you do both at the same time you will not know which it was)  I have seen cables go bad INSIDE the plastic covers (looking OK isn't a true test for carrying current under load)

[husker boxster]

Too bad I don't run I80 in the winter - I would stop by and do the belt and seals! 

Thanks.  That's a generous offer.  I'd be willing to learn.  And I hold a mean trouble light.   

A bigger garage would be nice, but I don't need the bigger house that comes with it.  I paid off my house 4 yrs ago and I don't feel like going in debt for another 15 yrs.  Instead I like to spend my $$$ on expensive foreign sports cars.  Guess it's just where I'm at in my life.  I also like to keep my debt to a reasonable level.  My Boxster was paid off earlier this yr and I only owe $2k on the 07 Cayman.  When I get it sold, I'll prob only owe $10K on the 08 Cayman.  I'm at that prime age where I could be "downsized" but it wouldn't quite be age discrimination.  Not that I see that coming but you never know.  I've survived 4 downsizings in my 31 yrs at my job, so it can happen.  Don't want to get caught with my pants down owing a pile of money for a basic need like a house.  Better to just keep the toy inventory at the proper levels.

Here's a pic of my Porsche inventory.  The burgundy Cayman is the 07 for sale.  The green one is the 08 I just bought.

[priceless]

......If someone here on the forum says "By the way, I would absolutely enjoy owning your pacecar", I interpret that to mean they want to buy my car.......  But that was not the intention of my post.......

I'm sorry you interpreted that way, If you read my original first reply, What I Didn't say was," Hey, I absolutely want to "Buy" your pacecar, and let's talk about a price", and I also went on to tell a little history some 30+ years ago and that I thought the those Mustangs was a cool piece of history.

Sorry, If you took it that I said I wanted to "buy" your pacecar....That wasn't my intention.

[husker boxster]

No problem.  You clarified in your second reply.

I blew off the driveway to the garage in Mom's basement yesterday.  Need a couple days of sun to get it totally cleared.  Hoping to start on Sat.  Will drain the gas and go from there.

Happy New Year to everyone!