ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: Brian Conway on September 28, 2015, 12:50:03 PM
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My 65, San Jose, GT fastback has had a T-10, HEK-V, in it for decades. I would like to ask you guys to help me out with what would have been the most likely assembly line transmission for this car. I have posted a picture of the Door Warranty Plate. I have the Dealerships Registered Owner Plan and that indicates the car was registered and picked up May 29, 1965. My research indicates the correct trans. might be:
HEH-BX Close Ratio with a C4ZR-7A040 Tail shaft ? Opinions ,corrections or suggestions please.
The car has had a T-10 in it, to my knowledge, since at least 1968. I have posted a picture of that HEK-V tag. With the correct Toploader trans will I need to change the shifter rods ? Thanks, Brian
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HEH-BX is the later K code transmission, introduced sometime in the '66 model year.
The correct toploader for the time period your car was made and used in an A or C code was an HEH-BT, which is a wide ratio. As to whether or not the T10 is original to your car, guess you would have to inspect the T-10 case to determine any date markings.
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My much later (9/65) San Jose car had a T-10 in it. And yes, the shift rods are different between T-10 and Toploader.
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Thank you guys. My resources are limited so this input has been a great help. The Mustang Tek site has the HEH-BT listed as a close ratio trans.. The 65 Shop Manual Has the HEH-P listed and the 66 Shop Manual has the HEH-BT listed as a wide ratio. So I'll figure my, mid to late production, 65 car may have gotten the HEH-BT wide ratio trans.
Jim's Sept. 65 car with the T-10 is great news. I may not need to be looking for another trans and rods after all ? The last time I tried to read the date stamp on the case was not a real success. Got the middle number 2 clearly and that was all. I'll have to give it another try.
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Yeah, the online resources are wrong that HEH-BT is a close ratio. I had one and can tell you it was definitely wide ratio, counted the gear teeth to be sure.
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The T 10 in my 65 has a date code that I will need some help with ? Thanks, Brian
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Check on the inspection cover on the other side. Believe it will have a cast in date code, dots with a year, like '65'.
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First thanks for the help. Took a look at the shifter plate and found the very small round casting you suggested I look for. A number 2 over 4 dots over a number 65 all in the circle and rearward of the ' T-10 ' casting. Brian
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Looks like it could be the original, if the date code means April '65.
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It appears to be the original and that's nice. The meaning of the number 2 is unknown and the aluminum shift plate is unexpected ? It still pops out of 2nd when decelerating but nothing new there. Thanks, Brian
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First thanks for the help. Took a look at the shifter plate and found the very small round casting you suggested I look for. A number 2 over 4 dots over a number 65 all in the circle and rearward of the ' T-10 ' casting. Brian
Holy Crap! My 65 GT that I had from 1968-1977 was RDM 470!
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This car and plate have always been in San Diego. The plate frame shows the dealership which is about 4 blocks from where me and the car live now. Dealership is long gone but was once a big player in San Diego. So where was your plate issued ? Brian
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Conventional wisdom and other sources, maintain that top loaders were used in all production Mustangs for 64 and 65, with T-10 transmissions also used in 1966 because of the high demand for 4 speeds. The exception is Shelby.
My much later (9/65) San Jose car had a T-10 in it.
Your car is a 66 so a T-10 would be a viable substitution. I had a T-10 in a March 66 San Jose Fastback.
The car has had a T-10 in it, to my knowledge, since at least 1968.
That leaves 65 thru 67 to have a replacement installed.
It still pops out of 2nd when decelerating but nothing new there.
The close ratio T-10 in my 64 Fairlane 289HP popped out of second too. I think it was a "feature" (or an operator problem).
Jim
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This car and plate have always been in San Diego. The plate frame shows the dealership which is about 4 blocks from where me and the car live now. Dealership is long gone but was once a big player in San Diego. So where was your plate issued ? Brian
I bought my 65 GT Coupe second hand in 1968, so I do not know where it was sold. And yes, it was also from the San Diego area (El Cajon). Pearson Ford was where I usually took it for service back then.
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El Cajon is still there can't say the same for Pearson Ford.
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Brain,
Also take a look at the machined area at the rear of the main case behind the side cover for an assembly date stamping.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-cikDJQGjcVU/U5eFkd_AM-I/AAAAAAABIQc/EYGVyLhtWNQ/s400-Ic42/IMG_7241.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-29-AgTz8pQc/U5eFlWbfohI/AAAAAAABIQg/A59uDZTC2AY/s400-Ic42/IMG_7242.JPG)
The above example is from a '66 GT350. This particular date is decoded as C=March 1=1st day (of March) 6=1966 2=?...maybe shift # or inspector #?
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Thank you Brant. Took a look and sure enough the case does have a stamp in that spot. Very clearly; C 2451. No Idea what it means. Brian
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Thank you Brant. Took a look and sure enough the case does have a stamp in that spot. Very clearly; C 2451. No Idea what it means. Brian
Based upon what Brant indicated, that looks to be March 24, 1965, shift 1?
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Well thanks for taking a look at that stamp and the date reading. Certainly a dating format that I am not familiar with. So far it's been an education. Brian
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Brian,
My May 15 San Jose GT has a T-10 in it as well.
Steve
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Based upon what Brant indicated, that looks to be March 24, 1965, shift 1?
I agree March 24, 1965.
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Thanks Brant for the dating confirmation. It seems I have two dates for my T-10. Assembly date March 24,1965 and the shifter plate casting date April 1965. I didn't know either of those dates were there until you guys told me where to look. Thanks. Steve has a T-10 in his May 15,1965 car and that does add some interest to my question ? Thanks for posting that info. Jim has a T-10 in his September,1966 car. These are all San Jose cars so, it would seem, these transmissions were certainly around. Add a few more cars to the list and we may be onto something ? Thanks, Brian
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Here's what the '75 MPC shows for applications. I did not include the 6-cyl applications on the preceeding page.
F/4/S = Ford
W/4/S = Warner
The star symbol indicates not serviced as a unit (by parts only).
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Since there are apparently some T-10 "gurus" out there, maybe someone can help me. I have heard, and/ or read, that only the earlier bell housings will accept the T-10 transmission. In addition, I have also heard that the bell housing that will accept the T-10 will only bolt up to an early 289 block. Is this correct info ? If so, how can I tell (without taking out the existing transmission of course) if my November (1965) 1966 Mustang has this bell housing ? If I do not have the correct bell housing, do I have any options for being able to "bolt on" a T-10 to my existing 289 ?
Thanks for the help,
Bob
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Since there are apparently some T-10 "gurus" out there, maybe someone can help me. I have heard, and/ or read, that only the earlier bell housings will accept the T-10 transmission. In addition, I have also heard that the bell housing that will accept the T-10 will only bolt up to an early 289 block. Is this correct info ? If so, how can I tell (without taking out the existing transmission of course) if my November (1965) 1966 Mustang has this bell housing ? If I do not have the correct bell housing, do I have any options for being able to "bolt on" a T-10 to my existing 289 ?
Thanks for the help,
Bob
I am by no means a T-10 "guru", but I can confirm a few things for you. The T-10 will bolt up to the 6-bolt 289 bell housing. Just like the early Toploader, early T-10's had a narrow bolt pattern transmission case which matched the early 5-bolt 260/289 bell housings, C3AA-6394-C. The late '65-On T-10's had a wider bolt pattern transmission case, as did the late Toploaders. My '66 fastback (Metuchen plant, Oct. '65 sched. date), came equipped with a T-10 and is the 6-bolt bell housing, C5DA-6394-A.
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Thanks for the info; however, I'm a little confused. When you say "The T-10 will bolt up to a 6 bolt bell housing", are you referring to Brian's T-10 ? I'm not sure what to think of mine. The cover has " 1 3 62" stamped on it (which I assume is January 3, 1962), yet the case, to the right (rear) of the cover, is stamped " M271-2", which using Brant's example would be "December 2, 1967. shift or inspection # 2". I had always thought that mine was the earlier T- 10 (it did not come with my November built Metuchen 1966 Coupe - I bought it for a Y-block back in the late 60's as it bolts right up to a Y-block bell housing). The top two bolt holes on the case are about 5-1/8" inches apart, the bottom two are about 6-3/8" apart, and the vertical spacing is about 7-1/4". Is this "early or late ? Do I need the C3 or C5 bell housing ? Finally, how can I tell which mine is - can I see the casting number from the engine compartment ? from under the car ? Is there a "giveaway" as th whether it is 5 bolt or 6 bolt by just looking at it from the top of the engine compartment ?
Thanks again for the help.
Bob
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Sorry for any confusion. I was referring to your T-10 (hence my quoting your post). If your T-10 bolts to a Y-block bellhousing, it's probably an "early" transmission. The bolt pattern for it should be in a vertical rectangular shape. The "later" T-10's had a more horizontal rectangular pattern. One disclaimer though, T-10's also came with dual pattern cases meaning there are 8 holes which will bolt up to either pattern bellhousing.
You can find the bellhousing number cast onto the exterior passenger side "dome" where the starter is located.
Here's a couple of reference pics from the Mustang Tek website which illustrates the difference in bolt patterns:
Early 5 bolt bellhousing (notice the bolt pattern for the transmission.Also the location of the casting number)-
http://mustangtek.com/Bellhousings/C3AA-6394-C.html (http://mustangtek.com/Bellhousings/C3AA-6394-C.html)
6 bolt bellhousing (again compare the transmission bolt pattern. )-
http://mustangtek.com/Bellhousings/C5DA-6394-A.html (http://mustangtek.com/Bellhousings/C5DA-6394-A.html)
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JK : Yes, that helps a lot. Mine is definitely the "vertical" rectangle pattern and not the "horizontal. And it only has the 4 holes. Now the question is, will the 6 bolt, C% bell housing bolt up to my November 1966 289 block ? In the meantime, I am going to see if I can locate the casting number on my '66 bell housing (the car is in a precarious postion, my garage, but I'll give it a try.
Thanks again for the help,
Bob
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Like to re-visit this discussion concerning the HEH-V, T-10 in my Late May 1965 San Jose car. I will be pulling the trans for a rebuilt next week. This would be an opportunity to fully inspect the case and contents for any other clues concerning assembly line installed or not. Does the shifter assembly or rods hold any details that I could document ? Suggestions on what to look for and where to look will be helpful. Any advice will be appreciated.. Thanks, Brian
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Got the trans out and can see much better what's there. The shifter plate date clearly is 4 dots and 65. A picture of the assembly date stamp. Something new is a stamped C A A. Located on the upper left mounting extension. Looked very closely and there doesn't seem to be any other letters or numbers ? Another clue may be the 1/2" thick aluminum spacer plate between the case and tailshaft ? Anyone familiar with this C A A stamping method or code ? Thanks, Brian
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Brian
For reference
The date numbers from the T10 4 speed in my 65 GT
E255 1
May 25th 1965
Shift1
Cheers
Peter
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Had the T-10 trans w/HEK-V tag rebuilt and learned a couple of things. This is a WIDE RATIO trans. Earlier I had miss identified it. The speedometer drive gear is the 6 tooth variety. Brian
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Was going through threads to try and determine which 4 speed my blue fastback came with originally. Brian, your car is built about 3 days before mine and is also caspian blue but not a GT. Am I safe to assume my car would of had a t10 transmission in it as well?
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Can't help with a definitive answer. Do seem to be a number of members with similar dates, T-10's and the same question ? At this time gathering supporting information for an early assembly line installation of the T-10 is in progress ? Brian http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=19730.msg124673#msg124673