ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: drummingrocks on October 14, 2017, 08:55:23 AM
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I have a '67 coupe that came with the painted rear bumper guards. Prior to me buying the car, someone removed the bumper guards but left the brackets behind the valence, then replaced the rear valence with one with cutouts for factory dual exhaust. Did Ford offer this configuration as an option (exhaust tip cutouts on the valence, plus bumper guards), or were the rear bumper guards only available with the single exhaust rear valence?
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All 67 Mustangs came with chromed front and painted rear bumperette guards. (68's were an option, depending on build date).
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If your 67 is a street driver all is well. You can configure it as you wish.
According to a number of sources (including those here http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=9102.15 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=9102.15)) only S-codes and K-codes got factory dual exhaust (with the valance cut-outs).
Look at any 67 GT350 to see a factory install of valance and rear bumperettes.
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only S-codes and K-codes got factory dual exhaust (with the valance cut-outs).
It is a bit more restrictive - an S-code non GT had dual exhaust with turn down tips, not the valence cut-out quad bright tips.
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It is a bit more restrictive - an S-code non GT had dual exhaust with turn down tips, not the valence cut-out quad bright tips.
Since you mentioned restriction (acknowledge turn down is hardly any as mentioned) the transverse muffler AKA gas tank heater is the most restrictive aspect and is on all duel exhaust 67's. Everything else is just a footnote in comparison of restrictions .
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Bob, my use of wording was confusing. I did not mean restrictive as in flow, I meant to say that the quad tips was restricted (limited) to the GT/GTA when the 390 was involved.
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Good to know!
I'm not sure I've seen a non-GT S-code car in years.
There have been so many retrofits of this valance onto cars it's confusing.
My 67 GTA A-code had the cutout valance (valence sp is correct too) which was a retrofit.
Had to be since it was originally a single exhaust car.
So in summary for 1967 we have:
C code - single exhaust
C code GT - single exhaust
A code - single exhaust
A code GT - single exhaust
K code - dual exhaust On edit -- GT was a mandatory option for K code cars.
K code GT/Shelby GT350 - dual exhaust and cutouts (K GT had quad tips)
Shelby GT350 had difference valance versions and two different bologna tip versions
S code- dual exhaust w/turndowns
S code GT - dual exhaust and cutouts w/quad tips
Shelby 428 GT500 had difference valance versions and two different bologna tips
[on edit - strike out K code non-GT]
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Good to know!
I'm not sure I've seen a non-GT S-code car in years.
There have been so many retrofits of this valance onto cars it's confusing.
My 67 GTA A-code had the cutout valance (valence sp is correct too) which was a retrofit.
Had to be since it was originally a single exhaust car.
So in summary for 1967 we have:
C code - single exhaust
C code GT - single exhaust
A code - single exhaust
A code GT - single exhaust
K code - dual exhaust
K code GT/Shelby GT350 - dual exhaust and cutouts
(K GT had quad tips?)
Shelby GT350 had difference valance versions and two different bologna tip versions
S code- dual exhaust
S code GT - dual exhaust and cutouts w/quad tips
Shelby 428 GT500 had difference valance versions and two different bologna tips
The only issue, and it is minor, is that I think in 67 all 289 HIPOs had to be ordered with the GT equipment group option, so the "K code - dual exhaust" (no cutouts/quad tips) would not have happened.
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I've read the 67 Illustrated Facts Guide a number of times, but I seem to have missed the last page's RPO listing for the K-code line item "(with GT Equip Only)".
I've updated the list of dual exhausts above to reflect that.
Thanks!
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I'm not sure I've seen a non-GT S-code car in years.
Here are a couple of shots of a 390 Non-GT Fastback that I owned in the early 1980's...
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I've read the 67 Illustrated Facts Guide a number of times, but I seem to have missed the last page's RPO listing for the K-code line item "(with GT Equip Only)".
As a side note or question - Does anyone know where the information that makes up all the Illustrated Facts Guides came from and who put them together originally? Always wondered they have been around for sale since the Mustang Does It days .
Not to take use too far off thread - just a quick question. :)
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Here are a couple of shots of a 390 Non-GT Fastback that I owned in the early 1980's...
Those tips look to be a replacement. They are straight cut and don't appear rolled on the end the same as the factory. They seem to stick out too far under the valance also.
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As a side note or question - Does anyone know where the information that makes up all the Illustrated Facts Guides came from and who put them together originally? Always wondered they have been around for sale since the Mustang Does It days .
Not to take use too far off thread - just a quick question. :)
I had heard once that Ford supplied the statistics on a yearly basis for marketing/shareholder use. I have also heard that there were a few guys that were able to get query results from Ford back in the 70's.
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The "Illustrated Facts" book, under the heading of "Engine Exhaust Systems" is certainly confusing.
On page 29 is this gem:
"All Mustang GT models are equipped with a dual exhaust system. This system consists of dual exhaust pipes, and [sic] equalizer pipe, dual "node" chambers and resonators, dual exhaust outlet pipes, and dual chrome exhaust outlet tips extending under [my emphasis] the rear modesty panel. This same system, with the exception of the chrome exhaust tips, is included on all other Mustangs equipped with the 289 - cubic - inch High - Performance V - 8. All other Mustangs are equipped with a single exhaust system."
The page then has a chart that obliterates a lot of what was just said and shows only 289 Hi-Po and 390 cars got dual exhaust.
So, the first sentence is wrong (according to the chart).
The paragraph indicates that all exhaust goes under [my emphasis] the modesty panel (aka valance/valence) and then goes to say the Hi-Po does not get the dual outlet pipes. I wondered where I got that idea from.
Page 22 say the the GT Equipment group includes " . . . -- plus dual exhaust system with bright "quad" extensions [not "dual . . . tips"] on 390 and 289 High - Performance V - 8".
Then finally, and appearing nowhere else is the note on page 30 that the Hi-Po is available only "(with GT Equip. Only)"
This whole business of what is correct with respect to dual exhaust has been muddled by the "facts" book.
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The "Illustrated Facts" book, under the heading of "Engine Exhaust Systems" is certainly confusing.
On page 29 is this gem:
"All Mustang GT models are equipped with a dual exhaust system. This system consists of dual exhaust pipes, and [sic] equalizer pipe, dual "node" chambers and resonators, dual exhaust outlet pipes, and dual chrome exhaust outlet tips extending under [my emphasis] the rear modesty panel. This same system, with the exception of the chrome exhaust tips, is included on all other Mustangs equipped with the 289 - cubic - inch High - Performance V - 8. All other Mustangs are equipped with a single exhaust system."
The page then has a chart that obliterates a lot of what was just said and shows only 289 Hi-Po and 390 cars got dual exhaust.
So, the first sentence is wrong (according to the chart).
The paragraph indicates that all exhaust goes under [my emphasis] the modesty panel (aka valance/valence) and then goes to say the Hi-Po does not get the dual outlet pipes. I wondered where I got that idea from.
Page 22 say the the GT Equipment group includes " . . . -- plus dual exhaust system with bright "quad" extensions [not "dual . . . tips"] on 390 and 289 High - Performance V - 8".
Then finally, and appearing nowhere else is the note on page 30 that the Hi-Po is available only "(with GT Equip. Only)"
This whole business of what is correct with respect to dual exhaust has been muddled by the "facts" book.
A interesting 67 rear valence tidbit. Shelby American had to improvise to begin with on the blank rear valance because of the duel exhaust exhaust tips used on all regular production 67 Shelby cars. The early production cars had to have the rear valance cut out by SA employees and modified with a made up trim ring using left over 66 exhaust parts because the duel exhaust rear valance had not been released yet. Once Ford released the new part the Shelby's were built at Ford like all other Mustangs that got the duel exhaust rear valance.
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That's really cool, Bob.
I saw your post about the different Shelby styles in the Saac forum.
Here is a "Hints from Heloise" on the rear valance when you do body work or replace the rear quarters.
Always install the rear valance when putting new quarters on the car or the car has been hit in the rear and you are affecting repair.
If you don't you may find that the valance is either too wide or too narrow as the quarters can move in and out quite a bit during install or repair.
Ask my 65 modified fastback how I know about that.
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Here is a "Hints from Heloise" on the rear valance when you do body work or replace the rear quarters.
Always install the rear valance when putting new quarters on the car or the car has been hit in the rear and you are affecting repair.
If you don't you may find that the valance is either too wide or too narrow as the quarters can move in and out quite a bit during install or repair...
Agree, and this using assembly line valances too! BEWARE also of the aftermarket (and perhaps service replacements) since at least (a majority of) the aftermarket valances, are well-known to be too short and do not reach. I've seen some very bad looking gaps on the show field.
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A interesting 67 rear valence tidbit. Shelby American had to improvise to begin with on the blank rear valance because of the duel exhaust exhaust tips used on all regular production 67 Shelby cars. The early production cars had to have the rear valance cut out by SA employees and modified with a made up trim ring using left over 66 exhaust parts because the duel exhaust rear valance had not been released yet. Once Ford released the new part the Shelby's were built at Ford like all other Mustangs that got the duel exhaust rear valance.
That's pretty wild! I've never seen one equipped like that, with the '66 style trim reused on the '67 valence.
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That's pretty wild! I've never seen one equipped like that, with the '66 style trim reused on the '67 valence.
Here are a couple of handy examples of this early 67 Shelby practice. Not to get to far off thread
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-191017220032-8955402.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-191017220031-89541597.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-191017220030-89531337.jpeg)
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Good to know!
I'm not sure I've seen a non-GT S-code car in years.
There have been so many retrofits of this valance onto cars it's confusing.
My 67 GTA A-code had the cutout valance (valence sp is correct too) which was a retrofit.
Had to be since it was originally a single exhaust car.
So in summary for 1967 we have:
C code - single exhaust
C code GT - single exhaust
A code - single exhaust
A code GT - single exhaust
K code - dual exhaust On edit -- GT was a mandatory option for K code cars.
K code GT/Shelby GT350 - dual exhaust and cutouts (K GT had quad tips)
Shelby GT350 had difference valance versions and two different bologna tip versions
S code- dual exhaust w/turndowns
S code GT - dual exhaust and cutouts w/quad tips
Shelby 428 GT500 had difference valance versions and two different bologna tips
[on edit - strike out K code non-GT]
In summarizing the Exhaust Options for 1967, we should not ignore the Dealer Option/ Accessory Dual Exhaust System (Part # C5ZZ-5210-A) that was available from 1965-68 for all Single Exhaust 260, 289 and 302's. The turned down tips were included with this Kit. This showed up as an Accessory for Mustangs in late 1965,and is noted as such in the 1967 MPC and in the 1960-68 MPC. It was also promoted in the 1966 Ford High Performance Catalog. Its list price was a "whopping" $58.45, not including installation.
Bob
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As a side note or question - Does anyone know where the information that makes up all the Illustrated Facts Guides came from and who put them together originally? Always wondered they have been around for sale since the Mustang Does It days .
Not to take use too far off thread - just a quick question. :)
Jeff : I believe that I can answer your question. Back in the late 70's, sometime after I purchased my 1966, I bought a "1966 Mustang Illustrated Facts, Guide and Specifications" book. Interestingly, there was no date on its publication, nor any note of whom it was published by. In the early 80's, shortly after getting my '67, I purchase the "1967 Mustang Illustrated Facts" book. Now, noted on the cover, was "Compiled by the Editors of Mustang Monthly". Then, a few years later, in my Swap Meet travels, I came across a three ring Binder that contained several , differently "tabbed" sections. It appeared that 3 different publications had been put into one binder, and each was complete. One of these sections was for 1965 Ford Models. In looking at the Mustang section, the pages were strikingly similar (except for Model Year differences of course) to my "1966 Illustrated Facts".
In looking at the entire section of all the different Models, it finally hit me. This was the mid-sixties version of Ford's "All the Facts" books. These began being published by Ford in the early 50's (the oldest one I have seen is 1952) as softbound booklets (sizes vary 5 x 7 and 5 x 8) to give Salesmen an overall view of each years models. In 1957, these became a hardback (8 x 10-1/2), multi-flat ring binder that had tabs separating the different Models, Engines, Accessories, etc. This format was used through at least 1960. Then, I believe in 1961, the "All the Facts" changed to full 8-1/2 x 11 size, loose leaf sheets tabbed for a 3-ring binder. Sometime between 1961 and 1974, the name changed to "Ford Product Facts Book". Unfortunately, since I did not get the correct binder with my 1965 "guts", I can't narrow that change down any tighter. Another name change occurred sometime between 1985 and 2000, when it went from "Ford Product Facts Book" to "2xxx Source Book". While the name seemed to drastically change, the information provided was basically the same.
Being a Ford publication that appears to have provided all of the material for the different year "Illustrated Facts", may explain why no one wanted to take credit for publishing my 1966 one. I have noticed that now, other than older copies on Ebay, etc., the "Illustrated Facts" now being sold note that they are "Ford Licensed".
I have attached pictures of the first few pages of my 1965 set, as well as the first couple pages of its Mustang Section, and a few "evolutionary" pictures of "All the Facts" books.
Hope this gives you the "facts" (pun intended) that you were looking for.
Bob
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In summarizing the Exhaust Options for 1967, we should not ignore the Dealer Option/ Accessory Dual Exhaust System (Part # C5ZZ-5210-A) that was available from 1965-68 for all Single Exhaust 260, 289 and 302's. The turned down tips were included with this Kit. This showed up as an Accessory for Mustangs in late 1965,and is noted as such in the 1967 MPC and in the 1960-68 MPC. It was also promoted in the 1966 Ford High Performance Catalog. Its list price was a "whopping" $58.45, not including installation.
Bob
The problem with that idea is that the set you describe is designed for a 65 /66 . If applied to a 67/68 body style there are modifications challenges. It may be in the 67 and 68 MPC but I don't believe it mentioned it was for the 67/68 body style. I have never read where it was intended for the 67/68 body style. If you find that it ha let me know. i would be interested to see what it says about fitment. Although I have never had a reason to attempt such a installation I have a NOS 65/66 intermediate pipe and a 67/68 intermediate pipe sitting next to each other on the floor for comparison and I can tell it would be interesting to say the least.
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In summarizing the Exhaust Options for 1967, we should not ignore the Dealer Option/ Accessory Dual Exhaust System (Part # C5ZZ-5210-A) that was available from 1965-68 for all Single Exhaust 260, 289 and 302's.....................
Was allot easier for the dealer or owner to just go to Sears or Midas (possibly cheaper) and have them put on a system. Seems to ahve at least been the choice for a number of dealers where the new buyer wanted dual exhaust on their new car.
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The problem with that idea is that the set you describe is designed for a 65 /66 . If applied to a 67/68 body style there are modifications challenges. It may be in the 67 and 68 MPC but I don't believe it mentioned it was for the 67/68 body style. I have never read where it was intended for the 67/68 body style. If you find that it ha let me know. i would be interested to see what it says about fitment. Although I have never had a reason to attempt such a installation I have a NOS 65/66 intermediate pipe and a 67/68 intermediate pipe sitting next to each other on the floor for comparison and I can tell it would be interesting to say the least.
Bob : I appreciate what you are saying, in particular in comparing factory (or factory replacement) intermediate pipes. However, notice that the parts shown in the list are not Service Part Numbers, but Rotunda (Generic) Part Numbers which imply that they are "universal" parts. So either these "universal" parts could fit all 1965-68 Mustangs, or possibly a suffix was added to the C5ZZ-5210-A (such as C5ZZ-5210-A2, or C5ZZ-5210-AA) which allowed for more specific application parts; we'll probably never know, as chances of someone "out there" having one of these Kits, much less the Instructions for one, are pretty slim.
The fact remains that the C5ZZ-5210-A Dual Exhaust Kit was shown as available for 1965-68 Mustangs. This statement is based on the following :
1) It is shown in the Accessories Section of the "1967 Only Parts and Accessories Catalog"(MPC). Ideally, single year MPC's have anything that applies specifically to previous year only eliminated from parts listings.
2) The Accessories Section of the 1960-68 MPC shows the C5ZZ-5210-A Kit as applicable for "65/ " which means "1965 Up".
3) The March 1, 1968 "Autolite-Ford High Performance Parts List" notes even more specifically that the C5ZZ-5210-A Cobra Dual Exhaust Kit is available for "65/68 Cougar, Mustang".
Both the December, 1966 Dealer Price List" and the March 1,1968 Price List included with the "Autolite-Ford High Performance Parts List" show only the C5ZZ-5210-A part number for a Mustang Dual Exhaust Kit.
While we know that mistakes are made frequently in what is included in Ford Publications, I would find it extremely unlikely that this would have occurred in 3 different publications.
As I noted, unfortunately we'll probably never know the exact details on this Accessory. Therefore, I'll just say that it was shown as available.
(Attachment furnished for General Information)
Was allot easier for the dealer or owner to just go to Sears or Midas (possibly cheaper) and have them put on a system. Seems to ahve at least been the choice for a number of dealers where the new buyer wanted dual exhaust on their new car.
Jeff : I would agree that many times, that is exactly what was done. However, even "back then" there were some of us that "bled blue" and wouldn't settle for aftermarket parts. If I would have been told that the C5ZZ-5210-A Kit was not available for my '67, I just would have ordered the necessary factory service parts for Dual Exhaust and put together my own "Kit".
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I suppose you can chalk it up to a mistake in the MPC or as we see many times in the real world the difference between what something says in the book and what happened in real life. The fact that there is a difference in the H pipe between 65/66 and 67 regardless of if 289 or 289 HP shows that the orientation of the intermediate pipes would be different between a 65/66 and a 67/68. That coupled with hanger mounting points on the pipes and tip orientation would be different. Certainly more trouble and hence inherent cost then a muffler shop install. Universal exhaust maybe but given that it could hardly be seen as a legitimate option for 67 anymore then any Ford item available to a dealer to be installed on a car after the fact could be considered a legitimate option. I suppose you could add Tri Y headers ,Webers and any number of things to the list given the possible usage on a given application as well as the needed modifications that would be needed to make it work in the same way as the "universal " exhaust. If you are going to assign legitimacy you might as well give muffler shop a place on that list while you are at it too IMO.
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I was searching for some other piece of paper and came across the Ford letter you could ask for in the late 1990's (Oct 12, 1999) where they detailed your car's option list.
It was through the Ford Customer Assistance Center.
The car was my daily driver in the 1990s and is now owned by my son. It is a 7R02A149xxx GTA Fastback (w/GT equipment group), 3.00 rear axle, fold down seat, p/s, AM radio, 1967 exterior decor group, deluxe seat belts, 55 amp battery, and steel style wheels. All listed on the sheet.
The kicker is that GT equipment group is listed as having "fog lamps, special ornamentation, power disc brakes, heavy duty suspension, stripes, dual exhaust system with bright extensions."
I understand the hobby has declared the exhaust part to be fiction.
But, if we wonder where this kind of stuff comes from, Ford was not helping out much.
It makes me want to run a Marti on this car!
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The kicker is that GT equipment group is listed as having "fog lamps, special ornamentation, power disc brakes, heavy duty suspension, stripes, dual exhaust system with bright extensions."
I understand the hobby has declared the exhaust part to be fiction.
But, if we wonder where this kind of stuff comes from, Ford was not helping out much.
Don't think its fiction in that some models (engine option determined) did come with that part of the package. Likely just part of some ad speak the minimum wage employee that was assigned to the Ford 999 reports was instructed to add to the description or that the computer spit out. A few years back there was something Ford put out that basically stated that Boss 302's were the only Ford to receive blocks with VINs stamped in them. Of course the person writing this stuff wasn't likely born until 15-20 years after the fact/time period ::)