ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: roddster on July 30, 2011, 10:24:49 AM
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I'm pretty sure I already know the answer to this. I recently purchased a late October 1966 built 67 S code coupe. The top upper door hinges seem to be the later stamped ones. Seems this is not correct, the car should have all four cast hinges. Am I right about this? If so, I've got some time to find the correct hinges. The resto on this starts next year. Thanks.
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Rod, I believe that is correct but I'm not 100% as to the changeover date
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Rod, my December 20, 1966 San Jose car originally had all four cast hinges. I replaced an upper one in 1981 with a stamped version, and have a cast version to put back on soon. John
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Looking at my collection it appears that the change over was sometime in the 166442-175363 Sorry I don't have Marti reports for all the real build dates. The pictures show 7R189290 and 7R195363 as having cast upper hinges and 7R166442 and 7R175087 as having stamped ones
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I'm trying to sort out this changeover date for San Jose's too, though I may be already OK on my inventory. My San Jose 11/2/66 build date vin 1274** car looks to have come with the split design on the door hinges. I do not ever remember ever changing anything on the drivers door hinges and the upper was the stamped steel,while the lower was cast. The right side door right now are both cast, but I know I changed the right door and hinges back in '78 because the car was sideswiped when I bought it. I am happy I was given the 2nd set of doors about 18 years ago that both seem to have the correct split design hinges. I'll look again at those doors in storage and if I find a data tag with a vin, I'll post those numbers too. Going back to the door that has BOTH upper and lowers made from cast, I have no idea what plant the car was built at, but I got the right door, the hinges, the right fender (no headlamp housing) the right side spindle and right lower control arm all from the same car that hadn't yet been painted. These parts were found in a salvage yard in Fontana Ca., so more likely also a SJ build. I know there are date codes on the fender and assume there are date codes on all the other parts too. Since I'll be dismantling it to go on the rotisserie within a few weeks, I'll see what I find out as I go over these items in restoration. If anybody has interest in my findings, chime in and I'll try and PM you what I find out.
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I have some of the original cast door hinges if you need them
Bob
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Subject is a few years old - guess we can do another survey of examples to see if something new pops up ;)
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Subject is a few years old - guess we can do another survey of examples to see if something new pops up ;)
Kinda what I was thinking. Mostly thinking there is some discrepencies in this post. I absolutley know, without a doubt, that my right door was changed in '78 and I installed a door with both cast hinges. I REMEMBER clearly that they were different at the time, but could care less as a teenager. I am OK with going either way myself, as long as they are the same but would really like to get it right for sure while I'm at it.I'm pretty sure I already know the answer to this. I recently purchased a late October 1966 built 67 S code coupe. The top upper door hinges seem to be the later stamped ones.
I read this, and this quote matches perfectly to all of what I remember about my car which is a Nov. 2nd, 66 (really close)
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Ok for input into the survey-
Include VIN or assembly plant and build date for your findings.
From there we'll see what sort of pattern shows up
Going to take time for me to go through the hundreds I've got - hopefully many will have shots of the hinge areas :o
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I checked the pair of doors I've had kicking around for last 18 years and I do have a data plate with dates etc.
7R01S1516** vin, so it's a SJ 390 Coupe
13M date, scheduled build date December 13th, 66, other features are DSO 71, C-6 trans, 3:00 open differential
As I said earlier, these doors also have the stamped uppers, yet cast lowers, just like what is still on the (never changed) drivers door of my sched. build,Nov. 1, actual built Nov.2nd. Looks like a concistancy for the SJ coupes at least from late October thru mid December by my findings and an earlier post by roddster. 67gta289 seems to complicate these findings though. btw, These doors in storage have never been repainted and are the original lime gold. Hinges show no signs of having been removed from the doors before.
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VIN = 7R03S110###
Plant = San Jose
Actual Build Date = 9/22/1966
Door Hinge Type = Cast (both upper and lower)
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It looks to me like these hinges must fit other older model Fords too, possibly 66's? and they ran the inventory till they depleted the stock on hand, running out of the uppers first, switching the lower from cast at a later, yet to be determined date.
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UPDATE: I pulled the fenders & doors this morning, and found IMHO proof that indeed my drivers side UPPER ONLY, is supposed to be the stamped steel, while the lower is cast. Other owners seem to provide evidence that other original cars built in SJ AFTER mine, have hinges that are both the cast type. (uppers and lowers)
The "smoking gun" for my car having the upper as original, that is, not a replacement hinge, is the dumb-dumb sealant still stuck to the top of the hinge. I can scratch through the paint on the dumb-dumb sealant to check it further, but unless this sealant was maticulously done while the car was like new, say at a dealership to stop up a cowl leak (Barstow California Desert area...not likely) AND while they were in there changed BOTH of the upper hinges AND repainted them to match perfectly AND the other set of doors with the same type of hinges I have (steel upper, cast lower) dated Mid December had BOTH upper hinges replaced too AND was maticulously repainted...Yeah, a little far fetched!
It looks to me that the assembly line workers must have begun using the stamped type for a while and possibly went back to the cast type for a stretch of time. As for my car, I am going back to how it was built, possibly against what judges might wish to see on my hinges, given it's build date. I already have another set to replace the "known to be replaced incorrectly", right side upper.
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Here is the original quote, which started this thread "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...."
I'm pretty sure I already know the answer to this. I recently purchased a late October 1966 built 67 S code coupe. The top upper door hinges seem to be the later stamped ones. Seems this is not correct, the car should have all four cast hinges. Am I right about this? If so, I've got some time to find the correct hinges. The resto on this starts next year. Thanks.
IMHO, it looks to me like you may have been "Duked" into believing they were the wrong hinges when indeed, likely were the right ones.
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I have a different question after I thought about this for a while, a possible different scenario that might explain things. Please, if anybody knows differently, offer your knowledge.
Were the doors assembled in a different sub-assembly area, already painted and stock-piled or racked and made available to the main assembly line as needed?
If so, it would be concievable that certain "X" quantities of any particular color would be built up in surplus to expedite the final assembly. In that situation, there would eventually be, for lack of better understanding, some of the early style in the back of the rack and one day finally make it to the main line.
This is just an idea. Maybe many of you already know this IS how, or IS NOT how they did things, but I don't know most assembly line practices. It seems here at this site, many of us are still learning these things.
Richard.
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doors were installed on body devoid of any guts.
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I have a different question after I thought about this for a while, a possible different scenario that might explain things. Please, if anybody knows differently, offer your knowledge.
Were the doors assembled in a different sub-assembly area, already painted and stock-piled or racked and made available to the main assembly line as needed?
Assembly plants had little storage area - so not sure "stockpiled" could be applied. But no the door like all the other sheet body panels arrived unpainted and remained that way till they were attached to the unibody
With the variations in paint batches prepainting these things would have lead to many unhappy owners when the doors didn't match the rest of the car like was sometimes reported for Shelbys with their fiberglass panels
If so, it would be concievable that certain "X" quantities of any particular color would be built up in surplus to expedite the final assembly. In that situation, there would eventually be, for lack of better understanding, some of the early style in the back of the rack and one day finally make it to the main line.
Only thing I'm aware of that arrived at the Ford plants prepainted during the classic years was remote controlled mirrors - 69-73) And for this reason cars with special order paint didn't get a painted remote mirror from the factory
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OK, I basically thought that the doors were all painted at the same time as the bodies too before this topic went "unhinged"
I noticed that all of the doors that seemed to have the stamped upper and cast lowers happened to be Coupes.
The original post stated it was late October. Mine, Nov. 2nd. The 3rd set were Dec. 13th (sched.) That is a stretch of time. I think somebody commented that a Dec 20th had both cast (getting weird, going back to cast) but didn't mention body type (so I wondered if that fit in somehow).
I am basically convinced that there are several unrestored sets that match up to what my car has. I simply cannot account for the other situations that don't quite fit.
So one last stab in the dark.
Was it a possibilty that the hinges were mounted to the doors ahead of time and then held in a rack before going to the final assembly? Similarly, this could explain a start/stop in production change-over.
Again, these odd-balls like mine seem to all be Coupes in about a 6 week time frame.
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As said above the doors went on the cars as shells there would be no reason to have treated any body style differently.
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3/2/1967 SJ Fastback -- has cast hinges in all 4 places.
More interesting is that seam sealer is applied to the top hinge on both sides, but not to the lowers.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4505/36747083964_977cc8dbc5.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XZdpPb) (https://flic.kr/p/XZdpPb)
Note the underside of the car was restored first, hence the red oxide on the aprons.
The pillars were sprayed with black DP to protect the car, while hinge area was left original.
There is no color under the hinges, just a small amount of primer (and some surface rust from water entrapment). And yes, the bolts are painted body color.
[edit -- add SJ]
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3/2/1967 SJ Fastback -- has cast hinges in all 4 places.
More interesting is that seam sealer is applied to the top hinge on both sides, but not to the lowers.
Not sure why Ford choose (other than speed and cost savings) to do only the top and forward edge of the upper. Just the way it was typically done as seen on your and the earlier posted pictures
There is no color under the hinges, just a small amount of primer (and some surface rust from water entrapment)
Being bare steel between the hinge to door and hinge to a pillar surfaces was typical and confirms that the body was primed after the doors were attached to the unibody. Thanks for the additional pictures
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I'm trying to sort out this changeover date for San Jose's too, though I may be already OK on my inventory. My San Jose 11/2/66 build date vin 1274** car looks to have come with the split design on the door hinges. I do not ever remember ever changing anything on the drivers door hinges and the upper was the stamped steel,while the lower was cast. The right side door right now are both cast, but I know I changed the right door and hinges back in '78 because the car was sideswiped when I bought it. I am happy I was given the 2nd set of doors about 18 years ago that both seem to have the correct split design hinges. I'll look again at those doors in storage and if I find a data tag with a vin, I'll post those numbers too. Going back to the door that has BOTH upper and lowers made from cast, I have no idea what plant the car was built at, but I got the right door, the hinges, the right fender (no headlamp housing) the right side spindle and right lower control arm all from the same car that hadn't yet been painted. These parts were found in a salvage yard in Fontana Ca., so more likely also a SJ build. I know there are date codes on the fender and assume there are date codes on all the other parts too. Since I'll be dismantling it to go on the rotisserie within a few weeks, I'll see what I find out as I go over these items in restoration. If anybody has interest in my findings, chime in and I'll try and PM you what I find out.
On EDIT: I now believe the donor car for the junkyard parts used on my project (back in 1978 Fontana), was indeed a San Jose car since the under-fender treatment (overspray, even primer color) was all the same as my SJ original driver fender.
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On EDIT: I now believe the donor car for the junkyard parts used on my project (back in 1978 Fontana), was indeed a San Jose car since the under-fender treatment (overspray, even primer color) was all the same as my SJ original driver fender.
As mentioned in the other post (reason I'm posting here also) I can't tell by looking at the back side of a fender where the car was built but sure would love too learn that trick. All plants had primered fenders, oversprayed on the exterior surface with light gray primer then body color. Each could have sound deadener applied to some of the surface that would match the pattern from the inner fender panel and firewall panel in the wheel well applications
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7R01C189340 parts car, door tag says estimated prod. date of 06C.
It has cast hinges top and bottom.
{add "estimated prod. date" to sentence}
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Staying with the topic of this thread, "Cast 67 door hinges", the 1960-68 MPC shows that the change from cast (note that the MPC mistakenly notes "die cast") to stamped steel supposedly occurred on October 3, 1966 (copy of appropriate page attached), which is similar to TLea's belief in an earlier Post. However, as John (67gta289) noted, his December 20, 1966 car has cast hinges. And going further, my January 31, 1967 Dearborn built 67 Convertible also has the cast hinges (pictures attached).
One must then surmise that both San Jose and Dearborn had larger than normal of the "storage areas" that Jeff mentioned ??
One final note of interest is that at sometime after the 1967 Model year, another change occurred to the hinges, as Part Number C7ZZ-6522800/01-B are shown in the 1968 OSI book as being "Replaced By" Part Number C7ZZ-6522800/01-C. This "-C" Part Number is of course what appears in the 1965-72 MPC, which was printed in 1975.
Bob
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...................One must then surmise that both San Jose and Dearborn had larger than normal of the "storage areas" that Jeff mentioned ??
Not I. San Jose ha room for storage as all plants did it would not make sense to store months worth of a particular pair (or two - both sides - in this focus) considering all the different lines and types of cars. IMHO Not sure what "normal" storage area would mean but the supplier may had dedicated more and at the same time any excess, within limits, would have been channeled to the service replacement part of the supply chain as long as the "old part" could still be used after the redesign safely and without issue