ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Body, Paint & Sealers => Topic started by: trucktricksdon on October 23, 2011, 07:16:17 PM
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I made a decision to paint the undercarriage and underhood areas of my 66 convertible using DP 90 because it does look a lot like what was on there originally from the factory and it is tough as nails. I sprayed it as a sealer, using the recommended mix of reducer. it looks great now but I find myself second guessing my decision after reading a lot of posts across different forums about DP 90 not being designed to be used as a topcoat because it will not seal out moisture and does not hold up to UV light (it may chalk up in time). Is there anyone that has used it in the past as a topcoat\sealer for the underhood undercarriage areas on their car? Also, if so, can anyone comment on how it has held up over time?
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Have seen straight red oxide DP finishes oxidize/chalk after a number of years. I've always mixed toners (exterior colors) to my base with no problems yet.
Moving this since it is not year specific and you might get a wider poll of comments in a broader area
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Thanks Jeff. Reading across all of the posts concerning this, there seems to be a lot of differing opinions concerning different brands of paint for the underhood, underbody areas of a 66 Dearborn car. Judging by the 45 year old finish that was on my 66 Convertible prior to sandblasting, the DPLF 90 finish looks closest to what was there originally, I am just concerned with durability. I see a lot of people referencing rattle can finishes, Eastwood underhood black, among others. For starters I don't think any rattle can application is durable enough due to the thinning factor of the spray can application. The one thing that concerns me about the Eastwood product is it is a laquer, which tends be prone to chipping and cracking. Eastwood also offers a ceramic underhood black, but I have not heard much said about it or seen any references to it on any of the forums. It is confusing sifting through all of the possibilities, but it still seems that the DPLF 90 with reducer, and a slight gray tint is the best solution. It certainly will hold up longer than any factory finish used in 1966, but when one goes to extreme lengths and puts years into a restoration, chosing a strong, durable coating that will look good for a number of years is a painstaking evaluation.
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the undercarriage won't see sunlight, so i don't see the need for you to worry about UV protection.
for the epoxy to offer corrosion protection and seal metal, you need to have applied the needed film build per the datasheet. if you're reducing, it will spray a little thinner so you'll probably need to spray more than one coat to make it effective.
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I have used the Eastwood Ceramic chassis black. I'm not impressed. It's difficult to spray, is very easy to mottle up and "streak," and when finished, is nowhere near as tough as their magazines would have you believe. It's certainly no tougher than any other chassis black I've used. It's beautiful once it's dry, but other than that, it's been no better than anything else I've used.
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I ended up putting 2 coats of DP 90 and it looks great, closer to the original finish tan most things I have seen. It is hard as nails and I think you are correct, the UV factor isn't really a huge concern underneath the car. I am really happy with the outcome. I have to agree with you on the Eastwood stuff too.
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I have used the Eastwood Ceramic chassis black. I'm not impressed. It's difficult to spray, is very easy to mottle up and "streak," and when finished, is nowhere near as tough as their magazines would have you believe. It's certainly no tougher than any other chassis black I've used. It's beautiful once it's dry, but other than that, it's been no better than anything else I've used.
This product has a tendency to wrinkle up if you have to go back in and touch up.Bob
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I used dp90 on my 68fb. I sprayed 3 coats back in 1999. I have been caught in the rain many times over the years going and coming to mca shows. The finish looks as good as it did when new. No color change or any other change. I used the dp90 product for it's reputation as being tough and durable, and it has been for me in the concours driven division. A proper looking undercarriage separates a great car from a good car. Take your time and use the right product for you and I am sure you will be happy with the results. Bill.
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When you say you reduced the DP PRIMER, I assume- hope you reduced it with 401 or 402 catylast, not reducer. DP is an epoxy which means you can delete the etch prime step. Mix the DP 2-1 with 401 or 402 cat. and you will be fine. PPG would never advise using the primer as an exterior coat- finish. However paint manipulation is as old an art as pinstriping. Best wishes, L. SMITH PPG Master cert. Tech
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Have you considered SPI Epoxy. Southern Polyurethanes has a black that seems to be very close to the underhood black and a red oxide that was formulated to match the ford red oxide. Plus the black has an added benefit of UV inhibitors in it because the owner of SPI found a lot of people using it as a top coat.
I have sprayed my engine compartment with the black and and am cleaning the bottom of my 68 to spray it with the red oxide. The black sprays very easy, covers well and if it is as everyone else says will be very durable.
Plus, it is about half the cost of DP90
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ruWioU7hUr8/TqR21g5YMJI/AAAAAAAABuI/3KG7RVZkF3A/s640/IMG_4996.JPG)
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When you say you reduced the DP PRIMER, I assume- hope you reduced it with 401 or 402 catylast, not reducer. DP is an epoxy which means you can delete the etch prime step. Mix the DP 2-1 with 401 or 402 cat. and you will be fine. PPG would never advise using the primer as an exterior coat- finish. However paint manipulation is as old an art as pinstriping. Best wishes, L. SMITH PPG Master cert. Tech
Actually you dont reduce the DP with 401/402 as it is a catalyst. What we are refering to is mixing the correct 2:1 ratio of DP to catalyst and then a .5 ratio of reducer to get the DP to flow better and thus seal, similar to an epoxy paint. It is an old trick that goes back to the original leaded DP primer days.
Regards,
Pete Morgan
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Yes, the mix ratio for PPG DP is 2:1:.05, product, catalyst, and reducer. The reducer just makes it lay out nicely and seal better. It's good to hear that it has held up since 1999. 2 coats and it looks real close to the original finish on my 66. I also have a 65 A code coupe that that I used Krylon 1613 satin black from a rattle can a few years ago. I prepped it well and it has held up fairly well, but is starting to show some chips and rough spots on the front of the radiator support behind the grille. It looked pretty good when it was fresh, although not as authentic to the original color and sheen as the DP does on the 66. Not familiar with the SPI Epoxies, but the photo looks great.
I guess all in all I have learned that the rattle can finishes are a quick easy way to make them look fresh, but I do not think it is going to hold up well on the 65.
The Poppy red 65 photo is a rattle can finish from a couple of years ago and the other is the 66 convertible with the PPG DP 90.
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Have you considered SPI Epoxy. Southern Polyurethanes has a black that seems to be very close to the underhood black and a red oxide that was formulated to match the ford red oxide. Plus the black has an added benefit of UV inhibitors in it because the owner of SPI found a lot of people using it as a top coat.
I have sprayed my engine compartment with the black and and am cleaning the bottom of my 68 to spray it with the red oxide. The black sprays very easy, covers well and if it is as everyone else says will be very durable.
Plus, it is about half the cost of DP90
I have used SPI clear and base a project and loved it. I am planning on trying their new red oxide. I didn't think about using the black on the engine compartment. Is the black the correct gloss? Let us know how the red oxide turns out.
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So the consensus is DP90?
I have used SPI black and it looks too glossy to me, but that is just an opinion, not sure how to quantify the amount of gloss.
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So the consensus is DP90?
I have used SPI black and it looks too glossy to me, but that is just an opinion, not sure how to quantify the amount of gloss.
spray some black single stage flattened to your liking over a sealer. then you don't need to worry about others definitions of gloss.