ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: 65fastbk on June 28, 2014, 03:25:00 AM
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I am thinking of purchasing calipers with the casting numbers of 71312 and 71315 on the body's not sure the inlet size...are these casting numbers for a 67 mustang?
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I can not tell you about those numbers but the numbers on our SJ 11-04-66 built 67 have 56877 on both sides.
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Likewise what Marty said, 11/02/66 had these. There is another number on the outer half, it also looks to be the same right side or left.
It looks like the castings must have been the same, then holes for lines and bleeders done afterwards.
For any qualifying information, I can say this is the first time I have ever removed (just this morning) since 1978, except for laying them asside on the hoses for repacking bearings and one time turning the rotors. I still had original hoses and hadn't ever disconnected them before this morning.
Hope we helped
Richard
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Early build SJ 67 car's used the small inlet like the 65/66 and the later production cars used the larger inlet. Just one of the many running changes in 67.
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Do these part numbers and stampings look correct for a Dec 66 SJ? If not what should I be looking for?
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An original example from a December 15th scheduled car - Looks like a possible match
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/3/6-160315212221.jpeg)
And just for comparison for others, one from a March scheduled example. Both San Jose
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/3/6-160315212244.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/3/6-160315212308.jpeg)
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John, I hear this voice echoing in my head....
"THE SEARCH FEATURE IS YOUR FRIEND, ...The search feature is your friend...the search feature is your friend..."
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=8827.msg51459#msg51459
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Hey that is often my line - no fair! Thanks for the replies, will check thread sizes also.
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Thread size on the source line is 7/16 x 24 NS (national special).
Jeff, not to get off trail, but the first picture you provided has what I normally consider a 65-66 brake pad retainer (one large piece), whereas the last picture has what I consider the 67 style, two independent smaller retainers. Do you concur, is that a slam dunk observation, or do I need to start a different thread? I guess my post started with threads and ended the same.
Thanks, John
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Jeff, not to get off trail,..................
We're still discussing Early San Jose calipers no problem following this path of discussion ;)
Believe you will find that the details you see in that picture is the way early 67 San Jose Disc brake cars were equipped and that the retainer changed with the change to the "stronger" reinforced caliper later in the year. Looks like the original safety wire is still in place a rare occurrence IMHO
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John, Jeff's first picture and all of the pictures in your original post seem to follow your questioning for EARLY caliper design. and all of those pictures look like what I have on my very early November SJ example. (pictures of my calipers are in the other thread I put a link to earlier)
I couldn't tell you when the 67 late design entered the picture (fairly sure the MPC would give the date) but it MAY stand to reason the change occured whenever all of the brake/fuel lines design changed
I have the MPC now on disc but it is at work, so cannot look at this moment It stands to reason, like Jeff said, that the hardware would change at the same time the calipers did.
Richard
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Early build SJ 67 car's used the small inlet like the 65/66 and the later production cars used the larger inlet. Just one of the many running changes in 67.
I'm getting too OLD to "keep up" with all of the "RUNNING" changes of the 67's ;D ;D
John, I brought this old topic up to help tie it in to the other newer thread
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=10708.new#new
Richard
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I couldn't tell you when the 67 late design entered the picture (fairly sure the MPC would give the date) but it MAY stand to reason the change occured whenever all of the brake/fuel lines design changed
Checked and the MPC shows a change from C7OZ-2B120 & 2B121-B to C7OZ-2B120 & 2B121-C on 10/17/66 but that doesn't seem to hold up well when compared to what they actually did at the plants - original unrestored examples. Another swing and miss for the MPC ;)
BTW the page is from a Aug 1967 version
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Here are some shots of the calipers that were on my 1967 390 GTA convertible. The car was built in SJ on Sept. 22, 1966.
The first five photos are of the driver side caliper, and the other seven are the passenger side...
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Here are some shots of the calipers that were on my 1967 390 GTA convertible. The car was built in SJ on Sept. 22, 1966.
The first five photos are of the driver side caliper, and the other seven are the passenger side...
Those are the later style with the different bolts and the larger diameter C7 brake hose.
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Thanks for the clarification Bob, and sorry for the confusion. I've had the car for over 30 years, and had no reason to believe that these were not original to the car...
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Those are the later style with the different bolts and the larger diameter C7 brake hose.
I'm doing some more research, and I've got what appear to be original K/H brakes from a Dearborn build car, schedule date Dec 3.
They are what I'll call 66 style, with the boot ring that is a separate steel ring that pushes on with an interference fit. They have the older style single full coverage pad retainer. The hose thread size is 3/8-24 NS. The hose itself is a C7OZ part, but the rest of the number is not readable. The hose is 3/8-24 NS.
So I have three questions to start with (may have more later...)
1. Bob mentioned a larger diameter C7 brake hose. Is that hose diameter only, or is there a commensurate increase in thread size also. If there is, to what?
2. Am I correct in assuming that the "early" 67 disc brake calipers were actually carry over from 66, and there was a running change to introduce a new version.
3. What is the list of differences between the versions? (1) pad retainers, (2) dust boot retainer, ???
Thanks, John
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I'm doing some more research, and I've got what appear to be original K/H brakes from a Dearborn build car, schedule date Dec 3.
They are what I'll call 66 style, with the boot ring that is a separate steel ring that pushes on with an interference fit. They have the older style single full coverage pad retainer. The hose thread size is 3/8-24 NS. The hose itself is a C7OZ part, but the rest of the number is not readable. The hose is 3/8-24 NS.
So I have three questions to start with (may have more later...)
1. Bob mentioned a larger diameter C7 brake hose. Is that hose diameter only, or is there a commensurate increase in thread size also. If there is, to what?
2. Am I correct in assuming that the "early" 67 disc brake calipers were actually carry over from 66, and there was a running change to introduce a new version.
3. What is the list of differences between the versions? (1) pad retainers, (2) dust boot retainer, ???
Thanks, John
1. 65/66 smaller size fitting diameter on hose . 2. I can only assume. 3. Same things you list with the addition of hardware.
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(Modified)
Thanks Bob.
Since I have a C7OA hose attached to these 65-66 style Kelsey Hayes calipers, I'm inclined to think that there were at least three different styles used in Mustangs:
1. 65-66 AND early 67 with 3/8-24 NS hose fitting size, external boot retaining rings, and single full size brake pad retainer.
2. 67 with 3/8-24 NS fitting size, internal boot retaining rings, and dual small brake pad retainers.
3. late 67 with 7/16-xx fitting size, internal boot retaining groove, and dual small brake pad retainers.
As Bob mentioned hardware differences are also in play, but I'm concentrating on the big picture at the moment.
Looking for comments and corrections, especially in the 65-66 and late 67 hose fitting sizes.
Bob also stated in the related post that "Early build SJ 67 car's used the small inlet like the 65/66"
So it could be that thr 65-66 and early 67 are 3/8-24 NS, and the late 67 are larger. If that is the case, then the early 67's may be a direct carry over from 65-66.
As for trying to determine the change over date(s), I can offer:
1. 7F01C129xxx Dec 3 scheduled build, has the 65-66 and early 67 caliper style.
2. My156855xxx Dec 20 actual build car had probably more than one caliper exchanges by the time I got it in 1979 :(
3. Jeff's posting above of "original example from a December 15th scheduled car" that is the early 67 style.
4. Richard's (67gtasanjose) 11/02/66 had the early 67 type http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=8827.msg51459#msg51459 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=8827.msg51459#msg51459)
5. Jeff's other examples from March, San Jose, of the late 67 type.
To confuse the issue, I have some 3/8-24 (early) threaded calipers with the late style grooved boot retaining rings, although they appear to be aftermarket, with no K/H markings. Will post pictures later.
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I did a bit more homework, in the attached file. Comments welcome! John
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Good info, I learned a bunch. Now if we could establish what is correct for various buld dates and plants...
Rome wasn't built in a day :D
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Were these on all 67 disk brakes- K/H brakes?
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Were these on all 67 disk brakes- K/H brakes?
No maybe only until they transitioned to the larger brake flex line fitting size .guesstimate no later then Oct/Nov 66. After that they were the metal retaining clips that held the pads in.
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FYI the larger 65-early 67 pad retainers were semigloss black.
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I have those on my Jan 24 67 SJ fastback.
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I have those on my Jan 24 67 SJ fastback.
Are you inferring that you believe that they are assemblyline?
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I would say so. I'll get numbers off of the calipers if that helps.
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I got some pics. I hope this helps. I have no reason to believe that they were changed but I'm no expert so please chime in Thanks!
Brian
(http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/Briansmitsky/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/6659A663-FC7B-4053-A393-D039E189F30E_zpsctdlw87y.jpg) (http://s370.photobucket.com/user/Briansmitsky/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/6659A663-FC7B-4053-A393-D039E189F30E_zpsctdlw87y.jpg.html)
(http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/Briansmitsky/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/6B635619-5408-4BDC-87C7-FC76147D0DFF_zpshglryz5l.jpg) (http://s370.photobucket.com/user/Briansmitsky/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/6B635619-5408-4BDC-87C7-FC76147D0DFF_zpshglryz5l.jpg.html)
(http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/Briansmitsky/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/DD8CD536-CE38-42A2-80BC-68D9BE95442E_zpsautpbqde.jpg) (http://s370.photobucket.com/user/Briansmitsky/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/DD8CD536-CE38-42A2-80BC-68D9BE95442E_zpsautpbqde.jpg.html)
(http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/Briansmitsky/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/DB5EC513-9054-4977-BD7A-1DD664C33231_zpswhkutaaq.jpg) (http://s370.photobucket.com/user/Briansmitsky/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/DB5EC513-9054-4977-BD7A-1DD664C33231_zpswhkutaaq.jpg.html)
(http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/Briansmitsky/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/A4B9F340-56B2-408F-952F-20A7AF75DA2D_zps4zxfjotc.jpg) (http://s370.photobucket.com/user/Briansmitsky/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/A4B9F340-56B2-408F-952F-20A7AF75DA2D_zps4zxfjotc.jpg.html)
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I got some pics. I hope this helps. I have no reason to believe that they were changed but I'm no expert so please chime in Thanks!
Brian
First off the calipers have been off and restored. FYI someone didn't know any better and left the early style pad retainer unpainted which calls into question what other things that they did not know any better about. . The fact that the bolt holding the caliper on is the later safety wire type (the one with no safety wire in the holes ;) ) proofs it has been tampered with. Like the 65 and 66 the early 67 calipers didn't use a safety wire bolt. A later car did have the larger brake flex lines ,later style pad clips and safety wired in bolts. Most likely those calipers have been changed. There is no extra ordinary proof to justify the extra ordinary claim that the early style calipers were used on that late of car. There is however all kinds of evidence to suggest that they have been messed with and not in any kind of original type matrix to support a un tampered with conclusion.
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When I restored this 11-04-66 SJ car many years ago I did not detail it correctly but it is original to the car.
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First off the calipers have been off and restored. FYI someone didn't know any better and left the early style pad retainer unpainted which calls into question what other things that they did not know any better about. . The fact that the bolt holding the caliper on is the later safety wire type (the one with no safety wire in the holes ;) ) proofs it has been tampered with. Like the 65 and 66 the early 67 calipers didn't use a safety wire bolt. A later car did have the larger brake flex lines ,later style pad clips and safety wired in bolts. Most likely those calipers have been changed. There is no extra ordinary proof to justify the extra ordinary claim that the early style calipers were used on that late of car. There is however all kinds of evidence to suggest that they have been messed with and not in any kind of original type matrix to support a un tampered with conclusion.
Thanks for the clarification Bob. You are correct they have been restored. The pad retainer had black paint on it before I sandblasted them I kinda like the silver cad better though 8)
This is how the car was when I purchased it. It had some work done at on one time, so they may have been changed. The car also had the safety wire bolts holding the caliper on too. Sorry to post a bad example up here. ;)
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Thanks for the clarification Bob. You are correct they have been restored. The pad retainer had black paint on it before I sandblasted them I kinda like the silver cad better though 8)
This is how the car was when I purchased it. It had some work done at on one time, so they may have been changed. The car also had the safety wire bolts holding the caliper on too. Sorry to post a bad example up here. ;)
Keep in mind that the later 67 calipers were the last evolution of that style 4 piston KH caliper on a Mustang. It is more superior when compared to the earlier versions in its details . The smaller pad retainer clips have the advantage of allowing more air movement for cooling. The larger flex line orifice allows for more flow to pistons. The safety wire bolts add security to the assembly. I am not sure but I think there may have been a evolution to the piston seal inside too.
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Bob,
I think that the piston o-ring (actually square cut ring) is the same. But the dust boot design changed, from an external to internal groove for 67. This eliminated two metal rings per caliper (see pic). A change that eliminates parts is good for quality and cost, the change to performance (dust intrusion rejection) may or may not have been an impetus or by product of the actual change. John
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I did a bit more homework, in the attached file. Comments welcome! John
I have read the post and need some input on my understanding. I went to bleed my brakes and the bleeders are frozen solid. As I am waiting for the penetrant to work, I am assessing some options. When parts need to be replaced, I would prefer to go concours correct although I don't know if this will ever be a concours car. So, could these calipers "possibly" be correct?
If so, I will keep trying to loosen the bleeder and rebuild. If not, I may try to locate something more likely to be correct, which I believe to be the K/H referenced within this thread.
Any help is certainly appreciated.
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One thing being overlooked here is the date code stamped into the assemblyline brake hoses, which might help pinpoint when the larger hose went into production. I know I've seen dates on these as early as Sept (9) or Oct (10) 66. My feeling is that SOME cars got the later style brakes late in 1966. The hose in this picture looks to be dated 12 09 6. (The Sept-Oct time frame also coincides with the MPC change on 10/17/66)
Kurt.
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I haven't taken them apart yet, as I just picked up the car and the brakes are my first "project". Based on John's assesment in the above attachment,
I assume they are 3/8...they are 7/16". I couldn't read anything on the hose, other than 97, so I am confident the hoses aren't original. This car was "redone" around that time by the PO, and I am fairly certain originality was not a concerned...I am still trying to figure out what was rebuilt versus replaced with repop.
Am I understanding that 71312 was used on the assembly line at some point? It sounded like the ones John was comparing above were all believed to be original
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"Am I understanding that 71312 was used on the assembly line at some point? It sounded like the ones John was comparing above were all believed to be original"
The calipers with casting 71312 and 71315 on the 2 halves are assembly line. They are the latest version of the K/H 4 piston design. It is just not certain at what point these began to be used.
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One thing being overlooked here is the date code stamped into the assemblyline brake hoses, which might help pinpoint when the larger hose went into production. I know I've seen dates on these as early as Sept (9) or Oct (10) 66. My feeling is that SOME cars got the later style brakes late in 1966. ..............
......................... It is just not certain at what point these began to be used.
Kurt first thanks for the pictures and some dates from the brake lines themselves
Earlier in the thread we discussed the possible change over point or range at least for San Jose and I offered the example with the projected Dec 15th date which I feel pretty comfortable based on other cars around the same time using the early style up to that point. Now looking at what I have I worked from the late version towards that December date yesterday and found the following
The earliest production dates (real dates this time) I found for San Jose was December 21st. I must report that I would not normally offer any of these examples individually since each has been "restored" or played with in the past, but the fact that I could, after all these years, find a group with all the same style calipers. The random chance that some prior owner made each made the same choice for replacements, if they all were even replaced, seems to be unlikely so I'm taking the calipers at face value and giving the finding some value in our discussion.
Inviting opinions on this observation and conclusion at this point.
Though this does not help the date at the other two plants it may suggest that it was at a similar time period and may guide us to at least start in December lookign at those examples
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Switching the focus to the spring clip/retainer for the brake pads, which style is correct for the early K/H style calipers, the one piece type from the first picture, or the two piece style from picture 2?
Do original early K/H style have any telltale features (part number, date code stamps or other)?
Looks like I have over 20 of the later style, none of the one piece style...
What would be the finish for the clips and the bolts?
Thanks, John
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Switching the focus to the spring clip/retainer for the brake pads, which style is correct for the early K/H style calipers, the one piece type from the first picture, or the two piece style from picture 2?
One piece like the earlier 65-66
Do original early K/H style have any telltale features (part number, date code stamps or other)?
Not Ford engineering numbers since they were not provide nor made by Ford
Would expect them to be date stamps since that appears to be the practice on others. Shape and fitting size seems to be the quickest and easiest telltale signs
What would be the finish for the clips and the bolts?
The one piece/full retainers I've seen have always showed signs of black paint - on the glossier side of semi-gloss. Possibly dipped rather than sprayed
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As Bob pointed out, in response to Kevin's pictures posted above (which have the same casting numbers as mine), he has the C7 larger hose. Alternatively, is it possible that Kevin's supply line is a repop and the line stamps inaccurately describe the part? I am thoroughly confused and not sure where to start my hunt since I am not exactly sure what I should be looking for. Possibly I am missing something in this thread?
Kevin, would you be willing/able to verify the inlet size on your caliper?
Any additional input, opinions and information would be great!
I'll have to dig them out of storage, but I'll try to get the measurements to you in the next few days.
However, I'm still a little confused as well...
My car was built in San Jose on Sept. 22, 1966 - so I'd say that makes it an "early production" 1967 Mustang. I've owned the car since January 1983, and have service records going back to May 1978 - and there's nothing in the service history to indicate that the calipers were ever replaced prior to me buying the car, so I assumed that the 71312/71315 calipers on my car were the original items that were installed at the factory (there was even a big green paint daub on the driver's side caliper).
However, in response to the photos I posted of my calipers back on March 22, 2015, Bob Gaines indicated that my car had the "later style" calipers, which I interpreted to mean that 1) these weren't the same type of calipers that were being discussed, and 2) my early production car didn't come with them originally (but I still think it did)...
Yes, it's possible that the calipers were replaced at some point prior to May 1978, but could it also be possible that the San Jose plant was using the "later style" calipers as early as mid-Sept. 1966?
Is there anything I should be looking for on the calipers, hoses, etc. that can verify these as original or not?
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The earlier 65-66 calipers had date stamps, see if yours have any.
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Look for a date stamp on the large half of the caliper on the face "opposite" of the clip. Ones I've seen have a part number and a Julian style of date and a dash 6. Like part ######## 327-6. Think the 6 is year (327th day of 1966). These appear hand stamped not cast.
These stamps are very hard to read and best if part thoroughly cleaned/bead blasted - rubbing with some sort of dye may help.
Don't have any off car or I'd post a picture with location of dates I've found.
Of course dates on original hoses may also give you a clue but these more likely to have been changed.
Kurt.
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Okay, here's what I found over the weekend...
- The supply lines to my calipers were 7/16 (photo 1)
- The part number on both brake lines is C70A-2078-D (photo 2)
- The same date code is on both brake lines: 12 09 6 (also photo 2 - is this 12 Sep 1966 or Dec 9, 1966?)
- The DS retainer clip bolt heads show a "B & ?" logo set inside a series of concentric circles (photo 3)
- The PS retainer clip bolt heads show three raised dots (photo 4)
- The DS Caliper codes seem to say: 331 H (inverted) and H 89 (photo 5)
- The PS Caliper codes seem to say: 41-KH9 (inverted) and 538-1 (photo 6)
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Kurt - Thanks for the insight on the date stampings. If this is accurate, the mid Dec stamping below would likely be consistent with my build date.
John (67gta289) has done a great job of cleaning up my caliper and has taken a couple of pictures. The clarity of the casting number is less than ideal as seen in the pictures. Although John has noted it as 77315, could it possibly be 71315? This would be more consistent with some of the prior posts. The inlets are 7/16-24.
I am not sure if this helps provide any new information and I cannot verify that these are the calipers that originally came on the car. I AM certain that the flex brake lines have been replaced.
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Kurt first thanks for the pictures and some dates from the brake lines themselves
Earlier in the thread we discussed the possible change over point or range at least for San Jose and I offered the example with the projected Dec 15th date which I feel pretty comfortable based on other cars around the same time using the early style up to that point. Now looking at what I have I worked from the late version towards that December date yesterday and found the following
The earliest production dates (real dates this time) I found for San Jose was December 21st. I must report that I would not normally offer any of these examples individually since each has been "restored" or played with in the past, but the fact that I could, after all these years, find a group with all the same style calipers. The random chance that some prior owner made each made the same choice for replacements, if they all were even replaced, seems to be unlikely so I'm taking the calipers at face value and giving the finding some value in our discussion.
Inviting opinions on this observation and conclusion at this point.
Though this does not help the date at the other two plants it may suggest that it was at a similar time period and may guide us to at least start in December lookign at those examples
Digging up this aged thread because I think it might be germane...
I too have calipers like those posted in reply #16. Mine is a 10/20/66 SJ build date. Stampings are 270-6 and 76(maybe 8)544LH, 7/16" inlet.
Thoughts?
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MORE STATISTICS for those who are keeping track.
11/2/66 built in San Jose, Early style calipers, photographs, date codes and as an added bonus, engineering number & date codes from original brake hoses...See attached pictures (posting within a few minutes of initial reply)
Casting numbers found on BOTH sides: Look to be 56877 on inner & H66082 on outer
Type 1 (67 gta289's pdf file bottom of page 1 of thread)
HAS 7/16" fine thread inlet lines
LH date code 189-6- (July 8, 1966).
RH date code 217-6- (August 4, 1966)
Brake hose engineering numbers (same RH & LH) C7OA-2078-D date codes both are 20-10-6 (October 20, 1966)
Also. FWIW...All of the numbers found on my hoses wrapped around the extension tube of the hose, not linear as others have pictured
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What color finish or would best duplicates the finish of the 4 spring clips that snap into the black brake pad plate (earlier design similar to the 65-66 style)
AND I also could use a confirmation that the "silver plating" (paint) is not on the machined surfaces of the outer caliper housing (w/Styled Steel Wheels)
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Gun blue would work best for those.
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Yay me commenting on a three year old thread. ;D
I'm curious if anyone familiar with 67 Cougars has noticed similar early to late K/H caliper change ups on their Cougars or if Ford/Mercury just made the change to the late 67 style with the Cougars?
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Yay me commenting on a three year old thread. ;D
I'm curious if anyone familiar with 67 Cougars has noticed similar early to late K/H caliper change ups on their Cougars or if Ford/Mercury just made the change to the late 67 style with the Cougars?
Would expect that the practice was the same as on Mustangs. Day or week of change over would be the same period as Dearborn built 67 Mustangs
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Here is a pic from the K/H "Disc Brake Service Manual For American Automobiles" that shows an exploded view of the 65/66 and 67-69 versions. Since these calipers were used on other cars it shows extended coverage beyond Mustangs.
(manual dated July 1970)
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Here is a pic from the K/H "Disc Brake Service Manual For American Automobiles" that shows an exploded view of the 65/66 and 67-69 versions. Since these calipers were used on other cars it shows extended coverage beyond Mustangs.
(manual dated July 1970)
Manual doesn't take into account the early 67 usage of the 65/66 style. No big surprise.
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Right, Bob.
This was a K/H service manual for K/H, Delco-Moraine, Bendix, Budd on many car manufacturer lines. Sort of a Motors Manual for disc brakes put out by K/H.
At the time Mopar was also a user of the 4 piston. And others.
I believe the model year designations were for the K/H model year changeover and did not account for the stock the manufacturers like Ford would have on hand.
There is not much information on K/H calipers and their casting numbers. I was looking to see what data I had and what calipers I had. I just pulled out my 65 disc brake calipers and found out they were actually 67s with 67 hoses and piston seal designs. They also had the reinforced bridge.
Makes me wonder what casting numbers my Shelby should have.
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There are so many K/H caliper threads, so I choose this one.
Anyone recognize this outside caliper? It's the only I have with the K/H logo and all on the front.
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Another example of a brake hose date. C7OA-2078-D part number, dated 05 12 6. Day/Month/Year seems most likely?
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Another example of a brake hose date. C7OA-2078-D part number, dated 05 12 6. Day/Month/Year seems most likely?
Yes pattern does match the one identified on pg 13 of the Date Code article I did in the Library used on later brake brake lines in an illustration shown there
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Didn't think there would be so many variations of the five digit number on castings! Thanks for all replies and photos