Topic: Rocker Panel Molding installation

[67gtasanjose]

But finally it's the correct measurement/drawing to install rocker moldings on a 67 car?
Ralf

I will add that the installation is the same on Convertible Fastback & Coupe. I would also say if using Jeroen's measurements and the information on the Ford instructions Marty supplied, you would get a really good idea how these are installed. Not really rocket science (whether or not you are off slightly forward/back on the clip location) more important to not be off up/down though you do want the finished installation to be slightly lower and parallel to the top edge of the rocker panel itself.

Here is an installation video that can probably demonstrate a bit how you can go wrong as much as how to correct any mistakes. I hope by watching the video you get an idea how to be careful but the measurements given in the video might be a different method than the Ford instructions Marty offered (different in how they were measured) I do think the video shows somewhat clearer (on the drivers side anyways) what your finished installation should look like. (note video at 5:18 minutes shows how it should look installed on left side ~it looks as though the passenger's door is out of alignment a few seconds later in the video)
http://www.cjponyparts.com/67-8-lh-ford-rocker-molding-1967-1968/p/RPM2LF/

FWIW, the measurements from my LEFT SIDE rocker panel clips, beginning at the rear wheel well opening and going forward, all rocker measurements are from the rear wheel opening measured to the center of the TOP HOLE (except fender, fender was measured from rear edge of fender, right side measurements are ALL similar to left side except the one on the fender. Right fender had been replaced so it is possible to be incorrect. LEFT Fender is verified as original to this car. Right side measurements are within +/- 1/8 inch of the left side.)

NOTE: I did not include the very front hole for the stud location.

2-1/2 inches (63.5mm)
15-5/16 inches (388.9mm)
27-7/8 inches (708.025mm)
40-5/8 inches (1,031.875mm)
53-5/16 inches (1,354.4137mm)
FENDER CLIP: 14 inches (355.6mm)

Again, this is from my 67 COUPE, built 11/2/1966 in San Jose. These measurements are VERY CONSISTENT to Jereon's measurements.
My example was factory equipped with Rocker Moldings, verified by Marti Report. Jereon's is a Fastback so without stating any Marti Report confirmation, It is understood that ALL fastbacks came with a rocker molding in 1967. Coupe's & Convertible application, the Rocker Molding is optional equipment from the factory. (or Dealership/owner installed)

[ruppstang]

Well done Richard.

[Ralf]

Yes, well done. Thx,
To make it perfect a scetch including measures to be posted would be fantastic.
+1
Ralf

[67gtasanjose]

Yes, well done. Thx,
To make it perfect a scetch including measures to be posted would be fantastic.
+1
Ralf

***PASS

[196667Bob]

I will add that the installation is the same on Convertible Fastback & Coupe.

Richard : I must take exception to this statement. At first, when I looked at both your and Jeroen’s measurements, I thought that mine must be different (it was ordered with the Rocker Panel Moldings – confirmed in Marti Report) because it’s a Convertible; or possibly because it was built in Dearborn; or even because it was an “Early” build. The difference being that mine has 6 of the “L” nylon clips (as shown in the attached illustrations), plus the front Fender stud (shown as “M” in the illustrations). At first I thought that both of you only included the dimensions to the “L” clips on the Rocker Panel itself; but then saw that, on Fastbacks (according to the illustration), there are no “L” clips on the front fender. Thus, either both of you forgot  the dimension to the 6th “L” clip, or San Jose “cheated” and only used 5 ? For someone who is either adding the Rocker Panel Moldings to a car that did not have them originally, or someone who has a car that has had the sheet metal replaced with pieces without the holes for the clips, all of the dimensions are needed for a complete installation. In addition, I’m not sure exactly where the 14” dimension is taken from (I’ve noted it as 14”? on the attached “doctored up” illustration).  If I have shown it in the incorrect place, please advise. Also, if both you and Jeroen (as a double check) would provide the “missing” dimension, I can complete my “doctored up” drawing and provide, hopefully, what Ralf was asking for.  When I have access to my Convertible in several weeks, I’ll make the necessary measurements on it, and provide that as a follow up to this Post.

I would also say if using Jeroen's measurements and the information on the Ford instructions Marty supplied, you would get a really good idea how these are installed.

As far as following the dimensions that you and Jeroen have provided, along with those on the sheet that ruppstang provided, I would not use the dimensions on the sheet provided by ruppstang. After looking closely at the instructions that Marty provided, one can see that they are, as previously noted by you, for installation on a 1969, which as shown on the sheet, used different clips than those for ’67-68 from the Factory, and, as it appears (at least according to the illustration on the Instruction Sheet), different spacing also. The instructions are noted for either replacing moldings on cars that had them from the Factory (and had been scraped, dented, etc.), and for cars that didn’t come with the Rocker Panel Moldings initially. I am not very familiar with ‘69’s, but it must have had a very narrow RPM compared to ’67-68, based on the size of the clips (considerably shorter). Since for 1969, only the Mach 1’s and Grandes came “Standard” with the Rocker Panel Moldings, and for other Models, one had to either order the car with the Exterior Décor Option (which included the RPM’s), or order them as a separate Option, I can see the reason for the 1969 RPM Kit being available. What I don’t understand is why, in the case of replacing damaged moldings on a ’69, or adding to a car that didn’t originally have RPM’s, the clips (and presumably the moldings themselves), were 1967’s. Maybe someone could shed some light on this ??
In any case, the spacing of the clips on 1969 Models is different than 1967-68.

I have attached pictures of a “doctored up” copy of the Instruction Sheet for the 1969 RPM Kit (as supplied earlier by ruppstang), Exterior Molding Sheets showing number and type of clips used on all 3 ’67 Body styles (these are from the 1960-68 MPC with sheets dated February 1967 and December 1968), and a side view of my ’67 Convertible with the Rocker Panel Moldings removed, showing the location of the Factory installed 6 nylon clips and the front fender stud (you’ll need to zoom in to see them well).

In “SUMMARY” :

1)   All 1967 Rocker Panel Molding Clip locations are not “created equal”. While it may turn out that the spacing between clips, and between the last clip and the front fender stud is the same on all 3 Models (Coupe, Convertible and Fastback), their physical location in relation to the Front Fender is not the same (this is particularly applicable since Ralf’s is a Convertible).
2)   It appears that the dimension between the 5th and 6th Clip is missing, and needs to be provided.
3)   The location of the 14” dimension needs to be confirmed/provided.
4)   Do not use the Clip Spacing dimensions shown on the Instruction Sheet provided by ruppstang on ‘67’s or 68’s. That sheet is for a Kit specifically to be used on 1969’s.
5)   Any information on why the ’67 Clips were used in the 1969 RPM Kit (and presumably the 1967-68 RPM’s themselves) would be of interest.
6)   Measurements from known Factory installations of the RPM’s on all 3 Models should be confirmed and compared (including physical locations).
7)   Dimensions and location on ’68 Models should be taken and compared to verify that they are the same as on ‘67’s.
   Information provided for Models other than my ’67 Dearborn Convertible is based on dimensions from Richard's and Jeroens’ measurements, as well as locations shown in the Body Illustrations Section of the 1960-68 MPC.

I trust this will get us on the way to getting this resolved.

Bob

[Coralsnake]

As long as we are here...can anyone confirm the slotted hole on the clip is on the bottom?

[196667Bob]

As long as we are here...can anyone confirm the slotted hole on the clip is on the bottom?

First, I'm assuming (?) that you are talking about the nylon clip with the two holes, of which there are six on each side of the car. If you zoom in on the Instruction Sheet provided by ruppstang (which is for using 67-68 clips on a '69), and the three Exterior Molding diagrams that I provided, you will see that the oblong hole (slot) appears on the bottom. Of course this would be of no benefit if you pop riveted the top holes first. Therefore, it's my take, that the idea was to install the tapping screws first, in the middle of the slot, allowing for minor adjustments in the clips in order to line them all up before pop riveting the top hole.
I can't absolutely confirm this until I'm with my car in 3 or 4 weeks, but it appears to be on the bottom. Possibly someone can give you additional confirmation before then.

Bob

[J_Speegle]

As long as we are here...can anyone confirm the slotted hole on the clip is on the bottom?

Never taken pictures of that detail so will have to settle (for my input) for particle shots with them installed. You can maybe make out the slot in a few of the examples

Included are 67 & 68 examples as noted (looks like # 1 & #3 have the slot showing behind the rivet)

7R01C152xx





7R01C1527xx





7R01T1873xx





8R01J1522xx




8R01C1650xx




Do recall them (the slot) being the lower hole but was hoping for photo documentation to go with the recall

[67gtasanjose]

As long as we are here...can anyone confirm the slotted hole on the clip is on the bottom?

Yes, the slotted hole is on the bottom, another reason NOT to measure the bottom hole (per say)

[67gtasanjose]

Richard : I must take exception to this statement. At first, when I looked at both your and Jeroen’s measurements, I thought that mine must be different (it was ordered with the Rocker Panel Moldings – confirmed in Marti Report) because it’s a Convertible; or possibly because it was built in Dearborn; or even because it was an “Early” build. The difference being that mine has 6 of the “L” nylon clips (as shown in the attached illustrations), plus the front Fender stud (shown as “M” in the illustrations). At first I thought that both of you only included the dimensions to the “L” clips on the Rocker Panel itself; but then saw that, on Fastbacks (according to the illustration), there are no “L” clips on the front fender. Thus, either both of you forgot  the dimension to the 6th “L” clip, or San Jose “cheated” and only used 5 ? For someone who is either adding the Rocker Panel Moldings to a car that did not have them originally, or someone who has a car that has had the sheet metal replaced with pieces without the holes for the clips, all of the dimensions are needed for a complete installation. In addition, I’m not sure exactly where the 14” dimension is taken from (I’ve noted it as 14”? on the attached “doctored up” illustration).  If I have shown it in the incorrect place, please advise. Also, if both you and Jeroen (as a double check) would provide the “missing” dimension, I can complete my “doctored up” drawing and provide, hopefully, what Ralf was asking for.  When I have access to my Convertible in several weeks, I’ll make the necessary measurements on it, and provide that as a follow up to this Post.

As far as following the dimensions that you and Jeroen have provided, along with those on the sheet that ruppstang provided, I would not use the dimensions on the sheet provided by ruppstang. After looking closely at the instructions that Marty provided, one can see that they are, as previously noted by you, for installation on a 1969, which as shown on the sheet, used different clips than those for ’67-68 from the Factory, and, as it appears (at least according to the illustration on the Instruction Sheet), different spacing also. The instructions are noted for either replacing moldings on cars that had them from the Factory (and had been scraped, dented, etc.), and for cars that didn’t come with the Rocker Panel Moldings initially. I am not very familiar with ‘69’s, but it must have had a very narrow RPM compared to ’67-68, based on the size of the clips (considerably shorter). Since for 1969, only the Mach 1’s and Grandes came “Standard” with the Rocker Panel Moldings, and for other Models, one had to either order the car with the Exterior Décor Option (which included the RPM’s), or order them as a separate Option, I can see the reason for the 1969 RPM Kit being available. What I don’t understand is why, in the case of replacing damaged moldings on a ’69, or adding to a car that didn’t originally have RPM’s, the clips (and presumably the moldings themselves), were 1967’s. Maybe someone could shed some light on this ??
In any case, the spacing of the clips on 1969 Models is different than 1967-68.

I have attached pictures of a “doctored up” copy of the Instruction Sheet for the 1969 RPM Kit (as supplied earlier by ruppstang), Exterior Molding Sheets showing number and type of clips used on all 3 ’67 Body styles (these are from the 1960-68 MPC with sheets dated February 1967 and December 1968), and a side view of my ’67 Convertible with the Rocker Panel Moldings removed, showing the location of the Factory installed 6 nylon clips and the front fender stud (you’ll need to zoom in to see them well).

In “SUMMARY” :

1)   All 1967 Rocker Panel Molding Clip locations are not “created equal”. While it may turn out that the spacing between clips, and between the last clip and the front fender stud is the same on all 3 Models (Coupe, Convertible and Fastback), their physical location in relation to the Front Fender is not the same (this is particularly applicable since Ralf’s is a Convertible).
2)   It appears that the dimension between the 5th and 6th Clip is missing, and needs to be provided.
3)   The location of the 14” dimension needs to be confirmed/provided.
4)   Do not use the Clip Spacing dimensions shown on the Instruction Sheet provided by ruppstang on ‘67’s or 68’s. That sheet is for a Kit specifically to be used on 1969’s.
5)   Any information on why the ’67 Clips were used in the 1969 RPM Kit (and presumably the 1967-68 RPM’s themselves) would be of interest.
6)   Measurements from known Factory installations of the RPM’s on all 3 Models should be confirmed and compared (including physical locations).
7)   Dimensions and location on ’68 Models should be taken and compared to verify that they are the same as on ‘67’s.
   Information provided for Models other than my ’67 Dearborn Convertible is based on dimensions from Richard's and Jeroens’ measurements, as well as locations shown in the Body Illustrations Section of the 1960-68 MPC.

I trust this will get us on the way to getting this resolved.

Bob

Not sure how I "cheated" a measurement but tomorrow, I'll simply shoot a few pictures and include one of my left side fender with a tape measure lined up to the holes.  The right side was similar but as mentioned before, the right fender is known to be a replacement. II am 100% sure the left side was initially drilled at the factory & there was only one of the "L" clips (item "L" of the illustrations you, Bob provided) on the fender, it was mounted forward of the rear edge of the fender, 14" from the edge of the fender at the gap to the rocker panel. There could be some differences on Dearborn or Convertibles, or as with many other things, running changes. II can only report on my example as it is, knowing the car came from the San Jose factory, assembled on 11/2/66. My car is in pieces at this time so I am not giving measurements "between the clips". I also did not offer a measurement to the stud hole at the very front.

[196667Bob]

Not sure how I "cheated" a measurement but tomorrow, I'll simply shoot a few pictures and include one of my left side fender with a tape measure lined up to the holes.  The right side was similar but as mentioned before, the right fender is known to be a replacement. II am 100% sure the left side was initially drilled at the factory & there was only one of the "L" clips (item "L" of the illustrations you, Bob provided) on the fender, it was mounted forward of the rear edge of the fender, 14" from the edge of the fender at the gap to the rocker panel. There could be some differences on Dearborn or Convertibles, or as with many other things, running changes. II can only report on my example as it is, knowing the car came from the San Jose factory, assembled on 11/2/66. My car is in pieces at this time so I am not giving measurements "between the clips". I also did not offer a measurement to the stud hole at the very front.

Richard : I didn't mean it to sound like you had "cheated". Sorry if it came across that way. I meant that for the SJ Plant if they had only used 5 nylon clips, instead of the 6 that are supposed to be present. Your clarification of the 14" dimension's location now makes it clear that you do in fact have 6 of the nylon clips. In your initial measurements, I had taken the 14" as a distance from a previous clip, not from the rear of the fender. As you noted correctly, there is only one nylon clip on the fender (on Coupes and Convertibles - none on Fastbacks) and it was my misunderstanding as to where your dimensions were taken from. Another good reason to have a sketch. I'll revise my sketch and Post a new one for you to confirm that it agrees with the dimensions you took. Of course, unfortunately, measurements on your Coupe and my Convertible will probably not apply to Ralf's original question in regard to his Fastback.

As long as we are here...can anyone confirm the slotted hole on the clip is on the bottom?

Just to add a little more inf on your question on the slotted hole on the clips. The pictures supplied by Fastback2013, the last one of the clips, are oriented correctly, with the slot at the bottom.
Also, note that the "screws" I referred to apply to the molding clips related to the Instruction Sheet supplied by ruppstang. From the Factory, as shown in the pictures supplied by Jeff, pop rivets were used in both holes of each clip. I should have clarified that in my previous reply.

Bob

[Ralf]

Thx for all the infos.
I bought a repro set of Rocker Moldings. Set incl. 7 clips!  +1 clip (Fender) +14 pop rivots, +1 screw +1 thin plate, +2 nuts, +2 washers (see picture, for 1 side)
If smb could advise the final measures shown in a sketch related to a 67 CV, I would be happy.
As mentioned by Richard :"I'll simply shoot a few pictures and include one of my left side fender with a tape measure lined up to the holes"
May be someone has the "original" screw/stud incl. plate (Fender) which I could buy instead of using the repro screw with this really thin metal-plate (even the complete OEM/NOS set?) It seems to be the postion B , but can not find the part in the 67 sketch.

My car is a SJ build 11/30/66 similar to Richards.
Ralf

[67gtasanjose]

Richard : I didn't mean it to sound like you had "cheated". Sorry if it came across that way. I meant that for the SJ Plant if they had only used 5 nylon clips, instead of the 6 that are supposed to be present. Your clarification of the 14" dimension's location now makes it clear that you do in fact have 6 of the nylon clips. In your initial measurements, I had taken the 14" as a distance from a previous clip, not from the rear of the fender. As you noted correctly, there is only one nylon clip on the fender (on Coupes and Convertibles - none on Fastbacks) and it was my misunderstanding as to where your dimensions were taken from. Another good reason to have a sketch. I'll revise my sketch and Post a new one for you to confirm that it agrees with the dimensions you took. Of course, unfortunately, measurements on your Coupe and my Convertible will probably not apply to Ralf's original question in regard to his Fastback.

Just to add a little more inf on your question on the slotted hole on the clips. The pictures supplied by Fastback2013, the last one of the clips, are oriented correctly, with the slot at the bottom.
Also, note that the "screws" I referred to apply to the molding clips related to the Instruction Sheet supplied by ruppstang. From the Factory, as shown in the pictures supplied by Jeff, pop rivets were used in both holes of each clip. I should have clarified that in my previous reply.

Bob

No problem, no offense taken either.  I looked back at my original text about the 14 inch measurement on the fender. I see that I had mentioned it was from the rear edge, you may have missed it in the read-through.  I went back and highlighted that part of the sentence in red to help others see it.

Original poster has a fastback? It was my understanding he had a convertible. I may have misunderstood that detail. Nobody has chimed in with any fastback measurements ON THE FENDER, to confirm the fender details. I see the assembly manual didn't include a "L" clip in the illustration. I know the fastbacks ALL RECIEVED rocker moldings in 1967 model year, but I fail to understand why the fastback body wouldn't need the same clip at that location while the convertible and coupe do. 

One more detail I see in the last photograph of the lime gold convertible that Bob posted with the sketches, I see two "L" clips on the right fender. I also see the hole for the stud (stud "M" of the illustrations) to go into. 

[ruppstang]

I had a 68 body assembly manual handy it shows the oval in the clip on the bottom. It also shows a clip location drawing of a 65 model and says it is typical for models 63 and 76. It also said see drawing C7ZB-16015-6 for size and locating dimensions of holes to receive rivets. I have not been able to find that drawing yet.
Marty

[67gtasanjose]

Thx for all the infos.
I bought a repro set of Rocker Moldings. Set incl. 7 clips!  +1 clip (Fender) +14 pop rivots, +1 screw +1 thin plate, +2 nuts, +2 washers (see picture, for 1 side)
If smb could advise the final measures shown in a sketch related to a 67 CV, I would be happy.
As mentioned by Richard :"I'll simply shoot a few pictures and include one of my left side fender with a tape measure lined up to the holes"
May be someone has the "original" screw/stud incl. plate (Fender) which I could buy instead of using the repro screw with this really thin metal-plate (even the complete OEM/NOS set?) It seems to be the postion B , but can not find the part in the 67 sketch.

My car is a SJ build 11/30/66 similar to Richards.
Ralf

Ralf, I believe I see the confusion here and my take on this is that is just another example of the assembly manuals (parts manuals Bob used) being off a little from the reality of what went onto the cars during assembly.  I hope I don't muddy the waters up here, but here we go.

Using the illustrations Bob provided earlier in this thread, the very FRONT mounting stud/clip of the CONVERTIBLE IMAGE is calling that stud/clip "B" (that is what you see in the CONVERTIBLE illustration) and did not supply an image, while in the Coupe and Fastback images it calls it out as item "M" and DID PROVIDE AN IMAGE. The larger problem here (cause for confusion) might be that the assembly line stud/clip image doesn't look AT ALL LIKE the one seen in either or any of these images. This is most likely because the shape of the clip in the assembly manual (or MPC books Bob referred to) drawing does not have the needed contour of the leading edge of the molding, as was typically used on the actual assembly line clips with the stud.

Ralf, the aftermarket clip you have looks very close to the ones typically used.  I doubt the nut provided with the aftermarket moldings is correct though, I believe the nut in the assembly manual illustration (fastback or coupe) IS CORRECT. 

Now, a better description of the most likely explanation of "WHY the assembly manual image of the forward-most stud/clip is different than what is typically found on original cars":

The rocker moldings would have been installed almost LAST (likely before the wheels & tires), but after the fender which is after the rear splash shield would be in place. The forwardmost stud/clip image seen in the assembly manual, would position that stud ON THE BACKSIDE (rearward) OF THE SPLASH SHIELD so the worker could not easily install the nut AT ALL!.  It appears that a different clip was produced to permit the stud mounting to be a bit more forward of the splash shield, giving the line worker access to install the retaining nut. 

Hard to say if very early cars were different than ones built in November or later but my original moldings seem to have had a screw drilled through the rocker molding itself on the leading edge, in place of the stud. Up till now, I have always thought this to be a "previous owner" thing.  I know MY ORIGINAL ones had the holes drilled through the rocker molding into the fender but I also know I replaced my rocker moldings in the late 70's (scrapes, scratches, fading shine) though I used whatever hardware Ford provided, I cannot remember what exactly I duplicated, what was original or what was the easiest solution of the time. What I found recently when I took my example apart was, on my fenders (LEFT SIDE, original fender) I found the hole for the stud/clip, the front stud, clip & nut (remember, I changed out my rocker moldings circa 1979 with OE Ford replacements) but it ALSO HAD A HOLE FOR THAT CHROMED SCREW, though the replacement rocker moldings DID NOT HAVE A HOLE IN EITHER SIDE! I just mentioned. I'm thinking the "chromed screw" (or hole) ought not be there, but what do I know?

For whatever else it is worth,   My passengers fender (the one I know I replaced in 1978) DID NOT HAVE THE HOLE FOR THE CHROME SCREW, but DID have the hole for the front stud/clip (no stud or nut present, but may have been lost) This RIGHT FENDER came from a car that DID NOT HAVE ROCKER MOLDINGS but was, by indications of the back side, a San Jose fender. 

Pictures of the ALL THE HOLES in my fenders alongside a tape measure to follow in the next post.