Topic: frustrating phospate and oil bolt and hardware

[argreenheads]

Please Help,.. I P/O ed a lot of my parts like the steering box, hood hinges, latches and ect.  They turned out beautiful.  matter of fact, Ill try to post a pick. However, the bolts, washers and what nots did not.  for the last few weeks I have painfully polished every bolt and part.  I first took photos of each piece with index cards to where they go.  Then I separated them into small batches. next, I degreased for several days in a soak wire brushing them every day or so. then washed them good and put them into a tumbler.  They look great at this point but I tried a small batch in the p/o and they came out very spotty and looked terrible. For the first time, I found myself looking up the prices on the AMK bolt packages.  I really want to use the original bolts but I can not stand to use these the way they came out.  Im now degreasing this batch and plain to re tumble and start over.  What is the trick here.  Should I just but the AMK or am I missing something.  I really thought they would turn out like the other parts but I was wrong.. need so help here.  frustrated ... 

[argreenheads]

Oh yeah.. note to self... if using a fish cooker to phosphate, do not spray wd-40 on the removed parts near the flame unless you want a fire in your wifes car garage.  already made the bed on the couch guys.!!!!!!!!!

[jwc66k]

Here's how I phosphate.
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=6994.msg57197#msg57197
Use the search feature of this forum for more.
Jim

[argreenheads]

see if this pic of my p/o attaches

[argreenheads]

by the way, I used Palmetto enterprises to buy the Phosphate. his name is scott and he was great to deal with.  I think he was in south Carolina or somewhere close.  he mailed the stuff right to my door.  a gallon was $114, 3 Quarts was 93$

[argreenheads]

ok Jim, I looked at the post and I still don't understand how you got them to turn out like that.  As u can see, I had great results on everything else.. but the bolts where really spotty and look about as bad as when I first pulled them.  what are you doing different to get those dark nice results.

[argreenheads]

could it be the difference of the blasting vrs the tumbler?  that's the only thing I see different??

[jwc66k]

could it be the difference of the blasting vrs the tumbler?  that's the only thing I see different??

Yup. The guy that does my zinc plating refers some of his clients to me that want phosphating because I bead blasting the items first. He doesn't have that service. Even a dip in hydrochloric acid first doesn't do as good as bead blasting.
Jim   

[CharlesTurner]

If you don't bead blast, you''ll at least have to acid etch them.  Even after all the cleaning you've done, there is still dirt/grease embedded in the surface.  Etching or bead blast opens up the surface pores so the phosphate can bond better. 

Your hood hinges look like the phosphate didn't take that well, from the pic, they look a little spotty.

You may want to use a regular motor oil to soak parts in for 24 hours, then clean them off and let them dry in for a few days.  After that, you can clean them with a mild soap/water solution to take the oily residue off.  Follow with something like boeshield.  Although, I have found that's not really necessary.  I have some fasteners I did over 5 years ago that I haven't used yet and still look as good as they did when freshly phosphated.

[argreenheads]

The spots might be because I sprayed them one more time with wd rgt before the pic. They are still a bit tacky to the touch but look really good to me anyways.  Ill bet tomorrow morning they will look even better.

[JKWilson]

Just out of curiosity, how closely did you follow the directions that Palmetto supplied? I have been familiar with their products ever since seeing Scott's father demo them at the Charlotte Spring Auto Fair over 30 years ago. I finally broke down and decided to do some of my stuff as well as hardware for a transmission I was restoring for someone. I had no difficulties whatsoever with my hood hinges, latch assembly or the various nuts and bolts I did. I bead blasted all of the parts first using very fine glass, then followed Palmetto's recommendations regarding cleaning and temperature ranges. I also utilized stainless steel pots to avoid any type of adverse reactions. Just a few things you may want to recheck.


p.s. You are correct, Scott is great to deal with!

[argreenheads]

I followed them exactly.  Wonder what the possibility of water quailty s effect on this process

[argreenheads]

Are you saying to motor oil soak them now or start all over?

[argreenheads]

Oil soak them now or start all over???

[Bob Gaines]

Please Help,.. I P/O ed a lot of my parts like the steering box, hood hinges, latches and ect.  They turned out beautiful.  matter of fact, Ill try to post a pick. However, the bolts, washers and what nots did not.  for the last few weeks I have painfully polished every bolt and part.  I first took photos of each piece with index cards to where they go.  Then I separated them into small batches. next, I degreased for several days in a soak wire brushing them every day or so. then washed them good and put them into a tumbler.  They look great at this point but I tried a small batch in the p/o and they came out very spotty and looked terrible. For the first time, I found myself looking up the prices on the AMK bolt packages.  I really want to use the original bolts but I can not stand to use these the way they came out.  Im now degreasing this batch and plain to re tumble and start over.  What is the trick here.  Should I just but the AMK or am I missing something.  I really thought they would turn out like the other parts but I was wrong.. need so help here.  frustrated ...

If the surface is too polished or smooth the zinc phosphate will not take well. That is why the items that are bead blasted which are slightly rough, zinc phosphate up much better then a similar no blasted part . Just what I have found.