ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: cmayna on October 23, 2009, 04:59:34 PM
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Does anyone have a pic of what the glovebox light fixture looks like that fastens to the glove box of a 67 or 68? I believe it is seperate from the switch.
Thanks
Craig
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The light goes through a hole in the metal part of the dash, doesn't attach to the liner.
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Charles would you happen to know what the diameter of that hole is? I'm considering fitting my car with a light.
thanks
Bruce
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i sure don't. Somewhere around 9/16", same size as 65/66.
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Charles,
Are you saying that the only way the light will light up the glove box interior is when the glove box door is fully open, aligning the lamp to the hole in the liner?
What a silly design.
Now, I was going to a box of misc Musang parts that I bought from someone else and found these. Mustang Unlimited calls the round lens as "67/68 glove box light lens". It seems to me that these brackets somehow get attached to the liner at the liner lamp hole and the wire gets attached to the switch.
(http://cmaynard.com/mustang/Shag/Electrical/GloveBoxLightLens.JPG)
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The light you have pictured looks to me as if it is a console cubby hole light, not a light for the glove box. I just checked my 68 -standard interior, console, April 03 build SJ plant, and it has no light in the glove box nor does it have a switch acuated by the glove box door to turn on a lightI have never replaced the glove box so I assume it came with no light or no switch. The light in the cubby hole of the console comes in with the dome light switch operated by each door as well as by rotating the headlight switch all of the way to left. Hope this is of some help. Trying to figure out a glove box light may be impossible if all 68Mustangs are like mine and have NO glove box light or switch at all.
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I will post pictures of a 1968 glove box light.
Mark Vasquez
Picture of 1968 glove box
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w97/mmvprv/PA240025.jpg)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w97/mmvprv/PA240026.jpg)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w97/mmvprv/PA240027-1.jpg)
last picture, I removed the light lense so you could see everything.
Mark Vasquez
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This seems crazy, but I just checked again, and the 68 CS I own does not have a glove box light or a light switch. The area where Mark has a switch has never been drilled - however there is a dimple in that location to indicate where the hole is to be drilled. The hole for the light to shine through is in the glove box liner, but no trace of a socket assembly exists on the left side of the glove box. Weird? So what indicates if a 68 is to be equipped with a glove box light?
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Guys, thanks for all the replies. Yes, I have the dimple where the hole should be drilled for the light/switch. Maybe, I'll go ahead and drill it and see how it turns out.
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Exactly what determines if a 68 has a glove box light or not? Anyone have any facts or even a guess about this?
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Exactly what determines if a 68 has a glove box light or not? Anyone have any facts or even a guess about this?
I'm going strictly off memory here, but believe there was some type of option in '68 that included the glove box light. Hopefully others who have a reference handy will chime in.
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(from a newbie reading old threads, sorry if it was already answered in a new thread ! ...)
Named "Courtesy Light Group" in the first 1968 brochure and "Visibility Group" in the second, this option included :
- under hood light (mercury switch)
- under luggage trunk compartment light (mercury switch)
- glove compartment light and lock
- for hardtop : under dash courtesy light (already included for FB and convert.)
Luc from Paris France with Mustang love !
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+1 Marty
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Attached are a couple of pictures of an NOS one. Note that the Part # is C3AZ-14413-A. The hole on my '67 is 1/2" diameter.
Bob
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Bob, thanks for sharing. It is hard for me to see but is the part number printed on the wire associated with the assembly? Did the assembly include a bulb, and if so what type?
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The Glove Box Lamp Assembly comes with a # 1895 Bulb (round glass globe, 14 volt, 0.27 amp, bayonet base). The feed wire is stamped " C3AB-14413-A2 SX FoMoCo".
Hope this helps.
Bob
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I guess I need to dredge this one up because I have different results. I cleaned mine up the other day and got a good look at the part number on the wire. It is C7ZB-14413-A1. Picture included, but it is not super clear. I used a magnifying glass and lots of light to verify the number.
The Jan 67 MPC does list the C3AZ-14413-A part number, but that is not what I have. To state the usual disclaimer, I can't be 100% certain on originality, but on something like this I'm pretty darn sure.
I suspect that there was an engineering change of some type, based on the new part number, and getting the documentation caught up (aka the wheels of justice) can take time.
Any others out there? What does the 68 MPC say about this?
Also in regards to the question "when did 67 cars get the glove box light", I can say that I don't have the courtesy light group option, but I do have interior décor, and I do have the glove box light. I would assume at this point that the glove box light is one of those "either or" things - either interior décor or courtesy lights.
Rather than create a new post, I figured it best to modify this post since there is good context. Also if we learn new things, an older post with potentially partially correct information should be added on to. Does that make sense? There is a post http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=3135.msg16716#msg16716 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=3135.msg16716#msg16716) that also refers to the courtesy light group. Since that one has a hyperlink here, I think we have enough of a closed loop so that I don't have to amend that one also.
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It is C7ZB-14413-A1. Picture included, but it is not super clear. I used a magnifying glass and lots of light to verify the number.
The Jan 67 MPC does list the C3AZ-14413-A part number, but that is not what I have.
The factory installed C7ZB-14413-A1. If you went to a Ford dealer for a replacement you got C3AZ-14413-A. It will fit, it will work, it is not factory original.
Remember, any time you see a "Z" in the fourth position of a Ford part number, it is a service part.
Jim
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John : Jim "beat me to the draw". I was going to say that finally it looks like we have an easy one. The 1960-68 MPC shows the same as the 67, except the C3AZ-14413-A changed to "-B" after 6/12/67. The 1965-72 MPC also shows C3AZ-14413-B. Next, I checked the OSI books; the C3AZ was never replaced by a "C7" number. Then it was time to check the Assembly Manuals; both the 1967 and 68 Electrical Assembly Manuals show the Glove Compartment Lamp Assembly as C7ZB-14413-A. Thus, as Jim noted, the Factory (or Assembly Line) part is the C7ZB part that you have, and the Service Part is the C3AZ.
Bob
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John : Not having the Courtesy Light Group, I'm not sure how you ended up with the Factory Glove Box Light. I checked the Sales Brochure, Showroom Option Book, and the Salesmen's Price Book, and the Glove Box Light does not show up in either the listings for the Interior Décor Group, or the GT Group; only in the Courtesy Light Group. Of course, the contents of these groups could have changed during production, but if so, I have no documentation of that. There is also the outside chance that it was just an Assembly Line screw up; possibly most cars ordered with the Interior Décor Group also had the Courtesy light Group, and when the Interior was done on the line, it was just added, incorrectly "assuming" ?
It would definitely be interesting to see how many "out there" might have the Factory Glove Box Light, but not the Courtesy Light Group. This should be fairly easy to check as your C7ZB wire feed has a green bullet connector, whereas every Service Part C3AB Glove Box light that I've seen has a black bullet connector.
Let's hear from some who have the same case as John's.
Bob
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Bob,
Good points. I did not add it, and am certain that the original owner did not either. She took everything that needed repair to the shop. Not one wire in the vehicle was ever cut, which is awesome for me. All original sheet metal, etc.
I think I also have glove box light, but will have to check tonight since I don't have a picture of it.
The Marti report does not indicate the courtesy light group. Plus there is no wire at the rear quarter if the rear light had been there at one point and subsequently removed.
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John : Isn't the switch/glove box light on the other end of the wire and connector you posted the pictures of in Reply #16 ? If not, I'm confused. According to the Electrical Assembly Manual, the Factory Glove Box Light looks just like the Service Part that I posted pictures of in Reply # 13 on September 28, except of course for the number on the wire and the green versus black bullet connector.
Please "en-lighten" me.
Bob
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John : Isn't the switch/glove box light on the other end of the wire and connector you posted the pictures of in Reply #16 ?
Yes, the light fixture/assembly is on the other end. I was just focusing on the wire that has the part number stamp.
I would agree that, yes, it looks identical to the service part, as near as I can tell by pictures. Having one of each side by side might reveal some differences.
To state the obvious this is indeed a very minor detail in the big scheme of things.
I do wonder though this - since the service part is a C3 part, and pertinent to several years and more than one car line, why in the heck would Ford make a C7, let alone a C7Z specific part? When you consider radiators for example, due to the cost and size, it makes sense to spend some money for 20 versions across a million cars, saving 50 cents here and there. When going to a much lower service volume, the versions are reduced dramatically. Its all about cost/profit. A little old glove box light fixture done this way boggles my mind. That is really why I posted the question. I knew/know the difference between factory and service parts. Does this line of questioning make sense?
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I think I also have glove box light, but will have to check tonight since I don't have a picture of it.
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John : I think the above is the statement that "threw" me since I figured you had to have the entire assembly.
As far as your line of questioning, I fully agree. Even if the C3 was a Service Part, it must have replaced some Factory Part that was very similar. So, I agree, why in the world would they "reinvent the wheel" ?
Bob
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aha. I meant to say was that I think I have the glove box locking knob (also part of the courtesy light group), but don't have a pic so will check. So I checked, and yes I have the lock, and it matches the original key set. So I've got two of the four parts of the courtesy light group, and the other two I definitely don't have.
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I do wonder though this - since the service part is a C3 part, and pertinent to several years and more than one car line, why in the heck would Ford make a C7, let alone a C7Z specific part? When you consider radiators for example, due to the cost and size, it makes sense to spend some money for 20 versions across a million cars, saving 50 cents here and there. When going to a much lower service volume, the versions are reduced dramatically. Its all about cost/profit. A little old glove box light fixture done this way boggles my mind. That is really why I posted the question. I knew/know the difference between factory and service parts. Does this line of questioning make sense?
This is pure speculation:
1) Engineering created a C7ZA part without realizing the C3AB part would work, or simply didn't realize a compatible part already existed (missed it in a search).
2) When the part number was created, the plan was to create a unique part, and instead they ended up with essentially a copy of the C3AB part.
3) The C7ZA part was intentionally the same as the C3AB, but that part number was "too old" so they pulled a C7ZA assembly number. I've seen a few cases where it appears to me that Ford created a new number for a part that appeared to be identical to a part used perhaps 5-10 years earlier.
I'l reiterate, these possibilities are reasons I can think of why Ford might have made a '67-specific part number. I have no evidence that any of these scenarios took place. But these are the kinds of situations I see in my day-to-day experience in manufacturing. And while cost and profit are the primary drivers, sometimes choices are made for other reasons, such as reducing assembly errors, or because of problems with a supplier. And sometimes people make decisions that unintentionally end up costing more money; it just happens. Especially on minor detail items like this - they tend to get a lot less attention and scrutiny than big, expensive, complicated components.
When you consider how much work goes into each and every component and fastener in a vehicle, and how many vehicles and TYPES of vehicles Ford made (and still makes), it is astonishing how well the system actually worked. Sorry, this stuff fascinates me and I get a little carried away sometimes! :D
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aha. I meant to say was that I think I have the glove box locking knob (also part of the courtesy light group), but don't have a pic so will check. So I checked, and yes I have the lock, and it matches the original key set. So I've got two of the four parts of the courtesy light group, and the other two I definitely don't have.
John : Now that makes more sense - or confuses the issue even more, depending on how one looks at it. So you basically have the Interior portions of the Courtesy Light Group; this now makes me wonder, since yours is an "Early" build, were the Glove Compartment Light and lock originally part of the "Interior Décor" option, and then eliminated at a later date ? As your Marti has no reference to the courtesy Light Group, this could be the case ?
Does anyone "out there" have any documentation of this being the case, or have the same situation on their car with only the Interior portion of the Courtesy Light Group (which would also include an under-dash light if a Hardtop) but not the Hood or Luggage Compartment lamps, with the Interior Décor option ? This would be interesting to know.
Bob
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I have Ford's early option catalogue and there is no mention of the glove box lock or light under the interior décor group. The most likely scenario is those items were added by the dealer for the first owner or the PO add them. They would have not been hard to get from Ford service or a salvage yard.
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Marty : You are correct that these two options would be pretty easy to add (I added both of these to my 67 in the early 80's). However, you wouldn't get the Factory C7ZB Glove Compartment Light from the Dealer Parts Department, and you would have to have the Glove Compartment Lock rekeyed to match the Trunk Lock. Possible, but highly unlikely knowing the History of John's car (see John's previous replies to this Post Topic).
My resources for 1967 Options are a 1967 Mustang Sales Brochure (dated 1-67), a 1967 Salesman's Price Guide (dated 3-67), and the 1967 Ford Options Showroom GBC bound "flip chart" (not dated, but marked "Vol 67 C11LB", so probably a 67 publication. You noted you had an "early" options catalog; what is it, and what is the date on it ? As you can see, mine are all after John's build date of 12/20/66, so my resources are not necessarily valid when his car was built.
Thanks for your input.
Bob
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Marty : You are correct that these two options would be pretty easy to add (I added both of these to my 67 in the early 80's). However, you wouldn't get the Factory C7ZB Glove Compartment Light from the Dealer Parts Department, and you would have to have the Glove Compartment Lock rekeyed to match the Trunk Lock. Possible, but highly unlikely knowing the History of John's car (see John's previous replies to this Post Topic).
My resources for 1967 Options are a 1967 Mustang Sales Brochure (dated 1-67), a 1967 Salesman's Price Guide (dated 3-67), and the 1967 Ford Options Showroom GBC bound "flip chart" (not dated, but marked "Vol 67 C11LB", so probably a 67 publication. You noted you had an "early" options catalog; what is it, and what is the date on it ? As you can see, mine are all after John's build date of 12/20/66, so my resources are not necessarily valid when his car was built.
Thanks for your input.
Bob
I am with Marty on this one, very easy to find ALL OF THESE ITEMS mentioned plus a trunk lock from another car in a salvage yard that are keyed the same and very easily switched out. I've done it too! Any car I had back in the day would get every EASY upgrade imaginable, I was at some places know as the "Junkyard Dog", so trust me...nothing is off the list of possibilities on such things.
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Richard : I did not mean to imply that Marty's premise wasn't a possibility ; I too, in my 55 plus years of "junking" (and still going by the way), have done that exact thing many times myself. I was just saying, that knowing the high degree of confidence that John has that his car has not been "compromised" (John can expound on that if he wishes), that with" his car", it was unlikely (note that I said "unlikely", not impossible) that this scenario occurred.
Bob
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Of course I can't say much with a 100% confidence level that these components are original. But I can say that it is reasonable to make that deduction, based on:
1. Talking to the original owner, female, that did absolutely nothing on the car herself.
2. Having records of work done by auto repair shops
3. Items that would typically be upgraded first (radio, speaker(s), exhaust) were not
4. Original date coded carb, distributor, rear shocks (but not front), carpet. Original ball joints, radiator, drive-shaft u-joints, etc. Original trunk mat.
5. No evidence that the interior had ever been out before I did it. Zero wires cut.
Known items touched:
1. Rear axle replaced (but rear springs original)
2. Front shocks
3. Water pump and alternator
4. Thermactor system air pump and hoses removed
I'm certainly not stressed over the situation. I am secure in the decision to put it back the way I found it in 1979. But I am interested in the forensic speculation of how things like this may have occurred. I always learn something with the back and forth dialog.
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One thought - for factory installations, was the hole for the switch drilled before the dash was painted, or after? If the factory drilled before paint, you might be able to tell by examining the edges of the hole. If the factory drilled after paint, then this won't add any evidence either way.
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The hole occurred after the dash was painted and the hole was not drilled. Rather it was punched as were all holes done at the factory. If you see spiraling in the hole then it was not done at the factory! (Maybe dealer, maybe PO or PO representative).
It always is possible that the assembly line worker erroneously punched the hole and installed the box courtesy light on the your Mustang. Check out the hole and see how it matches to my description above.
Regards,
Pete Morgan
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Marty : You are correct that these two options would be pretty easy to add (I added both of these to my 67 in the early 80's). However, you wouldn't get the Factory C7ZB Glove Compartment Light from the Dealer Parts Department, and you would have to have the Glove Compartment Lock rekeyed to match the Trunk Lock. Possible, but highly unlikely knowing the History of John's car (see John's previous replies to this Post Topic).
My resources for 1967 Options are a 1967 Mustang Sales Brochure (dated 1-67), a 1967 Salesman's Price Guide (dated 3-67), and the 1967 Ford Options Showroom GBC bound "flip chart" (not dated, but marked "Vol 67 C11LB", so probably a 67 publication. You noted you had an "early" options catalog; what is it, and what is the date on it ? As you can see, mine are all after John's build date of 12/20/66, so my resources are not necessarily valid when his car was built.
Thanks for your input.
Bob
Bob I believe that I may have the same option flip guide you have mine is vol. 67C11L8 . Generally These were printed before or near the start of the model year production. Some questions on these cars we may never know the answers to. I would do as John has said and put it back as he found it.
Marty
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The hole occurred after the dash was painted and the hole was not drilled. Rather it was punched as were all holes done at the factory. If you see spiraling in the hole then it was not done at the factory! (Maybe dealer, maybe PO or PO representative).
It always is possible that the assembly line worker erroneously punched the hole and installed the box courtesy light on the your Mustang. Check out the hole and see how it matches to my description above.
Regards,
Pete Morgan
Pete, thanks for the tip and the insight. I've got a donor dash from a car with the courtesy group option, pictured in red. The hole is punched, but it looks like the red paint covers the edge and was painted after the punch (assay line or later I can't say, but the car had that unrestored original feeling if you know what I mean)
In blue is my car, so repainted. The hole also looks punched. Both cars feel the same
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Attached are a couple of pictures of an NOS one. Note that the Part # is C3AZ-14413-A. The hole on my '67 is 1/2" diameter.
Bob
Bob gets the prize. I was going to post the NOS unit I have. The hole in the lower left side is .500". There is a VERY good reproduction out there offered from NPD. It even has the part number on the wire, as the Ford unit does. 8)
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Dredging back up to include a picture. The one on the bottom is from my car, and has a C7ZB part number on the wire and green molded connector. The one on the top is the "C3AZ-14413-A" version; note the "fat pin" type plunger which is very visible when the glove box door is open.