ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: Pete Bush on September 29, 2011, 06:57:28 AM
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Bryan,
Here is a suggested Assembly Line Flow to get you started:
1. Vehicle sales order transmitted to production floor
2. Startup on the Body and Paint line (BP)
3. Rotation Number and build options assigned
4. Assemble Front Structure subassembly on “Merry-Go-Round”
5. VIN Number stamped
6. Front Floor Pan Assembly
7. Rear Floor Pan Assembly
8. Quarter panels, trunk, and roof sheet metal
9. “Body-In –White” complete and loaded onto skid (Tool #49-ZF-3089) and moved into paint shop
10. Primer
11. Interior color
12. Exterior Color
13. Engine bay
14. Convertible & vinyl top fabric
15. Holding and inspection
16. Rotation number re-start for Trim and Chassis line – broadcast sheet generated
17. Startup on Trim and Chassis line (TC)
18. Data plate riveted to door and paper broadcast sheet taped to radiator support
19. Dashboard assemblies installed
20. Electrical components
21. Glass
22. “Body Drop” – chassis hoisted off skid and settled onto rear axle/leaf spring assembly
23. Engine and transmission installed
24. Front end sheet metal, fenders, and grille assemblies
25. Hood
26. Wheels & tires
27. Front seats installed
28. Fluids installed
29. Engine startup and testing
30. Holding and inspection
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Pete,
Just to give me an idea, how 000% certain are you of this sequence?
And give me a feel for how you put this list together.
Thanks,
Bryan
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I'd say that the list is about 80-90% accurate. I'm not sure about the VIN stamping (item #5). It actually might have been performed later, but sometime before paint.
The list was compiled from references and pictures of the Dearborn plant during the early years of Mustang production. Some of the items are references from the Allen Park facility (per Bob Fria's book).
As I go through my files and pictures, I'll update accordingly. This is just a starting point to familiarize you.
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Finally found it!!!
A picture reference by Jim Smart indicating the VIN number was stamped sometime after the roof assembly was welded on.
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The list was compiled from references and pictures of the Dearborn plant during the early years of Mustang production. Some of the items are references from the Allen Park facility (per Bob Fria's book).
Remember that Allen Park didn't assemble production cars that was where they showed the plants how they had figured out how to assemble - of course they took that info back with them and modified that to fit their plant, layout and specific situation
Couple comments
The inspections were an on going thing - some may have taken place at mid point but most took place on the line to correct the problem (if any) before another part got put in the way or would effect the visibility of the problem or its fix. Some of the inspectors (not the final inspectors) described being on the line with the assembly workers
Was told by a manager that the tops were handled after they got to the holding area since few cars needed this and if handled on the line it would slow up all the car
Not sure what you mean by "dash board assembly"? Think the electrical would need to be in place before you closed up the dash. and of course the main loom would have to be in.
Dearborn in 65-66 looks like the wheels were on before much of the interior parts were added
Noticed you skipped the suspension That would have to be before your "body drop" thing
Looking at some pictures the rear wheels were on before the front ones and before the front sheet metal. This would allow them to spray the front wheelwells after everything is in place but apparently they already had the rear ones in place - looking at the pictures
Looking at Dearborn pictures 65-66 looks like hood after wheels and tires possible one of the last things. Guess that would make things easier if there was engine start up issues, filling fluids and such
Looking at pictures they might have done some of the fluids at the same time as front seats
Enough for now
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I used Bob Fria's description of Allen Park assembly as it gave the sequence of major components. It is one of the most complete written descriptions I have found to-date.
I'd agree about ongoing inspections, but without specific details, I don't know where to insert them into the flow of things.
The "dash board assembly" is a term that Fria used. I believe that he's probably talking about the dash pad and instrument cluster. I'd agree that the wiring loom would logically precede this, but I have no pictures of same.
I've been doing a comparative analysis, as you have, of pictures. Front seats and carpeting appear to have been installed after wheels. Door panels were installed much earlier. Like you, I've been inferring some things based upon parts that couldn't have been placed before another parts was, for instance, glass before door panels, or carpet before console.
I have a portion of video clip that shows the front and rear wheels being installed simultaneously after the front fenders were installed, and after the front sheet metal was in place.
I have fluids installed after the hood, and the air cleaner was not installed until after the hood also. I'm guessing the air cleaner wasn't installed until after start up so that the carburetor could be primed.
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I've updated my suggestion for a flow chart and say it's probably 90-95% accurate. There might be some minor items, such as the console that might be out of position by one or two spaces. The side mirror may have been placed before the console. Or the front seats.
Dearborn
1. Vehicle sales order transmitted to production floor
2. Startup on the Body and Paint line (BP)
3. Rotation Number and build options assigned
4. Assemble Front Structure subassembly on “Merry-Go-Round”
5. Front Floor Pan Assembly
6. Rear Floor Pan Assembly
7. Quarter panels, Rocker panel (holes punched for accent molding before attached to car)
8. Trunk, and roof sheet metal
9. Lead Work
10. VIN Number stamped
11. “Body-In –White” complete and loaded onto skid (Tool #49-ZF-3089) and moved into paint shop
12. Primer
13. Interior color
14. Exterior Color
15. Engine bay
16. Convertible & vinyl top fabric (boot?)
17. Holding and inspection
18. Rotation number re-start for Trim and Chassis line – broadcast sheet generated
19. Startup on Trim and Chassis line (TC)
20. Data plate riveted to door and paper broadcast sheet taped to radiator support
21. Wiring and Electrical components
22. Glass
23. Dashboard, Sunvisors and door panel assemblies installed
24. Quarter Accent molding
25. Tail-Lights
26. Front suspension
27. Brake lines
28. “Body Drop” – chassis hoisted off skid and settled onto rear axle/leaf spring assembly
29. Steering column and steering wheel
30. Engine and transmission installed
31. Rear bumper
32. Front fenders
33. Front end sheet metal, grille assemblies, Front Valance w/ parking lights, Headlight bucket
34. Front Bumper
35. Rocker Molding
36. Wheels & tires
37. Headlights
38. Hood
39. Carpet
40. Console
41. Front seats installed
42. Side mirror (remote mirror installed earlier)
43. Fluids installed
44. Engine startup and testing
45. Air Cleaner
46. Accent stripes installed
47. Quality Control Area - Holding and inspection
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WOW! at 90-95% ... I'm gonna get started. Does anyone know at what point in this process the body (still on skid) changed from nose-first travel, to sideways travel, like shown in the Martha and the Vandellas video?
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WOW! at 90-95% ... I'm gonna get started. Does anyone know at what point in this process the body (still on skid) changed from nose-first travel, to sideways travel, like shown in the Martha and the Vandellas video?
Help me out please - are we discussing Dearborn or NJ in 65-66?
If NJ do we even know it they did that at that plant?
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I've updated my suggestion for a flow chart and say it's probably 90-95% accurate. .........
A couple of items I noticed
20. Data plate riveted to door and paper broadcast sheet taped to radiator support
Buiildsheets were added to the front and rear of the body to assist workers in identifying the car as approached from either end
28. “Body Drop” – chassis hoisted off skid and settled onto rear axle/leaf spring assembly
29. Steering column and steering wheel
Steering column and wheel are in place when the body was placed on the rear suspension. Check out the dark color coupe in the one picture dropping down on the rear suspension. Steering wheel is very visible - so the column must have been there also
35. Rocker Molding
36. Wheels & tires
If you look at the picture of the guy putting on the rocker molding - the rear tire is in place while the front tire is not yet installed
In one of the 66 pictures I have of the body drop taking place with the front fenders, grill, headlight buckets but no front valance already installed so apparently they did things differently in 66 verses 64-65 or we have pictures from two different plants. In that picture the bodies are not coming to the rear suspension at the same part of the plant (looks completely different) or as mentioned - two different places
Might need to rethink some of these
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35. Rocker Molding
36. Wheels & tires
If you look at the picture of the guy putting on the rocker molding - the rear tire is in place while the front tire is not yet installed
Jeff, here's a link to the Martha Reeves video circa 1965 Dearborn. Look at the part of the video where they are installing wheels - about 2:32 minutes into it. Rocker molding is on and both wheels going on at the same time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy_JTGhKtdg&NR=1
All,
Jeff and I are looking at photos and video clips - and noting changes from one photo of the line to another downstream. Sometimes there are several parts that have been placed during the interval between photos and it's difficult to say the exact order of when each of them was placed.
Buiildsheets were added to the front and rear of the body to assist workers in identifying the car as approached from either end
Do you have a picture reference? I'm lacking one.
Steering column and wheel are in place when the body was placed on the rear suspension. Check out the dark color coupe in the one picture dropping down on the rear suspension. Steering wheel is very visible - so the column must have been there also
Right you are! I didn't notice it the first time - because of the windshield glare I guess. Good catch :)
In one of the 66 pictures I have of the body drop taking place.......
Mind if I take a look?
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Does anyone know at what point in this process the body (still on skid) changed from nose-first travel, to sideways travel, like shown in the Martha and the Vandellas video?
The line makes several such turns. At the start of the video the car are coming rear end first, before making a 90 degree turn. At body drop the car is facing forward. I have another photo where they're all lined up sideways. Sequence looks to be between those noted above.
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Jeff, here's a link to the Martha Reeves video circa 1965 Dearborn. Look at the part of the video where they are installing wheels - about 2:32 minutes into it. Rocker molding is on and both wheels going on at the same time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy_JTGhKtdg&NR=1
Any one confirm that this was a typical day or a improved film (not unusual for magazines and other publicity shots)?
Buiildsheets were added to the front and rear of the body to assist workers in identifying the car as approached from either end
Do you have a picture reference? I'm lacking one.
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/Fatory%20shots/EarlyDearborn-frontbuildsheetattached.jpg)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/Fatory%20shots/64-5Dearbornrearbuildsheet2.jpg)
Not sure which plant this is - but guessing Dearborn
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/Fatory%20shots/64-65LIneshot.jpg)
In one of the 66 pictures I have of the body drop taking place has much of the front sheet metal in place before the car was lowered on the rear suspension
Mind if I take a look?
Never mind :( it was in the wrong sub folder - should have been in the 66 Dutch factory folder. Noticed it when I checked the file name
Sorry
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I've been over the photos again, and I can't find a build sheet taped to the rear of a vehicle until sometime around when the front sheet metal was being applied. Would suggest that since the build sheets that were taped to the radiator support were soon to be covered up, that they were removed and taped to the rear.
Also, In the photo that you provided, I can't find a build sheet on the white car in the foreground where the worker is installing carpet. ???
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I've been over the photos again, and I can't find a build sheet taped to the rear of a vehicle until sometime around when the front sheet metal was being applied. Would suggest that since the build sheets that were taped to the radiator support were soon to be covered up, that they were removed and taped to the rear.
Number of the cars out there (in pictures) have it applied to the drivers side fender )possibliy both but at this point only seen drivers side front fender
Also, In the photo that you provided, I can't find a build sheet on the white car in the foreground where the worker is installing carpet. ???
Yes noticed that - might have fallen off that car - guess you'll have to ask the carpet installer ;)
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WOW again! This is exactly what I hoped would happen. The information is being contributed at a steady rate and the puzzle is coming together. Thanks.
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I found a couple of references in Marti's Tagbook (pgs. 31 & 126) indicating that for the 1966 model year the warranty data plate that was attached to the door, and the metal strip on the owner card, were one piece that were stamped together and then separated.
The owner card portion was then attached to the owner card and inserted into a clip in the glove box.
Would it be reasonable to assume that this entire procedure, including the attachment of the warranty data plate to the door, took place at the same time - that being when the glove box was present in the car? If that's the case, then the data plate wasn't installed on the car at the beginning of the Trim & Chassis line, but sometime later when the glove box was installed - and probably the underdash wiring harness that feed the emergency flasher and glove box light.
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I found a couple of references in Marti's Tagbook (pgs. 31 & 126) indicating that for the 1966 model year the warranty data plate that was attached to the door, and the metal strip on the owner card, were one piece that were stamped together and then separated........
Never seen one from an early car - not sure if it was done the same way during 64-66. Not sure if the larger 65 door tag with an addition to be removed would have fit in the stamping machine
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/My%20details/8T03S115948.jpg)
Would it be reasonable to assume that this entire procedure, including the attachment of the warranty data plate to the door, took place at the same time - that being when the glove box was present in the car? ...................
IMHO not a safe to assume that. Its a little detail and think not making an that linkage is better than making the wrong one if this list is going beyond this discussion since many would take things as facts (we've seen it too many times before) rather than guesses no matter what explanation accompanies it ;)
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Never seen one from an early car - not sure if it was done the same way during 64-66. Not sure if the larger 65 door tag with an addition to be removed would have fit in the stamping machine
Marti says in his book, that the practice was introduced in 1966 - so it wouldn't apply to 64-65. I believe the A-M machine would only accommodate 2.5" x 3.5".
IMHO not a safe to assume that. Its a little detail and think not making an that linkage is better than making the wrong one if this list is going beyond this discussion since many would take things as facts (we've seen it too many times before) rather than guesses no matter what explanation accompanies it ;)
I hear what you're saying, but don't forget, the current location of the warranty tag installation in the flow chart is an assumption as well. I don't have any photos that would establish a definitive time line - just written descriptions. It's possible that for the 64-65 model years, that the tag was installed in the sequence we currently have. And beginning in 66 the tag was installed later in assembly. I really don't see the 3/4" x 3-1/2" strip that would become part of the owner card kicking around on the floor boards of the car waiting for the glove box to be installed. ;)
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I have 20 or 30 individual pics, (you guys have probably seen them. They are from 35mm B&W film roll) that I'd like to put somewhere so they could be shuffled into chronological order with a # 1 through ?? and so anyone with certain knowledge could post captions under the pictures describing what is being done by the workers, as well as any details of the tooling and equipment we are seeing in the background.
Can anyone help me?
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Bryan,
You can send copies to my email: petebush@comcast.net
I would think that Jeff could also help. And maybe Charles? Maybe others?
You can then pool the results and look for any discrepancies. The group can then discuss the rationale behind the order and build consensus from there.
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You could put them in the sites photo library then they could be posted to the thread and shuffled within the thread
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I think that's what I'll do tomorrow. They are small pictures, probably only a few hundred pixels each, but if you squint a little, you can really see a lot of detail. It's amazing how your brain fills in the data that's not there.
Pete, I'll email them to you tomorrow.
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It's amazing how your brain fills in the data that's not there.
Actually, that can be more a hindrance than a help. Often times the brain fills in information that shouldn't be there. ;) Have you ever gotten eyewitness reports of a suspect from several people that varied immensely? That's why it's good having many eyes looking at it, and building consensus and logic to support the ordering.
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Just added 39 SMALL old assembly line pictures that may provide some information.
They are in my gallery.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/0/330-051011120624-5971011.jpeg)
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Bryan,
Wouldn't it be easier to sort them in batches by referencing the film strip number in the original photo grouping below?
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Good stuff-thanks for posting.
I visited the Ford World Headquarters last summer and I found a small file of PR shots (File #CN-3195) in their photo department in the basement. They were from August of '64 and showed a family touring the Dearborn Assembly Plant. They are color shots and show some nice scenes. The problem was they wanted $50 each for the photos, way too expensive to buy just for the heck of it. But, if anyone is really serious, those shots are there waiting to be purchased. ;)
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I visited the Ford World Headquarters last summer and I found a small file of PR shots (File #CN-3195) in their photo department in the basement. They were from August of '64 and showed a family touring the Dearborn Assembly Plant. They are color shots and show some nice scenes. The problem was they wanted $50 each for the photos, way too expensive to buy just for the heck of it. But, if anyone is really serious, those shots are there waiting to be purchased. ;)
Gary how many shots in the set??
Unfortunately $50 is about the going rate these days. Maybe we can work on this for the site
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Jeff-
There are 24 shots in the set, but of those, 12 are actually in the plant. The others are in some guy's office shaking hands and looking pretty. The factory shots show the engine drop area, a huge pallet full of Rally Pacs waiting to be installed, a work area with fender emblems, engine bay and front wheelhouse details before fenders were installed, fenders on hooks traveling to the assembly line and a few other shots with Mustangs in the background going down the line. Good shots for sure.
Gary
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Here is a suggested sequence for the photos using Bryan's letter codes and the film strip numbers.
Group #1 Firewall/ Toe Board – BP Line
AA – 15
BB – 16
CC – 17
DD – 18
EE – 19
FF – 20
GG – 21
HH – 22
Group #2 Quarter Panel – BP Line
LL – 4
MM – 5
NN – 6
OO – 7
PP – 8
QQ – 9
RR – 10
SS – 11
TT – 12
Group #3 Body Prep Before Paint – BP Line
X – 17
Y – 18
W – 19
V – 20
U – 21
T – 22
S – 23
R – 24
Q – 25 (Bryan I think you forgot this picture)
P – 26
O – 27
N – 28
M – 29
L – 30
K – 31
J – 32
I – 33
JJ – 34
KK – 35
Group #4 Before & After Front Fenders – TC Line
UU – 13
VV – 14
WW – 15
XX – 16
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There's two more assembly line photos in the bottom left-hand corner of this collection of pictures.
As near as I can tell, the pictures that Bryan posted are of Dearborn 1966 production.
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Thanks Pete,
Now that we have a chronology for the pics, lets try this:
If everyone would take picture AA, and write everything they can observe or have knowledge of, about what we are seing in the picture.
What's going on? What do you know about the equipment and tooling? What tiny details do you see in the picture that most would not notice?
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If everyone would take picture AA, and write everything they can observe or have knowledge of, about what we are seing in the picture..........
"AA"?? I see numbers for each negative - like 18, 19, ....
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Attached are two illustrations of the first processes on the Body & Paint (BP) line.
I believe that the the early pictures in Group #1 of the firewall begin with a sub-assembly area that is feeding parts to the main line. Perhaps workers are preparing holes.
Group #1 pictures: DD-18, EE-19, and FF-20 are early assembly line photos of the front structure assembly; around the time of the merry-go round or perhaps shortly after.
Time was about 3:17 pm.
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Wait...
It's difficult to tell, but is the guy in picture AA-15 the same one as in FF-20? If so, all the pictures in Group #1 might be of the merry-go-round taken from different angles.
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Pete,
What pub' did those those 2 pictures come out of? I have never seen them.
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Those particular photos came from Bob Fria's book Mustang Genesis, although they had footnotes that they were provided by Ford Motor Co.
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Have you got any pics or ideas how the "merry-go-round" was laid out?
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All I have are verbal descriptions. Here are two:
“The front structure assembly was built first. It was created by assembling, in the fixture nicknamed the “Merry-Go-Round”, the dash panel (also sometimes referred to as cowl or firewall), the left and right inner engine compartment apron panel assemblies, the radiator support, and the outer side frame members. These pieces were spot welded into one single assembly.”
Mustang Genesis – Bob Fria (pg. 150)
“The Mustang’s engine box, known simply as the “front end assembly” at Ford in those days, was assembled in a huge jig that was part of the “Merry-Go-Round” where several front end assemblies were assembled and welded together by automatic and human welders. The Merry-Go-Round concept originated when 1962 Fairlane production began at Dearborn in 1961.”
Mustang Production Guide Vol. 1 – Jim Smart & Jim Haskell (pg. 7)
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Bryan,
Here's a link that may help you. Although it talks primarily about the 1997 Mustang Assembly Line, it might help you with the definition of some areas - and the scale of operations.
http://www.atomicfrog.com/mirrors/www.blueovalnews.com/mustangline.htm
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Here are some links to 1994-95 assembly line footage:
1994-95 Mustang Assembly Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j5g95AGdQ0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUUEYMzWGHw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P0Sma4MSI0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYdPwCqc1X8&feature=related
I realize that techniques and sequence may change, but it might provide some insights on how ford did things in the mid-60's - by comparing to the few pictures and videos we have surviving from that era.
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Here is some more interesting stuff: http://home.planet.nl/~nugte075/dearborn/index.htm (http://home.planet.nl/~nugte075/dearborn/index.htm) !