ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: 1965GTFB on September 17, 2013, 07:57:34 PM
-
'67 FB project
Car was originally non AC
Installing Factory AC from donor(donor car is long gone or I would check there)
New firewall pad from NPD has the screw holes(with no cut-out in the pad) that line up(pretty much) with the two screw holes in the firewall but it also has a cut-out that is about the size and shape of the fuse box but it is up higher on the firewall. The cut-out is just above and a little to the DS of the knock-out for the AC hoses for dealer installed hang on AC.
So is the fuse box in the same location with either Factory AC or no AC?
Also, the spout on the fan box(looks similar to the drain hose spout on the evap/heater core box), is it supposed have a hose connected to it(would kind of look like the water pump bypass hose)? If so where does the other end connect to? I'm remembering on my oldest son's 68 that there was a hose from the fan box to the fan motor. The motor on this '67 does not any thing that looks like a hose would attach to it.
-
The fuse block does not change location with or with out AC. The hose connection on the blower case is for blower motor cooling but not all cars had them. It was a premolded hose that would be real tough to find if you do not have one.
Marty
-
Should all '67 fuse boxes have the metal plate, that zig zags up to the left for the relay to mount on, under them?
-
Should all '67 fuse boxes have the metal plate, that zig zags up to the left for the relay to mount on, under them?
Do not believe so, only ones I've seen with it are cars with fog lights or AC. Assuming this is the one you are talking about. I call it the "Z plate", for lack of a better term...
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h180/dalorzof/68%20SJ%20S%20code%20GT%20coupe/coupe_0064_jul_06_small-1.jpg) (http://s64.photobucket.com/user/dalorzof/media/68%20SJ%20S%20code%20GT%20coupe/coupe_0064_jul_06_small-1.jpg.html)
-
Should all '67 fuse boxes have the metal plate, that zig zags up to the left for the relay to mount on, under them?
The breaker /Accessory plate was used mostly in 68. Could have been used on latter 67's but I have not seen one. The 67 wiring got power off the hot post on the ignition switch and used a in line fuse holder.
Marty
-
Yep, that's the one. My older son's '68 that we built had it and it was a factory AC car. The current '67 project was not factory AC but I'm installing factory AC from a donor that is long gone and that's a piece I failed to grab off the donor. Any thoughts on the best place to find one? Also, where it is probably makes it a pain to measure it but if you have one you could measure I could make one.
-
I've just worked on two 67's, Nov and Feb builds, neither had this plate. As stated this was a 68 thing, possibly late 67. Take a look at your donor car wiring - if you have the inline fuse, that will pull power from the ignition switch as Marty stated and you don't need the z plate with breaker. How "correct" do you want to go? Obviously a period factory Ford system is better than after market or a Ford over the counter/dealer installed add on. You can certainly stop there. Next would be related to revisions over time to wiring (as this thread discusses). Another is related to pulleys, idler, and brackets, particularly with the 289 - there were a lot of changes (see Mannel's book). What plant, engine, and build date?
Some pics might help. From a Dearborn Dec 66 AC car:
First is the fuse box with no Z plate/circuit breaker
Second is the inline fuse tapped off the ignition switch
Third is a "plate" for mounting a relay that is screwed to the windshield washer motor bracket. A little hard to see this one.
-
San Jose plant.
5/16/67 build date per the Ford 999 report.
Not sure what the build date was for the donor(long gone) that the AC parts came off of. I think it ws a SJ palnt car.
-
Yep, the pic I posted is a Dec 67 San Jose GT coupe. Same in my April 68 GT/CS.
I may have one loose I can measure. I found someone who had one for sale, not reproduced AFAIK, but easy to make a very close facsimile...
-
If you need a Z plate, I have a nice one from a 68 with the hole for the relay. PM me or e-mail me.
-
Here are pics of a "Z" plate removed from a December built Dearborn car (with AC and convenience control). As stated previously, this was attached to the wiper arm motor bracket, not next to the fuse panel. Most of the 67's that have seen are done like this - but most AC cars I've seen are Dearborn and Metuchen. Could be an early/late thing, and perhaps with transitions different based on the plant.
-
Here is a picture of the blower motor hose that Marty mentioned. Marty's comment that not all had them is interesting. I suppose that the connection on the box would be blanked off with a plug, or perhaps the box was redesigned to eliminate it.
-
I've just worked on two 67's, Nov and Feb builds, neither had this plate. As stated this was a 68 thing, possibly late 67. Take a look at your donor car wiring - if you have the inline fuse, that will pull power from the ignition switch as Marty stated and you don't need the z plate with breaker. How "correct" do you want to go? Obviously a period factory Ford system is better than after market or a Ford over the counter/dealer installed add on. You can certainly stop there. Next would be related to revisions over time to wiring (as this thread discusses). Another is related to pulleys, idler, and brackets, particularly with the 289 - there were a lot of changes (see Mannel's book). What plant, engine, and build date?
Some pics might help. From a Dearborn Dec 66 AC car:
First is the fuse box with no Z plate/circuit breaker
Second is the inline fuse tapped off the ignition switch
Third is a "plate" for mounting a relay that is screwed to the windshield washer motor bracket. A little hard to see this one.
Interesting picture I just found while researching options for choices on me AC heater motor restoring. This would have been posted before I joined so I just stumbled upon it.
The picture of the relay bracket's mounting position is curious. Maybe a "plant thing" since this is a Dearborn example and no mention of it being GT or with Fog lights. I have my wiper motor & bracket off the car and I have it pre-assembled to go on my 11/2/66 built SJ with options of AC., Convenience Control w/ Low Fuel relay, Tilt-away Wheel, Fog Lights & Deluxe Seat Belts and best to my recollection, pre-assembled closest I know to do. (see pictures attached)
It looks to me that the '67 style plate I have is mounted differently, into other screw holes than the plate that you show here John. Disregard the aftermarket circuit breaker pictured but all pieces I have pictured are where I understood them to go.
Maybe Marty can get a shot of his 11/4/66 SJ example of this detail to possibly shed some light on the arrangement of this bracket on his example. ???
-
Maybe Marty can get a shot of his 11/4/66 SJ example of this detail to possibly shed some light on the arrangement of this bracket on his example. ???
I'll see what I can do but not as easy to photo in my car as on your floor. ;D
-
Here is a picture of the blower motor hose that Marty mentioned. Marty's comment that not all had them is interesting. I suppose that the connection on the box would be blanked off with a plug, or perhaps the box was redesigned to eliminate it.
Though we're getting off track a bit I only recall seeing that configuration (motor with the hose) on 69 with the power vent option (plus other Ford applications)
Guess should be spelled out (unless I missed it some where in the thread) that this is a AC thing in 67-68 rather than a standard heater
Think we should split the thread and chase each down individually (motor and fuse box) ?
-
I'll see what I can do but not as easy to photo in my car as on your floor. ;D
Thanks, if you are able...I know it could be difficult to see up there.
Though we're getting off track a bit I only recall seeing that configuration (motor with the hose) on 69 with the power vent option (plus other Ford applications)
Guess should be spelled out (unless I missed it some where in the thread) that this is a AC thing in 67-68 rather than a standard heater
Think we should split the thread and chase each down individually (motor and fuse box) ?
Yes, I saw I was off topic a bit and wondered if there might be another way but the pictures were here in this thread regarding the '67 relay plate and I noticed it was different a little in how it mounts. If a split is chosen to do, maybe we could include related photos to the relay plate for '67 and not include what has been referred to as a Z plate on the 68 (and possibly later 67's with the Z plate under the fuse block?)
-
It is a bit blurry but the best I can do.
-
It is a bit blurry but the best I can do.
Thanks Marty! I know the area is extremely congested and as suspected, I cannot really make out how the relay plate is secured to the wiper motor bracket (or screwed down to wiper motor bracket). It actually looks as though your relay bracket is bent out to more or less flat, taking the 90 degree bend as seen in my example out of it. (possibly for easier access to a failed relay?) Curiously, I have seen this elsewhere in some pictures another member emailed me of his Convenience Control Details. Kinda like "Great, more confusion ???." Nonetheless, the picture does show the same items I have on the relay bracket, mounted in the same arrangement (which I had also confirmed as the best possible match to what the assembly manual indicated along with following my rather lousy images I took of the area when I took mine apart)
For reponding the the OP's inquiry of the "Z-plate" found mounted behind and with the fuse panel (known to be correct for 68's, not known yet as correct for any 67), hopefully, I'm not muddying the waters any more about that...
My inquiries for pictures of Marty's 11/4/66 San Jose example and previously showing pictures of my 11/2/66 SJ example, are to add to the discussion of "the correct relay bracket AND the correct mounting location of this relay bracket found on certain 67's".
Since the 67's have so many running changes AND I happen to have recently been working on these very parts to ready them for reassembly, I have my relay bracket pre-assembled, partially already secured to the wiper motor assembly & bracket (as pictured earlier) For screwing the plate down onto the wiper motor bracket, I simply used the only two holes existing already on my original wiper motor bracket. (By the way, those holes look to be spaced the same distance apart as the holes in a Fog Light circuit breaker, as if Ford intended for a"Fog Lights Only car" to have the Fog light breaker screwed directly onto the wiper motor bracket WITHOUT even using the relay plate on cars not having either Convenience Group option and/or Tilt-Away Wheel.)
I understand that John, (67gta289) has taken a few parts from salvaged cars over the years. Maybe he has some more light to shed in this dark and congested area of "how does the relay bracket secure to the wiper motor bracket". Honestly, by reading his earlier comment, it looks as though the Dearborn & New Jersey examples he has seen or dismantled, this relay bracket may have been mounted differently onto the wiper motor. Maybe a trend? Maybe a running change? I couldn't say but it may help others sort things out on their examples.
-
Hope these are still related to the subject being discussed
Don't have allot of underdash shots but found a couple of original AC 67s that appear not to have the plate to the side of the fuse box
San Jose - 7F03C1291xx Same car as in one of the unrestored example threads
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-290416222713-56051293.jpeg)
Haven't looked through the Shelbys for more San Jose specific examples - just the two I found at this point
-
Since the 67's have so many running changes AND I happen to have recently been working on these very parts to ready them for reassembly, I have my relay bracket pre-assembled, partially already secured to the wiper motor assembly & bracket (as pictured earlier) For screwing the plate down onto the wiper motor bracket, I simply used the only two holes existing already on my original wiper motor bracket. (By the way, those holes look to be spaced the same distance apart as the holes in a Fog Light circuit breaker, as if Ford intended for a"Fog Lights Only car" to have the Fog light breaker screwed directly onto the wiper motor bracket WITHOUT even using the relay plate on cars not having either Convenience Group option and/or Tilt-Away Wheel.)
I understand that John, (67gta289) has taken a few parts from salvaged cars over the years. Maybe he has some more light to shed in this dark and congested area of "how does the relay bracket secure to the wiper motor bracket". Honestly, by reading his earlier comment, it looks as though the Dearborn & New Jersey examples he has seen or dismantled, this relay bracket may have been mounted differently onto the wiper motor. Maybe a trend? Maybe a running change? I couldn't say but it may help others sort things out on their examples.
Richard,
I have from an original 67 SJ GT no AC no tilt no deluxe belts (thus fog lamp CB only) a Z plate that was mounted on the wiper motor bracket, and the CB was mounted to the plate.
I also have from a 67 Dearborn car, AC and tilt and convenience control, the same Z plate mounted the same way to the wiper motor bracket.
Also my Dec 66 SJ was the same way.
I've never seen a 67 with the plate attached to/near the fuse panel.
Do the pictures below help?
-
Richard,
I have from an original 67 SJ GT no AC no tilt no deluxe belts (thus fog lamp CB only) a Z plate that was mounted on the wiper motor bracket, and the CB was mounted to the plate.
I also have from a 67 Dearborn car, AC and tilt and convenience control, the same Z plate mounted the same way to the wiper motor bracket.
Also my Dec 66 SJ was the same way.
I've never seen a 67 with the plate attached to/near the fuse panel.
Do the pictures below help?
Yes, your pictures are pretty much the same as I have mine setup right now.
Other pictures seem to be what has been confusing me. Maybe it's because of all of the congestion of items in that area and the difficulty of shooting clear pictures, I cannot say. I'll let it go for now and when the time comes, assemble mine as I pictured earlier. (unless I find something else out beforehand)
-
Richard,
I have from an original 67 SJ GT no AC no tilt no deluxe belts (thus fog lamp CB only) a Z plate that was mounted on the wiper motor bracket, and the CB was mounted to the plate.
I also have from a 67 Dearborn car, AC and tilt and convenience control, the same Z plate mounted the same way to the wiper motor bracket.
Also my Dec 66 SJ was the same way.
I've never seen a 67 with the plate attached to/near the fuse panel.
Do the pictures below help?
I agree 67 style plate that hung from the wiper frame was use used with the options that you listed above but if the car only had AC the breaker was hung on the back of the ignition switch. I do not believe that the Z plate located by the fuse panel was used till 68.
-
Opening this back up to associate this with a potential running change for 1967. I believe the "Z" plate discussed is Ford basic part number 14A301 "Bracket - Relay Mounting"
The MPC states that C7ZZ-14A301-A was used "before 4/15/67" while the -B was used "after" that date. The usual disclaimer that the MPC date is often found to be close but not exact for every vehicle across the three assembly plants.
-
Opening this back up to associate this with a potential running change for 1967. I believe the "Z" plate discussed is Ford basic part number 14A301 "Bracket - Relay Mounting"
Guess we're looking also for what the difference (good place to start) between the two versions. We determine what the differences are we can split the topic and make it a running change thread from that point.
-
Guess we're looking also for what the difference (good place to start) between the two versions. We determine what the differences are we can split the topic and make it a running change thread from that point.
Later design like the 68 would mount behind the fuse block, early design attached to the wiper motor bracket.
-
Later design like the 68 would mount behind the fuse block, early design attached to the wiper motor bracket.
+1 Marty
-
Later design like the 68 would mount behind the fuse block, early design attached to the wiper motor bracket.
As of now I have cars built after the date you showed in reply #22. Maybe the change was the bracket design and not the mounting/attachment location
Will look through more pictures