Topic: 65 Assmebly Line V8 Oil Filters

[Bob Gaines]

If the filters were installed when the enines were painted...(makes sense) ...then it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE WHATSOEVER for Ford to go to the time and expense of putting any markings on them.

Any markings on the filters would only serve the purpose of tracability to the manufacturer in case there was any quality issues.

It is my understanding and belief that the oil filters were NOT painted on the engine. First off if painted on the engine the filter would be effectively cemented onto the block making it difficult to remove. That would not be a smart production procedure . Second it would be extremely hard to get a consistent no drip finish on the surface of the filter all the way around the filter the way the engine blocks were quickly and sometimes sparingly painted. We have many stories of these filters being smuggled out of the plants in lunch boxes . It is may understanding they were painted block color (a different time and place) for the purpose of distinguishing them from regular service parts sold to the public in the event of employee theft etc.  I have seen some of these block colored filters with the lower crimped lip closest to the block unpainted on some filters (not all) which would also indicate it being painted separately. I am not sure if that is what i am seeing in the black and white photo posted before or not. Most of the assemblyline black filters I have seen had various stamps on them . Not all the same and a few without. Many of the stamped filters when screwed onto a engine would be in a unlikely position if they had to be stamped on the engine.  I haven't seen any 66 ones unfortunately but the many 67-69 ones I have seen were consistent with the 65 ones I have seen in paint coverage etc.  Of course the 67 -60 big block ones I have seen although block color had to be painted at another time since the oil filter adapter on a BB is not painted. I am confident the 65 BB filters were black also.This helps explain the earlier cars also . Just some of my opinions based on observations . Bob

[J_Speegle]

Only place I would differ Bob is that to me it would make more sense to have a filter in place or mask over the area where the oil filter would go since Ford didn't like paint on mating surfaces. Believe there are enough original examples indicating something was there to keep the gasket mating surface free of paint like other surfaces on the block

 A moot point if the filters were not in place, but paint would never get to the surface (due to the gasket being in from the outer edge of the filter) so no way it could get "cemented to the block" with paint. Painted plenty on the block and never got much if any on the side of the gasket.

Don't disagree on the bigger subject since I have not seen as many original cars that never got an oil change


Come to think of it there is a 70 or so instructions for painting engine blocks somewhere in all my papers. Will have to did it out and see if it has anything to share.

[Bob Gaines]

Only place I would differ Bob is that to me it would make more sense to have a filter in place or mask over the area where the oil filter would go since Ford didn't like paint on mating surfaces. Believe there are enough original examples indicating something was there to keep the gasket mating surface free of paint like other surfaces on the block

 A moot point if the filters were not in place, but paint would never get to the surface (due to the gasket being in from the outer edge of the filter) so no way it could get "cemented to the block" with paint. Painted plenty on the block and never got much if any on the side of the gasket.

Don't disagree on the bigger subject since I have not seen as many original cars that never got an oil change


Come to think of it there is a 70 or so instructions for painting engine blocks somewhere in all my papers. Will have to did it out and see if it has anything to share.

Jeff , for my explanation to have merit, the filter if painted on the block would not have to get paint on the mating surfaces to make it difficult to remove. I have had many filters which were not painted on the block that were so tight and difficult to remove it was impossible to remove by hand and a filter wrench had to be employed to break it loose. There have been times when I have collapsed the side wall of a filter because I have had to twist so hard with a filter wrench. With that said if a filter is screwed onto the block tight and then painted on the block the paint that accumulates on the sides at the intersection where the two items meet adds extra "cement" between the block and the filter. Depending on how much paint accumulates ,it could take substantial more effort to remove then without any paint sticking in that area at all. It would make it more difficult to remove if painted then if not painted is the point I was making. Any extra effort to remove the filter would not be wanted by Ford engineers.  I believe a mask was used in that area for this reason just at was used in that area on BB engines. I would like to remind that the big block engine filters were not like the unpainted Autolite or Rotunda filters but block color just like the small block ones and the big block filters were certainly not painted on the block. I hope this explains my point of view better.Bob 

[bryancobb]

Mr. Gaines,

If I may humbly interject my two cents worth...

Decisions about when to install the filters and what paint procedure would be used would be almost certainly a speed/convenience/labor cost decision.  I would suspect that the Industrial Engineer setting up the engine painting procedure, used a partial thought process something like this:

Hey! we can screw on the ugly black or naked filters and shoot them engine color when the engine is being sprayed with almost ZERO additional paint.
That will also take care of masking off the gasket mating surface too.
It may add 2 seconds to the allocated time for engine spraying of 35 seconds.
NO paint will get under the lip because the painter's gun cannot direct the paint up in there.

Knowing the engine assembly process works, and personally watching them paint assembly-line
engines at the Yanmar factory near here,  I have confidence that the filters were on when the engines were painted
and most of them had no stamped markings.  There would be very little value in identifying lot number or production
date on filters after installation.

[jwc66k]

Bryan, your logic is impeccable.
Jim

[bryancobb]

...Come to think of it there is a 70 or so instructions for painting engine blocks somewhere in all my papers. Will have to did it out and see if it has anything to share...

I'd be willing to bet that document will support my 2 cents worth.

[bryancobb]

It is my understanding and belief that the oil filters were NOT painted on the engine. First off if painted on the engine the filter would be effectively cemented onto the block making it difficult to remove. That would not be a smart production procedure . Second it would be extremely hard to get a consistent no drip finish on the surface of the filter all the way around the filter the way the engine blocks were quickly and sometimes sparingly painted. We have many stories of these filters being smuggled out of the plants in lunch boxes . It is may understanding they were painted block color (a different time and place) for the purpose of distinguishing them from regular service parts sold to the public in the event of employee theft etc.  I have seen some of these block colored filters with the lower crimped lip closest to the block unpainted on some filters (not all) which would also indicate it being painted separately. I am not sure if that is what i am seeing in the black and white photo posted before or not. Most of the assemblyline black filters I have seen had various stamps on them . Not all the same and a few without. Many of the stamped filters when screwed onto a engine would be in a unlikely position if they had to be stamped on the engine.  I haven't seen any 66 ones unfortunately but the many 67-69 ones I have seen were consistent with the 65 ones I have seen in paint coverage etc.  Of course the 67 -60 big block ones I have seen although block color had to be painted at another time since the oil filter adapter on a BB is not painted. I am confident the 65 BB filters were black also.This helps explain the earlier cars also . Just some of my opinions based on observations . Bob

"if painted on the engine the filter would be effectively cemented onto the block making it difficult to remove."
--   No way paint could be sprayed up under there without wasting A LOT of time.

"it would be extremely hard to get a consistent no drip finish on the surface of the filter all the way around the filter"
--  Not even a concern.  Drips and runs would be the norm, and acceptable but not preferred.

"blocks were quickly and sometimes sparingly painted."
--  Always true!  I'll bet 15 to 30 seconds max!  Paint was expensive.  Used as sparingly as possible.

"We have many stories of these filters being smuggled out of the plants in lunch boxes...I have seen some of these block colored filters with the lower crimped lip closest to the block unpainted"
--  It would be sensible for Assembly-Line filters from the manufacturer to be ordered and supplied to Ford, with a light coat of engine color coating, to prevent rust, and specified in the purchase order to have NO
     PAINT near the rubber gasket end.  This engine color base coat would save Ford money because it would take less paint to cover the filter as the engine was being sprayed after filter installation.

"for the purpose of distinguishing them from regular service parts sold to the public in the event of employee theft etc."
--  Either way, if 1000 were stolen, 1000 would never be caught if they ever successfully left the plant with them.

"Many of the stamped filters when screwed onto a engine would be in a unlikely position if they had to be stamped on the engine"
--  There would be absolutely NO reason for filters to have any markings after painting the engine.  My suggestion is that  ALL filters with stamped markings were as supplied from the filter manufacturer and NOT as 
     they were after the engines were painted.

[C5ZZKGT]

Bryan, I have to agree with your logic as well. What got me started was the $250.00 one from Ebay some 4 years ago......
-I am running a common FL-1A on my '65 K code engine, painted block color (Black) with the stamp applied that I had made-it works for me and all things considered it only cost me about $5.00 total to make-just that it doesn't have the double crimp-I stamped it twice-180* from each other and have found that useful in installing it so the stamp can be read.

[Bob Gaines]

Mr. Gaines,

If I may humbly interject my two cents worth...

Decisions about when to install the filters and what paint procedure would be used would be almost certainly a speed/convenience/labor cost decision.  I would suspect that the Industrial Engineer setting up the engine painting procedure, used a partial thought process something like this:

Hey! we can screw on the ugly black or naked filters and shoot them engine color when the engine is being sprayed with almost ZERO additional paint.
That will also take care of masking off the gasket mating surface too.
It may add 2 seconds to the allocated time for engine spraying of 35 seconds.
NO paint will get under the lip because the painter's gun cannot direct the paint up in there.

Knowing the engine assembly process works, and personally watching them paint assembly-line
engines at the Yanmar factory near here,  I have confidence that the filters were on when the engines were painted
and most of them had no stamped markings.  There would be very little value in identifying lot number or production
date on filters after installation.

What engines are painted at the Yanmar factory near you?  We have provenance for the yellow stamp being on the 65 filters which is common that the Ford parts are marked in some way. The 65 filters with the yellow stamps are assemblyline units that are different then ones sold by dealers and for retail. I have observed the filters with the yellow stamps on NOS crate engines .There are examples of similar assemblyline type filters that are used for 66-69 filters as well. You may not be familiar with big block engines but the oil filter adapter was not on the engine and a mask was used to keep paint from that surface on the BB engine. That is a very common fact. The pot metal adapter wasn't painted and Ford didn't paint those filters ether. But the filters were still block colored assemblyline type filter. If the paint issue was of no concern as you suggest then the BB engines would be painted filter adapter filter and all . If Ford was able to mask that area on a BIG Block  it would be of no consequence and much easier to mask the SB filter area as well. If there are concerns about paint in the filter area on a big block engine  then why is it hard to imagine no concerns on a small block?   Bob

[PerkinsRestoration]

 I agree with Bob Gaines , the filters were painted prior to installation. Trying to guess how the various engine plants painted their motors during the first generation of Mustangs production is meaningless.The filters came 24 per master pack painted engine color. Some plants during this time frame had a mask that went over the filter during painting process. Some filters had minimal overspray on them. Engines with oil filter/cooler adaptors that were natural had no overspray period. The filters were always painted prior to installation. I have not seen a blue Autolite filter with the 64-65 style yellow logo, but most blue Autolite assy line filters were date coded with the same orange/red font as the white Autolite service filters. The Blue Autolite assy line filters less the Autolite fancy artwork of the white service filters would also be a cost savings? Engine overspay patterns were not always consistent from factory photos and original cars I've seen even during the same model year.

[svo2scj]

Boy I want to be careful here BUT ........

I very smart person once said to me "to what mileage are you restoring your car to?"  It made me think, step back and consider --  an assembly line filter , with it's dates (and associated costs of today) would be LONG GONE at that first oil change -sometimes done at a dealer BEFORE sale to the public too !

In my case, knowing I had a 55K mile car and that I strive to use only original and not even service parts -STOPPED me . I installed an Autolite filter.  I didn't care about the date - choose a 71 for this 69 car.  (Mostly because I had them)

I have seen the 24 Master pack, I contemplated the $300 filter and in the end I was very happy to put the money and time elsewhere.

Mark
P.S.  To be true to recreating a timeline - should I use a Motorcraft on the next oil change?  That would be "wrong" for a 1969 - but it is what was avail for an oil change in 1979 !

[bryancobb]

What engines are painted at the Yanmar factory near you?    Bob

Yanmar engine assembly plant, Adairsville, GA.


The company I work for did a lot of design and fab work for their 5 or 6 Dyno-Rooms.
I got to watch them assemble, paint, and dyno engines for several weeks.  We fabricated many of their assembly jigs, tooling, and the dolly carts that new engines were transported on from the assembly area to the dyno cells...   BY ROBOTS with magnetic tracks in the floor.

[bryancobb]

...Trying to guess how the various engine plants painted their motors during the first generation of Mustangs production is meaningless...

Mr. Perkins,
Don't the folks in this froum and the concours world spend a significant amount of time and energy, doing precisely that about many aspects of Mustang manufacturing?
I think that's one of the fun parts of this hobby.

Humbly,

[bryancobb]

Oh!  Another job I did at Yanmar, when the company I work for was helping them get up and running, was making an 11ga steel spray mask for mounting surfaces on the blocks ...
...I had to take heavy paper, place it on engine finished surfaces, peck it with a steel object (which cut it) making a paper pattern.  Then I'd scan it and trace it in AutoCAD.  Then we'd burn it out of 11ga on the plasma table and weld on a handle.

[PerkinsRestoration]

Mr. Perkins,
Don't the folks in this froum and the concours world spend a significant amount of time and energy, doing precisely that about many aspects of Mustang manufacturing?
I think that's one of the fun parts of this hobby.

Humbly,

 Brian,
I prefer factual information rather than guessing how it may have been done. There are some great unrestored cars that attend MCA and SAAC national events that answer most technical questions that would arise during a restoration. There are many excellent examples of low mileage cars and crate motors that have original assy line filters. 
                                                                                                      Bob